Need advice on urgent family situation...

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I've read your whole post hamudm and I think you are at the point now of confrontation with your parents. I say this because of the emotional damage to your wife and the eroding of the relationship. It seems particularly weird that so many of your relatives do accept you.. have you considered having a kind of intervention with the assistance of some of these relatives? Or having some of these relatives broach the subject with your parents without you being there? You may have to explain fully to any relatives you ask for help with this how interwoven your lives are and how painful and ridiculous it ends up being. Incidents like the hospital are only going to increase as they get older.

I do think issuing ultimatums is counterproductive, certainly I think there should be some way of having a confrontation without an ultimatum being a part of that. You need time to process the response to a confrontation and they need time to possibly amend their reaction.

The daily-ness of the relationship and the dependance of your parents on your family to be their closest family means you really can't continue with the tension that many families make their peace with, my own included. I can put up with my fundamentalist relatives because I don't see them regularly. I can swallow the censoring of conversation, modifying of how I dress and what I might read in front of them and the lobotomizing of my opinions and ideas for the sake of not being confrontational in any way.. because they love the children and are loving and good people. However if they lived next door to me it would be another matter entirely, if they wanted to be as involved in our lives as your parents are in yours I could not live with this kind of tension.

What I'm thinking is is that they must feel we find their behaviour acceptable by way of our inaction.

People don't want to take on trouble, if you appear fine with it they won't be sitting around wondering if you're not. If they are used to keeping a secret they are used to leaving much unsaid and everyone agreeing to a sham. Think of how many times they've had relatives inquire after you and if you're now married and both supported each other in the fiction that you are not. They are used to living like this unchallenged. Now I know it's very hard to challenge older people.. my family demurs to the older fundamentalists on all sorts of ridiculous things they wouldn't put up with hearing from a complete stranger. We do it because they are old and we seem to assume they are delicate and challenging them as the younger party is incredibly rude.

There is also the feeling that no good is going to come of it.. but if the status quo is rotten then no good comes of remaining silent.

If you can think that you are confronting this for the sake of your daughter that might help.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Really? My mother's mother said, I front of her three grandchildren, that she "only had love for one" of us. My father told her that if she ever said anything like that again, she would never see any of us, including her only child, my mother. Needless to say, there was no loving bond with this woman. Her loss.

Obviously I am talking about in the context of a loving relationship which the OP says the grandparents have with their grand daughter.

Ah.

But really, for all their being “loving” grandparents, are they really? They may “love” her, but they consider her an embarrassment in front of their friends. They want to have their cake (have the love of a grandchild) and eat it too (but not be embarrassed). The child WILL notice it, WILL ask about it, and likely will feel “what wrong with me?” when she understands--not realizing that the problem lies with them (the grandparents).

I agree that it is not good for the grandchild and they want to have their cake and eat it too. However yes, they can be loving and they can love their grandchild as well as wanting to keep her a secret. People are incredibly complex, as is love.

It's not that they don't love, it's that some of their actions are not loving.

 

[Shanndee]

Whatever happens, it sounds like your wife and daughter are extremely lucky to have such a loving and dedicated husband and father. Any difficulties they may experience from any estrangement with the extended family will hopefully be offset by the strong bond you have with them and the fantastic example you've set for your daughter. You really should be proud of that, and of the amount of empathy and understanding you've continued to show your parents and other relatives in the face of a lot of disrespect.

I second the above. I have the utmost respect for you Hamudm. Everyone has given you very good advice, and I can't add anything new. I wish you and your family the very best.

Take care.

 

[hamudm]

Thanks so much all. It was great to get so much perspective and insight from everyone here. You all have my deepest gratitude

Now time to make some decisions!

 

[Kestra]

Good luck. We are always around if you need to vent. isn't it wonderful when the community pulls together like this?

 

[J.T.B.]

Sadly, my parents don't respond well to rationality. The counterargument has always been, that "one day you'll learn" or "you have to take the time to learn the teachings of the Quran" or "Religion is very central to our life and we can't ignore it."

Yeah, I feel for you there. Family disputes and religion are two areas where people quickly abandon rationality. If you had political differences you'd have the trifecta!

Again, best of luck, I know there will be some difficult times ahead.

Justin

 

[iguana_tonante]

My wife's grandparents were verbally abusive to my wife when she was growing up and people let them get by with it cause "It's just an Italian thing, it's the culture". (...)

I'm a right bastard, fine. You don't like me fine. But you're not going to put my kids through your hell just cause "it's your culture"

Especially since it's not "the culture" in any way I can think of. In Italy, a country of large families living under the same roof, the relationship between grandparents and grandchildren is usually very close. My grandparents were the most sweet, loving persons I've met. They worshipped the ground I walked upon. The idea of any Italian grandparent being verbally abusive to their grandchildren is simply astonishing.

 

[SeerSGB]

My wife's grandparents were verbally abusive to my wife when she was growing up and people let them get by with it cause "It's just an Italian thing, it's the culture". (...)

I'm a right bastard, fine. You don't like me fine. But you're not going to put my kids through your hell just cause "it's your culture"

Especially since it's not "the culture" in any way I can think of. In Italy, a country of large families living under the same roof, the relationship between grandparents and grandchildren is usually very close. My grandparents were the most sweet, loving persons I've met. They worshipped the ground I walked upon. The idea of any Italian grandparent being verbally abusive to their grandchildren is simply astonishing.

I think "it's the culture" gets used (was used) a lot get by with crap that wouldn't fly any where. I think he was just an asshole and that was all there was too it, but folks gave him a "out" and he used it.

 

[Captrek]

I don’t have any advice, but I have had some similar experience.

My parents (my mother, especially) hated my gf when we got together in 2004. I honestly can’t say why, for certain. Perhaps because she’s not Jewish, or because she’s poor, uneducated, Mexican, mother of three children from a previous marriage, all with irredeemable character flaws in the eyes of my mother... or maybe it was simply their abiding conviction that nobody would ever love me for me, and anybody who pretends to must have sinister ulterior motives.

For years, I don’t think I had a single conversation of consequence with my mother that didn’t include her talking shit about me and my family or trying to break us up.

One day two years ago I stormed out of my parents’ home after a heated argument. I got an email from my father blaming their atrocious behavior on me. I responded with an email saying I didn’t want to know them anymore.

I haven’t spoken with them since. I haven’t missed them for a moment.

The latter point was a little unexpected. My parents had raised me to believe that they were the only people I could count on and I’d be lost without them. When I made the decision to excise them from my life, it was not without trepidation. Now, after two years of estrangement, I realize what a useless and toxic presence they were in my life. With their hostility toward my family and refusal even to give lip service to accepting it as part of their own, I was in an uncomfortable position in the middle with one foot in each family. I finally chose to sacrifice one family for the sake of the other, only to realize it was no sacrifice after all.

 

[JiNX-01]

Whatever happens, it sounds like your wife and daughter are extremely lucky to have such a loving and dedicated husband and father. Any difficulties they may experience from any estrangement with the extended family will hopefully be offset by the strong bond you have with them and the fantastic example you've set for your daughter. You really should be proud of that, and of the amount of empathy and understanding you've continued to show your parents and other relatives in the face of a lot of disrespect.

I agree. You are a man of great character. And that is going to be what gets you and your family through this one way or the other.

 

[hamudm]

I don’t have any advice, but I have had some similar experience.

My parents (my mother, especially) hated my gf when we got together in 2004. I honestly can’t say why, for certain. Perhaps because she’s not Jewish, or because she’s poor, uneducated, Mexican, mother of three children from a previous marriage, all with irredeemable character flaws in the eyes of my mother... or maybe it was simply their abiding conviction that nobody would ever love me for me, and anybody who pretends to must have sinister ulterior motives.

For years, I don’t think I had a single conversation of consequence with my mother that didn’t include her talking shit about me and my family or trying to break us up.

One day two years ago I stormed out of my parents’ home after a heated argument. I got an email from my father blaming their atrocious behavior on me. I responded with an email saying I didn’t want to know them anymore.

I haven’t spoken with them since. I haven’t missed them for a moment.

The latter point was a little unexpected. My parents had raised me to believe that they were the only people I could count on and I’d be lost without them. When I made the decision to excise them from my life, it was not without trepidation. Now, after two years of estrangement, I realize what a useless and toxic presence they were in my life. With their hostility toward my family and refusal even to give lip service to accepting it as part of their own, I was in an uncomfortable position in the middle with one foot in each family. I finally chose to sacrifice one family for the sake of the other, only to realize it was no sacrifice after all.

That really sucks... Although I'm glad you were able to find some peace. Ultimately, I think it's your parents who will lose the most by way of their poor judgement and hateful behavior.

... I just don't get it; culture or not, life is too short to let cultural and religious norms become barriers to love and happiness between families.