Nemesis
- Thread starter heavylids
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Like TFF, I don't really get the over-the-top criticism this movie gets. It's not great, but it's not terrible. I much prefer it to ST: Insurrection. It actually feels like a movie event, a feel that some of the earlier films didn't get across.
Still, you can kind of get the feeling that the idea behind it was "OK, TWOK was a huge success. Let's try to make a TWOK for the Next Gen films."
There's a bunch of interesting plot elements, the movie just doesn't come together into anything very impressive.
Still, you can kind of get the feeling that the idea behind it was "OK, TWOK was a huge success. Let's try to make a TWOK for the Next Gen films."
There's a bunch of interesting plot elements, the movie just doesn't come together into anything very impressive.
I actually like Insurrection. It's definitely got some flaws, and I can easily think of several ways they could have adjusted the movie to make it better; but the overall premise is good, it's got some good scenes in there and I still enjoy watching it -- a bit like Return of the Jedi, really. In my mind, Nemesis is easily the worst of the four Next Generation movies: First Contact is great as it is, Generations and Insurrection could have been really good with some adjustments, but Nemesis would need a really substantial rewrite to make it watchable.
You know what's odd about Nemesis, though? It's like "generic Star Trek", in a way. Not only because it rehashes previous Star Trek stories ("There was a climactic space battle in a nebula with no sensors? Brilliant, do it again! The emotionless character was killed off at the end in an act of self-sacrifice? Brilliant, do that again too! Data had a brother? Brilliant, give him another one!"), but also in that it basically ignores most of the developments in Star Trek over the run of DS9 and the previous TNG movies. The Federation and Romulans are enemies again. Worf is back in Starfleet. Data appears to have lost his emotions again. Riker's grown his beard back...
You know what's odd about Nemesis, though? It's like "generic Star Trek", in a way. Not only because it rehashes previous Star Trek stories ("There was a climactic space battle in a nebula with no sensors? Brilliant, do it again! The emotionless character was killed off at the end in an act of self-sacrifice? Brilliant, do that again too! Data had a brother? Brilliant, give him another one!"), but also in that it basically ignores most of the developments in Star Trek over the run of DS9 and the previous TNG movies. The Federation and Romulans are enemies again. Worf is back in Starfleet. Data appears to have lost his emotions again. Riker's grown his beard back...
Yeah, not just a Genereic Star Trek, but a real bad rewrite of TWOK, if you think about it.
I've seen every Trek film in the theaters (even skipping out on work by calling in sick to see First Contact)..to me TFF was like watching an airplane crash..I couldn't tear my eyes away from the screen..there were faults, but at least I was entertained..
Nemesis... I fell asleep in the theater during the Dune Buggy chase..and woke up after 10 minutes..but the excitement was *GONE*... the actors phoned in the performance..the story had no structure nor logic..and every sequence was predictable... a yawnfest...
To me, Nemesis is the worst Trek film, period.
Nemesis... I fell asleep in the theater during the Dune Buggy chase..and woke up after 10 minutes..but the excitement was *GONE*... the actors phoned in the performance..the story had no structure nor logic..and every sequence was predictable... a yawnfest...
To me, Nemesis is the worst Trek film, period.
Why did they clone Picard, he was a no one back then? Even if they cloned him during the year the film is set in how could it possibly have a major effect on the Federation for the Romulan's benefit?
There's far too much talking in this film and Shinzon sounds like Julian Clarey in parts of this which just makes me laugh. The dune buggy chase was ridiculous visually and as a plot device. The action scenes are very well done though. Especially the space battles.
The cast just look and feel too complacent and comfortable and don't give everything in the performance. And Troi and Riker kissing. EEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeegh
There's far too much talking in this film and Shinzon sounds like Julian Clarey in parts of this which just makes me laugh. The dune buggy chase was ridiculous visually and as a plot device. The action scenes are very well done though. Especially the space battles.
The cast just look and feel too complacent and comfortable and don't give everything in the performance. And Troi and Riker kissing. EEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeegh
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TFF is the one Trek movie I couldn't even watch. I had no problem sitting through TMP (as dull as it was), but I really zoned out on TFF without even realizing, and then suddenly they were talking to God or something? I don't know.
Nemesis wasn't great, but it at least managed to hold my attention. And even if that's the best thing I can say about the movie, that's more than I can say for TFF.
I don't know if I'm one of those, honestly. I know that Nemesis is pretty awful (for many reasons that have been discussed to death in numerous threads), but I kind of like it, still.
The film doesn't make any sense whatsoever. But I watch it sometimes.
Hey, you don't answer to me - if you like the film, watch it. I just ask that you don't try to tell me that it's a misunderstood masterpiece (which you obviously don't). You're clearly aware that it's trash, but you still enjoy it - have at! I enjoy the Starship Troopers movies for the fantastic pieces of shit that they are. Though I actually think I enjoy them more BECAUSE of how bad they are...
I know that feeling! Like, I'll read a Marion Zimmer Bradley novel even though I object to almost everything in it. 
I just didn't know whether I should include myself in that group or not...but I think I don't have to.
In all honesty, I never saw anyone vehemently defending Nemesis. Maybe I've been reading the wrong threads.
I just didn't know whether I should include myself in that group or not...but I think I don't have to.
In all honesty, I never saw anyone vehemently defending Nemesis. Maybe I've been reading the wrong threads.
I wouldn't include you in that group - you may like the movie, but you have also acknowledged what an incoherent mess it is. The group I was referring to was more of the "Trek can do no wrong" group. You know, the Voyager fans
I love Voyager, but it's not because of some delusion that everything Trek is perfect. Just because you think something sucks, doesn't make it a fact. Your opinion is worth no more than mine, or anyone else's.
I'm pretty sure he wasn't being all that serious.
'tis another Trek show I watch even though it often makes zero sense. Like the Chewbacca defense on South Park.
This all makes me wanna watch the review of Nemesis by Red letter Media. They pretty much sum up my feelings about Nemesis. I watched the other reviews, and he makes valid points on them as well. Imagine Guinan coming back with Picard instead of Kirk to fight Soran! The whole thing about Picard, Data and The Borg Queen just making stuff up as they went a long, or the myserious stairs on the holo-ship.
Then I apologize. I don't know you well, so therefore I can only judge intent from the context of what's written, which as you know is difficult on the internet (and the cause of approximately 99% of mindless internet arguments. That is also scientifically proven).
If you weren't serious, I would expect a
to indicate "hey, I'm joking". to me implies more of a "you know what I mean, keep it a secret from those pesky Voyager fans though". Am I reading too much into an emoticon? You better believe it. But on the internet, I work with what I'm given!
And it's been scientifically proven that your scientifically proven facts are dubious at best. I'm not sure either of our science labs are trustworthy though.
As a rule, I never take message board posts all that seriously...least of all my own. Believe you me, it saves one a lot of trouble. 
It's amazing how you can be so correct about this fact, yet believe that TFF is in any way superior to NEM.
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