I loved Nemesis, it was a good TNG action film, up there with First Contact. Yes there were problems but I fine it a decent film. Where there any other thoughts of possible villians for Nemesis. We know from previous interviews Stewart might have played the villian at one version of the script. Did anyone remotely thought about Q, perhaps even the borg - and invasion in a larger scale, or even Kirk himself. With any of these changes would the general audience or even trek fans?
Nemesis villian what might have been?
- Thread starter cybersoldier
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A fun question, but it tends to assume that all the other plot points were fixed. And so the villain was interchangeable.
Not so. For better or worse, Shinzon was organic to the script. No Shinzon, no NEM. He represented past and future and other selves, as mimicked by Riker's marriage and pending departure, and more importanty by B4.
I do not like NEM at all, but I respect this thematic organization. It had to be Shinzon.
Not so. For better or worse, Shinzon was organic to the script. No Shinzon, no NEM. He represented past and future and other selves, as mimicked by Riker's marriage and pending departure, and more importanty by B4.
I do not like NEM at all, but I respect this thematic organization. It had to be Shinzon.
Re: Nemesis Villian | What Might Have Been?
And the Borg? Again?
IMHO Star Trek wasn't about "invasion in a larger scale", but about characters and drama. I can get a bit of both on NEM, but overall it didn't really klick. At least not for me ... 
On the Q premise -- I've thought about that myself some years ago (as I love de Lancie's portrayal of the character), but IMHO he never really was a villain. And come one -- an omnipotent character, capable of doing just EVERYTHING. How dramatic can that be? (And yes, I do love a great bulk of the Q stories on TNG -- but I don't see potential for a movie.) Maybe that's why they never did it.
And the Borg? Again?
IMHO Star Trek wasn't about "invasion in a larger scale", but about characters and drama. I can get a bit of both on NEM, but overall it didn't really klick. At least not for me ... 
Re: Nemesis Villian | What Might Have Been?
I know people here have disagreed with me but I would've brought back Sela. Unlike Shinzon who had a personal connection with Picard (along with an attraction to Troi) I think Sela affects more of the crew and allows the Romulans to be more of a threat to the Federation.
Admiral Young
I know people here have disagreed with me but I would've brought back Sela. Unlike Shinzon who had a personal connection with Picard (along with an attraction to Troi) I think Sela affects more of the crew and allows the Romulans to be more of a threat to the Federation.
Admiral Young
Re: Nemesis Villian | What Might Have Been?
As much as Tom Hardy's performance didn't work for me, at least he can act. Denise Crosby couldn't act her way out of a piss-soaked paper bag, and to balance so much of the film on her shoulders would have been a sure-fire recipe for disaster.
As much as Tom Hardy's performance didn't work for me, at least he can act. Denise Crosby couldn't act her way out of a piss-soaked paper bag, and to balance so much of the film on her shoulders would have been a sure-fire recipe for disaster.
Re: Nemesis Villian | What Might Have Been?
And, again, pandering to the fans isn't going to make a film a success. A well written script can make a new antagonist just as if not more engaging than a previously established one. Seriously, in most movies we don't know the characters before we walk in, and, if they're made well, we don't need backstory to become engaged.
And, again, pandering to the fans isn't going to make a film a success. A well written script can make a new antagonist just as if not more engaging than a previously established one. Seriously, in most movies we don't know the characters before we walk in, and, if they're made well, we don't need backstory to become engaged.
Re: Nemesis Villian | What Might Have Been?
I always thought it would've been cool to have the mirror universe Emperor Tiberius be the Nemesis. Have him come straight from the 24th century mirror universe, aboard the mirror version of the Enterprise-E and have Kirk vs. Picard, just like Braga and Moore were wanting for Generations.
It would've attracted both TOS and TNG fans. Hell, Spock could've been brought back too.
I always thought it would've been cool to have the mirror universe Emperor Tiberius be the Nemesis. Have him come straight from the 24th century mirror universe, aboard the mirror version of the Enterprise-E and have Kirk vs. Picard, just like Braga and Moore were wanting for Generations.
It would've attracted both TOS and TNG fans. Hell, Spock could've been brought back too.
Re: Nemesis Villian | What Might Have Been?
Changing the villian in NEM would have been fine... assuming they re-wrote the entire script and changed nearly everything that happened. The villian is central to the plot of the film. If you remove Shinzon from the script, the entire story has to change. Of course, that would be okay with me.
The idea of a Picard clone has some potential, I suppose... perhaps it would have been more interesting if Patrick Stewart played the clone, and we saw the Romulans actually attemptimg to kill/replace the real Picard with the clone.
Shinzon, as he was written, wasn't all that interesting to me. Neither was anything else in that script.
Changing the villian in NEM would have been fine... assuming they re-wrote the entire script and changed nearly everything that happened. The villian is central to the plot of the film. If you remove Shinzon from the script, the entire story has to change. Of course, that would be okay with me.
The idea of a Picard clone has some potential, I suppose... perhaps it would have been more interesting if Patrick Stewart played the clone, and we saw the Romulans actually attemptimg to kill/replace the real Picard with the clone.
Shinzon, as he was written, wasn't all that interesting to me. Neither was anything else in that script.
Re: Nemesis Villian | What Might Have Been?
Sela. This last TNG film could have done what the last TOS film did -- show us change can happen and that old enemies have the potential to be friends.
And also, it could have been an excuse to bring Spock in, since he was aiming for peace with his people and theirs'.
Sela. This last TNG film could have done what the last TOS film did -- show us change can happen and that old enemies have the potential to be friends.
And also, it could have been an excuse to bring Spock in, since he was aiming for peace with his people and theirs'.
Re: Nemesis Villian | What Might Have Been?
^ Ah...finally. Someone who agrees with me and sees the potential of having Sela. You could use Spock as well if you wanted to but I agree if you had a different villan then a story re-write would be neccessary, although having Sela instead of Shinzon doesn't call for a drastic re-write just a few tweaks here and there.
Admiral Young
^ Ah...finally. Someone who agrees with me and sees the potential of having Sela. You could use Spock as well if you wanted to but I agree if you had a different villan then a story re-write would be neccessary, although having Sela instead of Shinzon doesn't call for a drastic re-write just a few tweaks here and there.
Admiral Young
Re: Nemesis Villian | What Might Have Been?
Could they have maybe cast a non-shitty actress as Sela? Otherwise, I'm not seeing how this would be an improvement over the crap we got.
Could they have maybe cast a non-shitty actress as Sela? Otherwise, I'm not seeing how this would be an improvement over the crap we got.
Re: Nemesis Villian | What Might Have Been?
^They probably would've had to cast someone a bit younger for her...
^They probably would've had to cast someone a bit younger for her...
Re: Nemesis Villian | What Might Have Been?
I'd rather the villain have been someone new, a Romulan commander who was the captain of the Romulan flagship and whose career paralleled Picard's in many ways. He would have entered the picture as someone who had been dying to take a crack at Picard and the Enterprise for a long time to prove which one of them was the best. It would be obvious from the start, however, that they are equals in every way, but the Romulan commander is more ambitious and driven than Picard ever could be.
Forget non-look alike clones and forget vampires--I mean Remans--it would be a no holds barred showdown between flagship captains with probably the fate of some "mostly harmless" planet hanging in the balance thrown in for the hell of it...
I'd rather the villain have been someone new, a Romulan commander who was the captain of the Romulan flagship and whose career paralleled Picard's in many ways. He would have entered the picture as someone who had been dying to take a crack at Picard and the Enterprise for a long time to prove which one of them was the best. It would be obvious from the start, however, that they are equals in every way, but the Romulan commander is more ambitious and driven than Picard ever could be.
Forget non-look alike clones and forget vampires--I mean Remans--it would be a no holds barred showdown between flagship captains with probably the fate of some "mostly harmless" planet hanging in the balance thrown in for the hell of it...
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