New Bashir stories?

[Therin of Andor]

It would have been nice to have Arex and M'Ress stick around

Well, we'd come out of the Richard Arnold era. He had insisted they be removed from Peter David's DC Comics TOS Series II storylines and the characters were put into limbo.

A few years later, John Ordover suggested to PAD that, now that RA was gone, Arex and M'Ress would be quite at home in "New Frontier". Had PAD been writing a TOS era series of novels, I'm sure he'd have been making use of Arex and M'Ress, but he seized the opportunity to use them again. It wasn't as if other authors had clamoured to use them themselves.

so we could get to know them better in the novels.

We are "getting to know them in the novels": "New Frontier" novels.

For the longest time, TOS novelists had many chances to use Arex and M'Ress associating with TOS cast members. But they didn't. Thank goodness for the snippets throughout Alan Dean Foster's "ST Logs". Arex and M'Ress got a very brief cameo in "The Galactic Whirlpool" by David Gerrold. Arex got a briefer name drop in "Time for Yesterday", thanks to AC Crispin. M'Ress probably should have been in "Uhura's Song", but Janet Kagan had never watched TAS.

It seemed that it was only after PAD started using them in NF that other authors' interests were piqued: "Mirror Eyes" in "Tales of the Dominion War"; "Ex Machina"; and "Crucible: Spock: The Fire and the Rose".

 

[Christopher]

It seemed that it was only after PAD started using them in NF that other authors' interests were piqued: "Mirror Eyes" in "Tales of the Dominion War"; "Ex Machina"; and "Crucible: Spock: The Fire and the Rose".

I would've referenced them in Ex Machina anyway. The only reason that came after NF is because I didn't become a Trek novelist until after NF came along. There's no cause and effect.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I would've referenced them in Ex Machina anyway. The only reason that came after NF is because I didn't become a Trek novelist until after NF came along. There's no cause and effect.

Yeah, of course - although if you'd tried to do it between 1998-1991, it would have been quashed.

 

[Rush Limborg]

How the heck did we transform a Bashir thread into an Arex/M'Ress thread?

 

[Therin of Andor]

How the heck did we transform a Bashir thread into an Arex/M'Ress thread?

Just pulling your leg, leg, leg. No 'arm, 'arm, 'arm done.

 

[DrBashir]

How the heck did we transform a Bashir thread into an Arex/M'Ress thread?

It ain't easy but it seems to happen all the time

 

[Therin of Andor]

It ain't easy but it seems to happen all the time

Most TrekBBS threads get animated (or two-dimensional?) eventually.

 

[DrBashir]

It seemed that it was only after PAD started using them in NF that other authors' interests were piqued: "Mirror Eyes" in "Tales of the Dominion War"; "Ex Machina"; and "Crucible: Spock: The Fire and the Rose".

I would've referenced them in Ex Machina anyway. The only reason that came after NF is because I didn't become a Trek novelist until after NF came along. There's no cause and effect.

Was there any reason you didn't reference them or use them in Ex Machina (great novel, btw)? M'Ress doesn't disappear until 2296 and Arex disappears in 2305. Both of them would have still been around when Ex macina was set.

Is there some sort of unwritten rule about not using certain characters in two different time periods or did it simply not work out?

 

[DrBashir]

It would have been nice to have Arex and M'Ress stick around

Well, we'd come out of the Richard Arnold era. He had insisted they be removed from Peter David's DC Comics TOS Series II storylines and the characters were put into limbo.

A few years later, John Ordover suggested to PAD that, now that RA was gone, Arex and M'Ress would be quite at home in "New Frontier". Had PAD been writing a TOS era series of novels, I'm sure he'd have been making use of Arex and M'Ress, but he seized the opportunity to use them again. It wasn't as if other authors had clamoured to use them themselves.

so we could get to know them better in the novels.

We are "getting to know them in the novels": "New Frontier" novels.

For the longest time, TOS novelists had many chances to use Arex and M'Ress associating with TOS cast members. But they didn't. Thank goodness for the snippets throughout Alan Dean Foster's "ST Logs". Arex and M'Ress got a very brief cameo in "The Galactic Whirlpool" by David Gerrold. Arex got a briefer name drop in "Time for Yesterday", thanks to AC Crispin. M'Ress probably should have been in "Uhura's Song", but Janet Kagan had never watched TAS.

It seemed that it was only after PAD started using them in NF that other authors' interests were piqued: "Mirror Eyes" in "Tales of the Dominion War"; "Ex Machina"; and "Crucible: Spock: The Fire and the Rose".

But I've given up on NF and it appears that it may be coming to an end soon. With NF being sort a "walled garden" with the exception of very brief cameos and mentions perhaps Arex & M'Ress can move over to the main book continuity and get some proper exposure. As mucha s I'd like to read more about them I'm totally burned out on Peter David, especially after Before Dishonor.

 

[JD]

It seemed that it was only after PAD started using them in NF that other authors' interests were piqued: "Mirror Eyes" in "Tales of the Dominion War"; "Ex Machina"; and "Crucible: Spock: The Fire and the Rose".

I would've referenced them in Ex Machina anyway. The only reason that came after NF is because I didn't become a Trek novelist until after NF came along. There's no cause and effect.

Was there any reason you didn't reference them or use them in Ex Machina (great novel, btw)? M'Ress doesn't disappear until 2296 and Arex disappears in 2305. Both of them would have still been around when Ex macina was set.

Is there some sort of unwritten rule about not using certain characters in two different time periods or did it simply not work out?

Not at all, we had two books with Elias Vaughn set between the prologue of Generations, and the beginning of TNG while the DS9Relaunch was still going strong.

 

[Christopher]

I would've referenced them in Ex Machina anyway. The only reason that came after NF is because I didn't become a Trek novelist until after NF came along. There's no cause and effect.

Was there any reason you didn't reference them or use them in Ex Machina (great novel, btw)? M'Ress doesn't disappear until 2296 and Arex disappears in 2305. Both of them would have still been around when Ex macina was set.

You misunderstand my comment. I did reference Arex and M'Ress in Ex Machina, early on when McCoy is thinking about the multispecies post-TMP crew and reflecting that his job was easier when he only had three nonhumans, Spock, Arex, and M'Ress, to worry about. I also referenced Arex again later on when explaining why Chekov was absent from the ship during TAS. What I was saying to Therin was that I would've still referenced them in ExM even if New Frontier had never used them, because he was incorrect to suggest that my use of them in ExM was somehow triggered by PAD's earlier use of them in NF.

 

[DrBashir]

But Vaughn was created for just such a purpose, a character who was present (seemingly) at all the big events in the past yet still on active duty in the 24th century. That was part of his schtick. We're always going to have stories with Vaughn that are set in the past as well as the present.

I'm wondering about having the same character being used in two different ongoing series set in different time periods, not a one shot story covering part of a characters past.

 

[DrBashir]

I would've referenced them in Ex Machina anyway. The only reason that came after NF is because I didn't become a Trek novelist until after NF came along. There's no cause and effect.

Was there any reason you didn't reference them or use them in Ex Machina (great novel, btw)? M'Ress doesn't disappear until 2296 and Arex disappears in 2305. Both of them would have still been around when Ex macina was set.

You misunderstand my comment. I did reference Arex and M'Ress in Ex Machina, early on when McCoy is thinking about the multispecies post-TMP crew and reflecting that his job was easier when he only had three nonhumans, Spock, Arex, and M'Ress, to worry about. I also referenced Arex again later on when explaining why Chekov was absent from the ship during TAS. What I was saying to Therin was that I would've still referenced them in ExM even if New Frontier had never used them, because he was incorrect to suggest that my use of them in ExM was somehow triggered by PAD's earlier use of them in NF.

Gotcha. I did misread it.

Did you ever give any thought to having Arex and M'Ress as part of the crew? If yes, what changed your mind about having them aboard? If no, why not? They would have been great additions.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Was there any reason you didn't reference them or use them in Ex Machina (great novel, btw)?

But he did.

M'Ress doesn't disappear until 2296

Remember, PAD made an serious error (in "Cold Wars") with M'Ress's disappearance, but KRAD corrected the date in a "New Frontier" timeline. PAD wildly miscalculated when Ceti Alpha VI exploded, IIRC, but he should have had M'Ress vanish somewhere between ST IV (2286) and ST V, so she could still appear in the DC TOS Series I comics which he, himself, had been writing when the hiatus fell upon him.

Actually, KRAD gives the date as 2294 in the timeline he compiled for "No Limits", the same year Montgomery Scott and Matt Franklin place themselves in transporter stasis, so the date works fine for her time jump of 82 years.

Is there some sort of unwritten rule about not using certain characters in two different time periods or did it simply not work out?

Richard Arnold introduced a rule, early in in 1989, that "the animated series does not cross over with the movie series", and that's why Arex and M'Ress inexplicably disappear (and were redrawn as new characters) before DC TOS Series II. But that rule vanished when Gene Roddenberry died in September 1991.

Arex & M'Ress can move over to the main book continuity and get some proper exposure.

What's "proper exposure"? Both characters were right in the thick of the Ensign Janos mystery, Arex recently lost an arm in battle and M'ress had her problems with Gleau. They also appeared in PAD's mini-series for IDW. I've been very happy with their participation in NF. IDW has also given them things to do in the TOS Year 4 comics.

 

[DrBashir]

Was there any reason you didn't reference them or use them in Ex Machina (great novel, btw)?

But he did.

M'Ress doesn't disappear until 2296

Remember, PAD made an serious error (in "Cold Wars") with M'Ress's disappearance, but KRAD corrected the date in a "New Frontier" timeline. PAD wildly miscalculated when Ceti Alpha VI exploded, IIRC, but he should have had M'Ress vanish somewhere between ST IV (2286) and ST V, so she could still appear in the DC TOS Series I comics which he, himself, had been writing when the hiatus fell upon him.

Actually, KRAD gives the date as 2294 in the timeline he compiled for "No Limits", the same year Montgomery Scott and Matt Franklin place themselves in transporter stasis.

Is there some sort of unwritten rule about not using certain characters in two different time periods or did it simply not work out?

Richard Arnold introduced a rule, early in in 1989, that "the animated series does not cross over with the movie series", and that's why Arex and M'Ress inexplicably disappear (and were redrawn as new characters) before DC TOS Series II. But that rule vanished when Gene Roddenberry died in September 1991.

I didn't recall the details of M'Ress' disapperance and simply went with what memory Beta gave. Wasn't familiar with KRAD's timeline so I'm not sure which one Memory Beta was using.

I know that RA didn't permit the animated characters to appear in the novels but both NF and Ex Machina were written well after that restriction went away and so I didn't even consider that as a possibility.

The problem is that they're stuck in the Peter David pocket universe, unable to interact with the universe at large while the other characters ahve a number of authors working on them. And the whole Janos thing was a large part of why I gave up on NF. (Morgan Primus was another large part). We've had a Horta and a Mugatu as crew members. What next, one of the flying parasites? A tribble? A relative of Spock's dead shelat?

 

[Therin of Andor]

I know that RA didn't permit the animated characters to appear in the novels but both NF and Ex Machina were written well after that restriction went away and so I didn't even consider that as a possibility.

Well, you've answered your own question then. "Is there some sort of unwritten rule about not using certain characters in two different time periods...?"

No, there are plenty of examples of characters who continue to appear in more than one time period at a time: Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scott, Arex, M'Ress, Guinan, Vaughn, Akaar, Kor, Kang, Koloth, Dax...

The problem is that they're stuck in the Peter David pocket universe, unable to interact with the universe at large

They can appear in any TOS novel right up to ST V and beyond. That very few novelists choose to use them is another matter altogether. Not PAD's fault.

a Horta

Delightfully brought to life by Diane Duane.

a Mugatu as crew members

As revealed in "Stone and Anvil", he resembled a Mugatu but was sentient - and was also part Caitian, and had the genes of several other races.

 

[DrBashir]

As revealed in "Stone and Anvil", he resembled a Mugatu but was sentient - and was also part Caitian, and had the genes of several other races.

Is that not a retcon though? I recall reading something to the effect that PAD was forced to change janos from an actual Mugatu to the hybred he ended up being.

And if he's not an actual Mugatu how is it responsible to release a genetically altered animal onto a planet that he is not native to? Just because he looks like Mugatu?

 

[Therin of Andor]

Is that not a retcon though? I recall reading something to the effect that PAD was forced to change janos from an actual Mugatu to the hybred he ended up being.

Well, we'll probably never know for sure. PAD wanted us to be initially curious about whether all mugatus were sentient or not, and he deliberately didn't answer the question. Then-Viacom Licensing requested that all references to the species be removed, from the novel in which he first appeared, but one was accidentally left in - and then a Minipedia entry accepted that he was, indeed, a mugatu. Whether PAD always intended to reveal that Janos was a unique scientific experiment, when he first wrote him, is known only to PAD.

And if he's not an actual Mugatu how is it responsible to release a genetically altered animal onto a planet that he is not native to? Just because he looks like Mugatu?

Maybe they neutered him first? Maybe he was already sterile (like a Terran mule)?

 

[DrBashir]

But he's not a Mugatu. Why would they release him on a planet that he's not native to? And when they see that he retains some memory (the judo throw) they still just leave him? What if his memory comes back? All for a "Born Free" moment?

 

[Therin of Andor]

But he's not a Mugatu. Why would they release him on a planet that he's not native to? And when they see that he retains some memory (the judo throw) they still just leave him? What if his memory comes back? All for a "Born Free" moment?

Ask Peter David. The scenes on Neural brought tears to my eyes so it worked for me.