Neelix....I wish you a slow and painful death
- Thread starter Mayack419
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All unexpected "depth" redoubtably describes is how further we can bury a knife into him.
If being annoying is grounds for murder, then more than half of Treks fanbase should have been dead 3x over. lol
In-universe pro-Neelix response:
Tuvok, who should have despied Neelix (and did when he came aboard), put him over twice. In "Riddles," Neelix is the only one who really accepts Regarding Henry-Tuvok. And Tuvok thanks him for it, in his own way, at the end, by referencing "sundaes." It's also significant that Tuvok is a prodigy at the skill everyone thinks Neelix lacks, cooking.
Real-world pro-Neelix response:
As I almost told Ethan Phillips at the Vegas con this year (my 3-y.o. acted up so much I had to leave before I could get to the front of the line), I'm not a big Neelix fan, but I'm a huge Ethan Phillips fan. That was after fan after fan came up and said they were a huge Neelix fan.
On first watch I found the character detestable; I nearly wept when Tuvok the Vulcan strangler said, "Computer, end program." But, like the show itself, Neelix really grew on me. It's hard for me to separate the character from everything Ethan Phillips put into it (an effort that we have to acknowledge if we pile on Beltran and Wang for dogging it in the later years), so I won't deny that colors my perception of the character.
When I rewatch the show now, though, he's one of the things I look for.
Tuvok, who should have despied Neelix (and did when he came aboard), put him over twice. In "Riddles," Neelix is the only one who really accepts Regarding Henry-Tuvok. And Tuvok thanks him for it, in his own way, at the end, by referencing "sundaes." It's also significant that Tuvok is a prodigy at the skill everyone thinks Neelix lacks, cooking.
Real-world pro-Neelix response:
As I almost told Ethan Phillips at the Vegas con this year (my 3-y.o. acted up so much I had to leave before I could get to the front of the line), I'm not a big Neelix fan, but I'm a huge Ethan Phillips fan. That was after fan after fan came up and said they were a huge Neelix fan.
On first watch I found the character detestable; I nearly wept when Tuvok the Vulcan strangler said, "Computer, end program." But, like the show itself, Neelix really grew on me. It's hard for me to separate the character from everything Ethan Phillips put into it (an effort that we have to acknowledge if we pile on Beltran and Wang for dogging it in the later years), so I won't deny that colors my perception of the character.
When I rewatch the show now, though, he's one of the things I look for.
Have you ever seen Bloonlines? Canadian Buffy rip off about a blond girl PI kicking the shit out of demons every week with the help of her Vampire buddy?
In this lore, Vampires do not get along.
9 days starved Rats in a cage don't get along.
So the Vampires all have a human city to themselves.
...
I wonder what I'd have to do to get comicon to myself?
Neelix....You will never deserve a slow and painful death
Neelix was suppose to be a 'living example' of a person in the Delta Quadrant, THEREFORE, he is dumber than humans and irritating. He also has many attributes; loving, cooking, being communicative, and he is a self-made engineer. They didn't have to discard him because he more than earned his stay by just being himself. Leaving Voyager is something the miners on the asteroid wanted. It's also healthy to kill-off the minor characters at the end. It gives the major characters a more prestigious finality.
Neelix was suppose to be a 'living example' of a person in the Delta Quadrant, THEREFORE, he is dumber than humans and irritating. He also has many attributes; loving, cooking, being communicative, and he is a self-made engineer. They didn't have to discard him because he more than earned his stay by just being himself. Leaving Voyager is something the miners on the asteroid wanted. It's also healthy to kill-off the minor characters at the end. It gives the major characters a more prestigious finality.
He left Voyager because no bugger would frakk him.
It's a ship of prudes!
Also the girl he was so smitten by, was probably another one of those illusion casting salt eating monsters from TOS The Mantrap who's ultimate goal was to eat Neelix not blow him.
Or maybe to blow him to death as a polite compromise.
It's a ship of prudes!
Also the girl he was so smitten by, was probably another one of those illusion casting salt eating monsters from TOS The Mantrap who's ultimate goal was to eat Neelix not blow him.
Or maybe to blow him to death as a polite compromise.
I like Neelix. Jatrel and Mortal Coil are fantastic episodes; and his back story in Pathways(?) was the absolute best of the bunch.
Re: Neelix....You will never deserve a slow and painful death
Yes, the crew of Voyager all had the benefit of a Federation education. They have the benefits of having the education collectively of all the worlds within the Federation......and then the higher education received in Starfleet. Even Kes was educated by the Caretaker, a being that was traveling the galaxy and had vast knoweledge.
There is NO such educational equlivent of that in the DQ. Neelix is the end result of what can be seen as home schooled. He didn't know and wasn't aware of anything beyond what was in front of his own face or much beyond his world. How could he, his people weren't explores. After
they were dead, who could teach him then? So of course he would look dumb next to everybody on Voyager. That must have been very intimidating to him, so in order to try not looking dumb. He would lie about what he knows because he wanted to be as smart but was ashamed he wasn't.
So its not his fault.
How can you expect someone to be as smart as folks who went to "college" if you've never ever gone to school?
Good point.
Yes, the crew of Voyager all had the benefit of a Federation education. They have the benefits of having the education collectively of all the worlds within the Federation......and then the higher education received in Starfleet. Even Kes was educated by the Caretaker, a being that was traveling the galaxy and had vast knoweledge.
There is NO such educational equlivent of that in the DQ. Neelix is the end result of what can be seen as home schooled. He didn't know and wasn't aware of anything beyond what was in front of his own face or much beyond his world. How could he, his people weren't explores. After
they were dead, who could teach him then? So of course he would look dumb next to everybody on Voyager. That must have been very intimidating to him, so in order to try not looking dumb. He would lie about what he knows because he wanted to be as smart but was ashamed he wasn't.
So its not his fault.
How can you expect someone to be as smart as folks who went to "college" if you've never ever gone to school?
number6
Vice Admiral
^ This is an excellent point.
I also feel that Tuvok pretty accurately portrayed the negative sentiments about Neelix's lack of sophistication as mirrored by the sentiments seen here. Neelix was obviously created to appeal to a younger part of the Trek audience, much in the way Wesley and Jake were in the other series. He is the Jar Jar Binks of the franchise.
No reason to kill him though. In this case torture would be acceptable, as long as we get to watch.
I also feel that Tuvok pretty accurately portrayed the negative sentiments about Neelix's lack of sophistication as mirrored by the sentiments seen here. Neelix was obviously created to appeal to a younger part of the Trek audience, much in the way Wesley and Jake were in the other series. He is the Jar Jar Binks of the franchise.
No reason to kill him though. In this case torture would be acceptable, as long as we get to watch.
I disagree. I think he was meant to be more like Quark or Phlox, the strange, genial alien outsider among the crew.
(in fact, a magazine's description of him before the series' debut put it as "think Quark with different hair," or something close to that.
I don't think he was meant to be a Binks/Wesley type character.
I agree with thinking they were trying to make a Quark for Voyager, except not scheming and devious.
Remember the pilot?
Neelix sold out Janeway to the Kazon, and then double crossed the kazon, beginning a war with the Kazon that would last 2 years.
He hid away in the galley, but fuck it, every Kazon assault on Voyager was his fault because he played two sides against one another and laughed his ass off while doing it.
I'm really thinking that Kes subconsciously and "accidentally" telepathically neutered Neelix to be a more docile and trustworthy companion and lover.
Neelix sold out Janeway to the Kazon, and then double crossed the kazon, beginning a war with the Kazon that would last 2 years.
He hid away in the galley, but fuck it, every Kazon assault on Voyager was his fault because he played two sides against one another and laughed his ass off while doing it.
I'm really thinking that Kes subconsciously and "accidentally" telepathically neutered Neelix to be a more docile and trustworthy companion and lover.
I don't think Quark is the right comparison.
Quark was smart and had money.
His motivation was greed.
Neelix was dumb and dirt poor, dude was homeless and living in garbage upon meeting him.
Neelix' motivation was the fear of being homeless and hungry again.
If anything Neelix was more like Rom.
Someone who at first was a joke but as the character grows, the more his skills come to the surface.
Plus, Quark's life is by choice and culture.
Neelix' life isn't by choice or culture, he was forced into the life he has.
I don't necessarily disagree with your observations, but you're looking at it from an in-universe perspective.
I meant that from a series design perspective, Neelix was meant to be like a Quark-type character, not that their psychology or motivations would be similar.
I disagree.
I think the only reason we compare him to Quark in design or status is because there has never been a full alien civilian character in the main cast in a Trek series before Quark. Since we have no other reference, we compare him to the only one we have. The same reason everyone compares Phlox to Neelix just because their make-up design is similar.
I'll admit I thought of the comparison earlier in the series mainly because he was a quirky food server and a jerk. The comparison goes away later, but I still wonder if their original intent was to have him be a nicer version of DS9's Quark.
You have to remember that the studio was pushing Voyager to compensate for what it didn't approve of on DS9 at the time, and they had a problem with Quark that almost took him of the show. I could easily see them trying to make Neelix a similar counterpart, but without Quark's "edginess" that was somewhat of a big deal at the time.
You have to remember that the studio was pushing Voyager to compensate for what it didn't approve of on DS9 at the time, and they had a problem with Quark that almost took him of the show. I could easily see them trying to make Neelix a similar counterpart, but without Quark's "edginess" that was somewhat of a big deal at the time.
Quark and Neelix actually have a lot of similarities
-They're both involved in food service
-they're both supposed to be very resourceful with a lot of connections, some shady
-they're both "non-warrior"(not just that they're civilians but their characters just aren't fighter-types) among crews of mostly warriors
-they're both outgoing people persons
-and yes, they're both alien civilians
that's actually a lot of similarities, I think you're deliberately avoiding how close the two characters are, it's just that Quark was pulled off a lot better
Guinan shares all those similarities too.
So if anything, Quark & Neelix are Guinian type characters.
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Guinan shares all those similarities too.
So if anything, Quark & Neelix are Guinian type characters.
actually, I'd agree, except for the part about Guinan being a non-warrior (look at "Q Who," "night terrors," , etc.) Hey, Picard even wanted her help to fight Soran in "Generations."
but yes, all joking aside, Quark, Neelix, and Guinan are all similar character types.
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