Nemesis

[Bishop76]

lol - first, let me emphasize that I think TFF is crap as well. The only reason it ranks higher than NEM in my book is because the antagonist (Sybok) had a clear goal that he was working towards and the movie followed basic logic patterns of A leads to B leads to C - NEM couldn't be bothered with even that level of internal consistency, not to mention all the external consistencies it botched. But really, when it comes right down to it we're comparing which pile of shit smells worse.

 

[Satyrquaze]

Yeah, but NEM had an awesome space battle.

 

[BlobVanDam]

Yeah, but NEM had an awesome space battle.

As completely stupid a decision as it was for oh so many reasons, smashing the Enterprise into the other ship alone makes it a better movie than TFF. I likes carnage.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

I used to love TFF when I was a kid. Before I started with the whole "wait a sec, how can it be that..." thing. Thinking sucks.

 

[Grid-Sec]

It astounds me that in all four a TNG movies there's a countdown to some kind of explosion thingy at theend. What'd they do? Base all four movies on that concept, and work the story around it? Nemesis could've been amazing. They already did a similar concept on DS9: Have an already adult Picard in almost the entire movie turn out to be a clone working for the Dominion. Picard is held captive by a faction of the Dominion wanting a little revenge on the Federation, so they put the blame on Romulans. They both get wise to the Dominion, and you have this epic battle with Federation, and Romulan ships against the last regs of the Dominion, and the Jem'Hedar. Hell, you could have Weyoun be the main villain in the movie! So you've got established villains, a motive for them, and a way to cap off the 24th century in a good way. But noooo. They go with a dune buggy chase, a mystery other Data, and the Remans, whom we've never seen before, so there's no real stake, or emotion for their story.

 

[SchwEnt]

And to think, they did all the things to address what people had been saying...

It's all getting too stale, franchise fatigue, same old, same old.

So they brought in new blood--a new director, a new writer. A writer who was rumored to understand and love ST, both people with filmmaking experience and good credentials.

It's what people said they wanted, a new approach, a fresh take on it.

And Nemesis sucked anyway.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

And to think that Weyoun could have been in it.....

 

[Too Much Fun]

As I'm fond of saying, "just because it's different doesn't mean it's good". That guy Baird had no business directing a Star Trek movie. I'm not saying a movie editor can't be a good director. While he hasn't done anything good in awhile, Barry Sonnefeld proved what a solid director an editor can be with his Addams Family movies, "Get Shorty" and "Men In Black".

Baird had only done "Executive Decision" (I don't know how good it is since I never saw it, but it's just a throwaway action movie), so I don't understand what the hell made the studio think this experience qualified him for the task of directing a Star Trek movie.

John Logan, however...you can't really blame them for that. The guy had just won an Oscar for writing. Maybe he just can't write Star Trek for shit, even if he is capable of writing well. Maybe Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner negatively influencing his story was a factor. Stick to what you know, guys...acting!

Raytas, I was just thinking about how much sense it would make for Jeffrey Combs to be in a Star Trek movie. I remember this interview with him where he talked about how as much as he enjoyed being a guest star in the various series, he always wanted to be a regular. He would have been if "Star Trek: Enterprise" got another season. He may not have the pedigree of the actors usually cast as Star Trek villains, but I definitely think he would be a great choice for a future movie.

 

[JarodRussell]

JJ Abrams only had Mission Impossible 3, and a couple of TV episodes in entirely different genres.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Raytas, I was just thinking about how much sense it would make for Jeffrey Combs to be in a Star Trek movie. I remember this interview with him where he talked about how as much as he enjoyed being a guest star in the various series, he always wanted to be a regular. He would have been if "Star Trek: Enterprise" got another season. He may not have the pedigree of the actors usually cast as Star Trek villains, but I definitely think he would be a great choice for a future movie.

That guy is made of win...all ST episodes with him in it were better than the rest imo.

 

[Too Much Fun]

JJ Abrams may have only directed one movie before "Star Trek", but as producer on two of the most successful shows of the 2000s (one of them being a huge pop culture phenomenon), he clearly had way more success than the director of "Star Trek: Nemesis" had going into it.

 

[RyuRoots]

JJ Abrams may have only directed one movie before "Star Trek", but as producer on two of the most successful shows of the 2000s (one of them being a huge pop culture phenomenon), he clearly had way more success than the director of "Star Trek: Nemesis" had going into it.

And Star Trek XI came off as something that liked TOS, enjoyed referencing it and playing with it, and paying homage to it. Nemesis is, IMO, like Endgame in that it's a horrible finale and a slap to the face since I loved these characters and that show. It's absolutely astonishing to me that we have "the Romulan movie", and they ditch the Romulans almost entirely in favor of a new generic "we are all evil and all LOOK evil" alien race led by Picard's mini-me.

They throw out the mythos almost entirely in favor of some crap no one cares about. I still maintain that they should've quit while they were ahead and ended the TNG films with First Contact (and I liked Generations too, but I know I'm in the minority). It was a great movie with a lot of fanservice, and it even ended with a cool shot on the bridge of every TNG main character!

As a sidenote, I TOTALLY agree that actors should stick to acting. Stewart and Spiner...I love you guys as actors, but if Nemesis is a sign of what their involvement does, then ugh, stay away from the scripts. That's even worse than the notion that Shatner balking is why Sulu doesn't completely save the day in TUC (though I dunno if that's true or not).

 

[JarodRussell]

Or maybe they should have made Nemesis a 150 million dollar TNG movie directed by JJ Abrams? With Eric Bana as the villain instead of Nonamedude? And a super bowl spot?

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Nonamedude isn't that noname at all....that is so not the reason why NEM is made of fail and STXI of win.... and please, bear in mind that I like NEM despite its quality.

 

[JarodRussell]

Nonamedude isn't that noname at all....that is so not the reason why NEM is made of fail and STXI of win.... and please, bear in mind that I like NEM despite its quality.

Nonamedude was a noname back then, and still is less known than Eric Bana, I'd say.

Not having a big name in the antagonist role is one of the financial failing reasons of Nemesis, imo.

 

[AriesIV]

Quick changes:

Make the landing-party/dune-buggy scene actually relevant to the story. Some kind of scientific expedition gone wrong or rescue mission or something.

Randomly discovered Data-Copy... nix. Have Data dabble in procreation again. This time a son.

Clone Picard... ok fine. Leader of a slave revolt is ok... but make the damn fool LOOK LIKE PICARD AND SOMEWHAT ACT LIKE HIM TOO! SHEESH.

Make GonzoPicard actually have a real motivation for hating X Y or Z. "because I am full of rage" is a stupid fucking motivation. Ok he hates the Romulans for what they did to him and how they oppressed the Remans. That's good! We have a coherent plot forming.

So he kills the Romulan government with his toy. Installs himself and is promplt deposed by the Tal Shiar. Steals a prototype Ubermech Battleship and decimates the Romulan fleets with it.

He then turns the weapon on Romulas and the Enterprise fights him to a standstill. Ramming/boarding action.

Wesley Crusher and Data lead a boarding party to disable the Doomsday Thingy. Wesley is killed in the initial firefight. Data is "damaged." He presses on anyway and sacrifices himself to destroy the Doomsday Thingy.

Have several other characters make heroic sacrifices in the course of the battle. Troi strains her empathic abilities to the point she becomes "deaf." Worf loses a limb during the boarding action. Have Riker get his pecker shot off... I mean how about he loses an eye. Come up with something.

In the end everyone is sitting around discussing... finally after many generations there will be a lasting peace with the Romulans... but at such a steep price.

Deep below decks Data's "son" starts whistling a familiar tune.

Roll credits.




***


AS IT WAS I enjoyed the movie but it would have been better if the E-E and Data were sacrificed to save the Romulans thus securing a lasting peace. The whole "I hate Earth because it's cool to hate on Earth" thing is hokey and played out.

 

[Bishop76]

Yeah, that's the same problem Star Trek IV had, and why it did so poorly at the box office. They cast a ho-ho wrapper as the antagonist and it totally bombed...

Oh, wait...

 

[Too Much Fun]

Yeah, I don't think the theory of having a big star in the villain role making a financial difference holds much weight. I think many would agree that Oscar winner F. Murray Abraham was the worst of all the Star Trek villains (if not one of the worst) and Eric Bana really wan't much of a presence in the last movie.

I like that "Star Trek: Nemesis" didn't follow the pattern of the previous films in going for a well-known actor for the villain and decided to give a shot to someone unknown (who is actually a good actor and was already good back then).

It just didn't make much difference since the script was lousy. I think Tom Hardy and Alice Krige were chosen solely based on how right they were for their part and without consideration of their fame. That's part of why they played their roles so well (again, it's not Hardy's acting that sucked, it was the script).

 

[Bishop76]

Bingo

 

[Admiral_Young]

I blame Stuart Baird and John Logan for most of the film's flaws. Logan claimed to be a big Trek fan and supposedly watched all the episodes before he wrote his script and yet it is one of the most weak scripts ever for a Trek movie. Baird's unfamiliarity with the characters I think hurt the emotional context of the film. I think a more knowledgeable director or even Jonathon Frakes would have been able to get more out of the actors.