New Bridge/Interior Designs
- Thread starter EJD1984
- Start date
I'm willing to bet it's a dramatic thing, rather than a scientific one. To take your avatar as a case in point, Spock is still an alien who looks just like a human except for some pointed ears. I'm sure the various scientific implausibilities and impossibilities we all cherish, from the transporter to the warp drive, will be making an appearance.
But he is probably aiming for less stagy acting styles, less theatrical camera work. Bring naturalistic acting where people ad-lib and interrupt each other and behave like normal people to a sci-fi environment. Kind of like Alien.
Sounds plausible.
See, this is one of those "paradigms" that Trek Fans have that are based upon NOTHING but having absorbed the TNG-era technobabble and assuming that reality is in agreement with that.
What, exactly, is a "warp core?" It's a MEANINGLESS TERM.
In the treknology field, warp drive consists of the following main components:
1) A matter/antimatter reactor
2) A power converter system (to convert this into useable energy to run other ship systems)
3) subspace field generators and manipulators.
4) A power distribution system.
In TNG, they refer to the matter antimatter reactor, almost in a "slang" fashion, as the "warp core." But that's more a matter of physical architecture, than of functionality.
The 1701 has a matter antimatter reactor system. This does NOT mean it has, might have had, should have, or COULD have a TNG-style "Warp Core."
Think about what the system DOES, not what it LOOKS LIKE.
The "cluster of cylinders" behind Main Engineering on the 1701 seem to me to be a series of parallel antimatter reactors. Which, to me, is a far superior design concept when compared to a "single-point-of-failure" reactor core.
The power-conversion system on the 1701 would be the two big "transformers" and the later-season "center of engineering block of machinery" which held, among other things, dilithium crystals.
So, did the 1701 have a "warp core?" Nope. But it did have a matter/antimatter reactor assembly. It was just in a different configuration, that's all.
Interestingly, what's posted here is actually fairly consistent with some information I've been made aware of. So I'm not inclined to automatically dismiss this (as I was with the "hinged nacelles" thing).
Nothing's certain, but it's just interesting to see different tidbits of information come together from different sources and SEEM to match up.
My personal interpretation of what's being discussed here would be that you're seeing two minor sets... temporary ones, with neither being the Enterprise bridge. One, I strongly suspect, is a 24th-century ship (likely "Old" Spock's transportation), while the other would be a pre-TOS-era ship (possibly Lieutenant Jim Kirk's posting, or even George Kirk's posting? Could even be a civilian transport...)
The fact that both were on a single stage which was otherwise empty (ish) implies that these were "quick and dirty use" sets, to be used briefly then struck and replaced. Permanent sets are usually built up next to other permanent (or semi-permanent) sets, after all, right?
Remember, I'm not claiming any particular "inside knowledge," just applying basic logic. If you see holes, please feel free to poke 'em.
In a Mirror Darkly showed us that the TOS-era bridge can look perfectly fine in a 21st Century production. I wouldn't be surprised if some changes are made, and as long as they don't do something weird like completely change the bridge layout, I don't see a problem.
Don't forget that the bridge as seen in The Cage actually was MORE advanced with its handsfree "swiping" controls than the bridge with its paper-printer readouts and overhead projector-style monitors that we saw in TOS. So the precedent has already been set for SOME level of inconsistency.
Plus, if the rumors are true, this film will take place during an era of TOS that we saw very little of on television - just Where No Man - so there's probably more wiggleroom than you might think.
Cheers!
Alex
Don't forget that the bridge as seen in The Cage actually was MORE advanced with its handsfree "swiping" controls than the bridge with its paper-printer readouts and overhead projector-style monitors that we saw in TOS. So the precedent has already been set for SOME level of inconsistency.
Plus, if the rumors are true, this film will take place during an era of TOS that we saw very little of on television - just Where No Man - so there's probably more wiggleroom than you might think.
Cheers!
Alex
Actually, the only paper-printer readout is shown in "The Cage," as are the overhead projector-style monitors.
This question might be better suited for the TOS forum, but since the element was mentioned here, I'll ask.
23skidoo, you mentioned the "swiping" controls in "The Cage". I assume you mean the shot where Spock is standing before his station and waves his hand to change the view upon one of the monitors (as he presents a quick overview about the SS Columbia).
For years, shoot, decades, I figured the action was meant to suggest some form of proximity mechanism rather than Spock having to press buttons. However, not too long ago, I swear I came across an alternate shot (a still) of that sequence. The camera is further back and reveals a crewperson sitting at the station. I believe it was the same woman who was seen sitting silently at the station when Pike retrieves his printed hardcopy.
Is it not possible this unnamed "ensign" was actually the person to change the view on the screen, that Spock's motion was merely a gesture for her to "change the slide" so to speak?
I'm sorry; I really wish I could remember where I saw that image! Otherwise, members here will understandably assume I'm just blowing so much smoke out of my @$$. Has ANYONE else seen this alternate shot?
Sincerely,
Bill
23skidoo, you mentioned the "swiping" controls in "The Cage". I assume you mean the shot where Spock is standing before his station and waves his hand to change the view upon one of the monitors (as he presents a quick overview about the SS Columbia).
For years, shoot, decades, I figured the action was meant to suggest some form of proximity mechanism rather than Spock having to press buttons. However, not too long ago, I swear I came across an alternate shot (a still) of that sequence. The camera is further back and reveals a crewperson sitting at the station. I believe it was the same woman who was seen sitting silently at the station when Pike retrieves his printed hardcopy.
Is it not possible this unnamed "ensign" was actually the person to change the view on the screen, that Spock's motion was merely a gesture for her to "change the slide" so to speak?
I'm sorry; I really wish I could remember where I saw that image! Otherwise, members here will understandably assume I'm just blowing so much smoke out of my @$$. Has ANYONE else seen this alternate shot?
Sincerely,
Bill
There's definitely a proximity control used in "Where No Man Has Gone Before," though. Mitchell uses it.
GodThingFormerly
A Different Kind of Asshole
I am forced to disagree. It looks on the DVD like Mitchell is touching the console with the back of his fingers when announcing "open intercraft", which strongly suggests - at least to me - an iPhone style interactive touchscreen.
TGT
I love seeing unused designs, or even design processes where there are dozens if not hundreds of sketches that are all looked at and evolved into the one on screen.
I studied art and design for several years, but i would like, if anything, not to see the Enterprise until at least the closing few minutes of the movie, much like how they did it with Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, where you would sit in anticipation for the big reveal, its only a few minutes, but to wait nearly two hours for that glimpse is priceless, and it pays off.
However, on the designs; I ould like to see something along hte lines of a kinda updating facelift, where as Enterprise: The show trying to flip off TOS, just basically killed its self visually with the sets. They were too like past Treks, needed to be different.
However, for a TOS redesign, id like to see some updates, for instance, the consoles don't have to be all back lit touch panels, they can still be glowing physical buttons, but just tweaked a little so they arnt so, ya know, out. Also remember that during TOS, those jelly bean buttons wernt physical push buttons, they were actually touch sensitive (fictionally wise in the show) buttons. TOS also had a myriad of touch screen buttons also, just takes a beady eye to catch them using them;
The helm and Nav stations are prime examples.
As for the bridge, its a kind of iconic image, but, as said, it needs updating, thats easy, you just alter little bits here and there, smooth a few sharp edges, swoop a few square corners/floor-wall-meetings etc etc, then hey presto, you have a face lift.
Or, just a complete redesign but keep the distinguishing features like the layout intact, and just redesgin it keeping additional elements in place, such as the shape of Kirks chair, and just hint at it with the features on the new one. All these things can make a difference but also, keeping the same feel.
As for other areas, engineering can get away with, because we don't see that set until a few episode into TOS, so it could've looked like the Sistine Chapel for all i care, as it didn't technically exist, so they can do what they wish.
Personally, i don't think the Ent should be in the movie, I'd prefer a good old origin story that builds to maybe mentioning it or something along those lines.
I studied art and design for several years, but i would like, if anything, not to see the Enterprise until at least the closing few minutes of the movie, much like how they did it with Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, where you would sit in anticipation for the big reveal, its only a few minutes, but to wait nearly two hours for that glimpse is priceless, and it pays off.
However, on the designs; I ould like to see something along hte lines of a kinda updating facelift, where as Enterprise: The show trying to flip off TOS, just basically killed its self visually with the sets. They were too like past Treks, needed to be different.
However, for a TOS redesign, id like to see some updates, for instance, the consoles don't have to be all back lit touch panels, they can still be glowing physical buttons, but just tweaked a little so they arnt so, ya know, out. Also remember that during TOS, those jelly bean buttons wernt physical push buttons, they were actually touch sensitive (fictionally wise in the show) buttons. TOS also had a myriad of touch screen buttons also, just takes a beady eye to catch them using them;
The helm and Nav stations are prime examples.
As for the bridge, its a kind of iconic image, but, as said, it needs updating, thats easy, you just alter little bits here and there, smooth a few sharp edges, swoop a few square corners/floor-wall-meetings etc etc, then hey presto, you have a face lift.
Or, just a complete redesign but keep the distinguishing features like the layout intact, and just redesgin it keeping additional elements in place, such as the shape of Kirks chair, and just hint at it with the features on the new one. All these things can make a difference but also, keeping the same feel.
As for other areas, engineering can get away with, because we don't see that set until a few episode into TOS, so it could've looked like the Sistine Chapel for all i care, as it didn't technically exist, so they can do what they wish.
Personally, i don't think the Ent should be in the movie, I'd prefer a good old origin story that builds to maybe mentioning it or something along those lines.
Actually, that's part of what convinced me that the TOS-era helm console was a hybrid system.
Each side (helm and nav) has a row of toggle switches, a set of hard physical buttons, and a flat panel display that also serves as a "touch panel control pad." And, at least on the helm side, there's a fold-up scope stored under this flat panel touchpad device.
I also assume that the "astrogator" is a touch-controlled device, and the big three-pronged "dial" we see on it sometimes (but not always) is actually a displayed element, not a physical dial.
See, it doesn't require reinvention, or even argument. All of this was always there, even if we didn't necessarily see it USED that way often.
As I watch the remastered Trek DVDs now, I note that it's still not clear that the "window frames" on the bridge displays are anything but the 23rd-century-equivalent of the faux-3D window frames we see on our computer displays. In Pike's era, the "display theme" was black background, and Kirk left it that way up until after WNMHGB, but afterwards, the "theme" was changed to a blue-grey background with sky-blue "frames" around the displayed windows.
Seeing it all in uber-hi-res, for the first time, is just demonstrating to me that the original design really is a LOT better than it sometimes gets referred to. If it weren't for the silly colored lights above the rim consoles, there's be NOTHING dated about that set, IMHO.
Except that while we see Spock gesturing and the image changing, what was actually filmed was that there was a woman seated at the console whom he was signaling with his gesture, not a Klatuu style hand-wavium control.
Click here to go to the page, then scroll down once and click the bottom of the four film frames (Spock at the science station). When it appears in the Guardian, click on the Guardian to see the full image (honestly, I hate how many steps it takes to get to the images on this site now). There's the woman who's actually controlling the display.
Thats what i was trying to say, but it sounds better from you.
The Helm/Nav console in Early Kirk/Piker era had toch buttons on backlit panels. It was there all the time, just hardly used, then we get all these people saying that TOS had all these flip switched and push buttons etc, but in reality, it didnt, these touch panels were there.
Speaking of all this, do you remember my TOS bridge chair project in the art forum a while back, Gary? Well, i kinda tried out different ways to update TOS in a non-evasive way by adding interactive displays on the chair arms, they wernt flashy LCARS bollocks, but nice neat updates that used the aesthetic of TOS display/readouts so they fit in nicely with out sticking out.
Heres an example;
On the right hand arm, i envisioned a display that is left and right handed friendly, this is reminiscent of TNG with the changing LCARS, where the user can swap function sides to suit themselves.
This shows a menu for past log entries and options to view, add, delete etc. Also notice that they are keeping with the TOS design elements.
Heres the original TOS production arm, its the same classic panel seen in pretty much every episode.
Heres a front view of the updated arm, notice all the function switches and "Tape Deck" have been removed, and in its a place a flush clear readout with no physical controls.
Close up so as to read whats on the display.
And here, another VERY subtle update, labeling the function switches, not evasive, not in your face, just little details that could've always been there and you just hadn't noticed. Again, with this idea, i envisioned these could be changed, the labels in this i imagined being projected, all part of one big computer system.
Now the above is labeled using the McMaster blueprints, its a bit dangerous having the emergency hull separation switch next to the chair adjustments, but i was being a purist following what was written down.
Sorry, didnt mean to hijack your thread, i just thought itd be interesting to see what everyone thought of my updates to a timeless icon.
