NEMESIS is worst Trek movie

[crookeddy]

TFF had awful effects, and out of character Kirk, some poor choice of plot devices (dancing Uhura), and bad direction. However it's basic premise was sound, and consistent with something we would see on TOS. The Enterprise used to ALWAYS get hijacked, and the crew would ALWAYS meet some super being or another. Thus the show made sense in the context of TOS. Then Nemesis had EVERYONE out of character, the story made no sense in any context, it had a ridiculous plot device (positronic signature, mind rape) and on top of that wasn't executed too greatly. Thus, IMO, TFF definitely has Nemesis beat, even though Nemesis had superior directing and effects.

 

[Triskelion]

I could see Shinzon as an offspring of Picard and Beverly. He's got a Wesley vibe.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Well.. I have met William Shatner, and I have actually had dinner with him at his home, with my wife and kids. I found him to be a very nice person, and very witty for a man his age. (This was four years ago).

Many of you bash this guy but I really don't care. He is by far the most famous aspect of Star Trek. No one, not Roddenberry, not Nimoy or Stewart can touch him. Some of you just don't like to hear that..but its true. HE IS Mr. Star Trek. Those of you who hate him are just mindless fools who listen to the dribble of Takie/Koenig/Doohan and think they are telling you like it is. All three of them put together couldn't act their way out of a paper bag, nor have they had the career that Shatner has had.

HE is an Icon. They are just astericks in time.

Robert

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

Which is the one where Scotty pipes a coffin off the ship? That has to be the most cringe-makingly hilarious moment in cinematic history.

I'm afraid I don't understand what is so cringe worthy about this scene. Its a touchingly emotional funeral. Bagpipes are actually used fairly frequently at funerals--especially police funerals, for some reason--and I've never found their use even remotely humorous.

 

[Dane_Whitman]

Alright, Nemesis is VERY flawed but I'll take it over TFF any day. TFF is just painful to watch. I also enjoyed Nemesis more than Insurrection. At least Nemesis tried to be a movie.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Alright, Nemesis is VERY flawed but I'll take it over TFF any day. TFF is just painful to watch. I also enjoyed Nemesis more than Insurrection. At least Nemesis tried to be a movie.

We must have seen two different movies. I thought Nemesis tried to be a very low-budget looking TV episode. TFF has its moments, Nemesis is just an utter waste of time. And I knew TREK was in trouble the moment the lights came up. The movie audience, made up of TREK fans, looked liked they had just all been to their mom's funeral. We were all, ALL, utterly left in a state of shock because that movie was sooooooooooooooooooooooooo bad. That movie killed the TNG franchise.

Rob

 

[Shaw]

Well.. I have met William Shatner, and I have actually had dinner with him at his home, with my wife and kids. I found him to be a very nice person, and very witty for a man his age. (This was four years ago).

Many of you bash this guy but I really don't care. He is by far the most famous aspect of Star Trek. No one, not Roddenberry, not Nimoy or Stewart can touch him. Some of you just don't like to hear that..but its true. HE IS Mr. Star Trek. Those of you who hate him are just mindless fools who listen to the dribble of Takie/Koenig/Doohan and think they are telling you like it is. All three of them put together couldn't act their way out of a paper bag, nor have they had the career that Shatner has had.

HE is an Icon. They are just astericks in time.

Well, that does explain why you liked TFF.

I couldn't care less what anyone thinks of him as a person, his job is to do Trek and do it well... and if he can't, then he should step aside.

... and very witty for a man his age.

What?

You've got to be kidding, right?

Are you unaware of people his age? Why would you need to insert his age as a qualifier? I know people older, smarter, both wittier and sharper, and in way better shape than him. So unless you've been assuming that anyone his age must have one foot in "assisted living" and that senility is the norm and not the exception, I fail to see how his age enhances his wit (or the lack there of).

Sean Connery (for example) is older, in better shape, and hasn't had to turn himself into a side show to extend his career.

Leslie Nielsen and William Shatner are perfect examples of leading men who failed to keep their leading man abilities in their later years. As to why they are the way they are... I have no idea. But I think both stand as cautionary tails rather than role models.

 

[TigerOfDarkness]

I like TFF and NEM more than INS.
At least they try to be about something. The nature vs. nurture question is (IMO) an interesting one. Of course, NEM has its faults - not the least of which being Shinzon not looking that much like Picard, as previous posters have noted.

 

[ancient]

Yes, TFF is vastly superior to NEM. But then again what isn't? NEM has shitty acting, a poor, contrived storyline, and fails miserably in both pacing and emotion.

TFF had problems for sure, but it had likeable characters and wonderful character momenrts. I don't care too much about the effects, they were ok. For all of the SHAT's problems with that film he still made something less cliched & narc inducing than NEM.

EDIT: TFF is also better than TMP and INS, imo.

(These threads have real staying power, eh?)

 

[Dane_Whitman]

We must have seen two different movies. I thought Nemesis tried to be a very low-budget looking TV episode.

Really? Huh. From the opening sequence on this was more of a 'movie' to me than "Generations" and "Insurrection". There were some big dramatic scenes in the film (no comment on their effectiveness though), a couple of nice sets (the Romulan Senate set, the Shinzon reveal set), good SFX sequences... The space battle should have been on a larger scale but it was extensive. It takes up a large part of the movie.

The TNG part of "Generations" and "Insurrection" on the other hand were just like two-part TV episodes.

 

[Cyrus]

I definitely agree that Nemesis didn't look anything like a low budget TV episode (a definition that aptly describes TFF btw). I will even go further and say that Nemesis was the most cinematic of all Trek movies, with the exception of TMP which is in a class by itself in that regard.

This is the area were Stuart Baird was effective. While Baird was a mediocre director as far as getting good performances out of the actors (specially Stewart), he is a veteran of film industry (and not a TV dude) with editing credits on quite a few top-notch movies. So he was able to create a nice cinematic look and feel for the movie.

 

[Dane_Whitman]

So he was able to create a nice cinematic look and feel for the movie.

True. There are many areas in which Nemesis fails, but this is not one of them.

 

[donners22]

I think Nemesis is among the top four Trek films. I found some of the acting and dialogue in the first three Trek films in particular to be woefully stiff and awkward. Aside from the utterly gratutous and pointless scene on the planet, I thought Nemesis was terrific.

Data's death and, more particularly, the reaction to it, was very moving for me, and I thought Shinzon was a far more interesting villain than most we've seen.

 

[SiorX]

I wonder if it makes a difference which is your own personal favourite Trek?

I think TFF is a pretty sucktacular movie, but it doesn't fill me with incoherent rage the same way NEM does. I think that's probably because Next Gen is the Trek I grew up with and for which I still have the softest spot.

Personally, I vacillate backwards and forwards on whether I hate NEM or INS more depending on which one I'm watching. Insurrection always seems to me to embody all the worst characteristics into which Next Gen occasionally stumbled - sanctimonious, morally trite, dreadful "jokes", making Data an idiot savant, ignoring most of the crew, glorification of the status quo. Nemesis on the other hand just fails to resemble anything Next Gen was supposed to be, or to even bother to check Next Gen canon.

Compared to either of those, I'd rather watch TFF. Because TFF has a few character moments here and there that make me go "aww".

But like I said, I think that's probably because I don't have the same investment in the TOS crew as in TNG.

 

[MrPointy]

Nemesis... is probably the second-best TNG film and the only one of the TNG movies that actually feels like a film instead of a big-budget 2 part episode. First Contact beats it by a mile, but feels like an episode.

It has a fucking terrible beginning and a horribly shitty ending, but the middle is mostly pure gold. It's like a sandwich with a tiny, but delicious filling.

Shinzon is the best TNG movie villain since he actually does things in the film and not just stand around and talk. Picard's dynamic with Shinzon is very father/rebellious son like and really quite excellent. Data is probably his most human in Nemesis as well, because of his interest in B4.

Of course, Shinzon's plot to destroy Earth is nebulous at best and the mind-rape thing was just there to make him come off more evil and not really needed. The wedding was retarded.

And finally, Data's death came out of nowhere. Spock's death in STII had motivation and reason. Data did it for the lulz.

 

[AxelFoley]

Leslie Nielsen and William Shatner are perfect examples of leading men who failed to keep their leading man abilities in their later years. As to why they are the way they are... I have no idea. But I think both stand as cautionary tails rather than role models.

What? Leslie Nielsen was a leading man well into his seventies.

 

[cardinal biggles]

But like Shatner, he kept that career going by turning to comedy — Nielsen pretty much stopped doing drama and switched over to comedy with Airplane! in 1980, when he was 54.

 

[AxelFoley]

But like Shatner, he kept that career going by turning to comedy — Nielsen pretty much stopped doing drama and switched over to comedy with Airplane! in 1980, when he was 54.

So? He was still a leading man when he turned to comedy, and it happened by accident, it's not as if he was not able to be a dramatic actor anylonger. He wnt on to have 20 years full of success as a leading man in some of the best spoofs ever made.

 

[Nebusj]

So? He was still a leading man when he turned to comedy, and it happened by accident, it's not as if he was not able to be a dramatic actor anylonger. He wnt on to have 20 years full of success as a leading man in some of the best spoofs ever made.

And then, alas, he went on to everything he did since Dracula: Dead and Loving It other than his part on Due South.

 

[AxelFoley]

So? He was still a leading man when he turned to comedy, and it happened by accident, it's not as if he was not able to be a dramatic actor anylonger. He wnt on to have 20 years full of success as a leading man in some of the best spoofs ever made.

And then, alas, he went on to everything he did since Dracula: Dead and Loving It other than his part on Due South.

If I'm not incorrect, his last leading role was Wrongfully Accused, when he was 72. Not bad at all.