Need advice on urgent family situation...

[hamudm]

So I have been around here for a long time and have dropped off the radar in the last couple of years. However, those of you that have known me over the last 12 years may recall the situation my wife and I had with my family.

The problem I'm having is that my religious muslim family aren't committing to accepting my wife, daughter and I as a part of the family. I'll give a #'d list of some of the key points and summarize and then I hope I can get some advice from you all.

1. Met my wife at University in 2006... started dating.My parents did not accept this, since my wife is an agnostic Canadian and (I am also the same), but my family is of Ahmadi muslim background where dating before marriage, or marriage outside of Islam without conversion by the other party is forbidden.

2. Over the next 3 years, parents ignored my girlfriend (at the time, now wife) and continuously phoned begging me to stop ruining the family name. After the first year, my gf and I moved out. Essentially, they refused to meet my girlfriend/wife until one day we ran into each other at the mall (leading to public blubbering) and then gradually, my parents would invite us over for dinner.

3. 2009: We get married My parents, nor anyone else from my family (except my brother who is also married now to a non-Muslim Canadian), came to our wedding. Obviously, I felt dejected; however, I understood. Basically, it was a matter of tarnishing the family name in the eyes of the Ahmadi Muslim community. They would be shunned if it became public knowledge that their sons had gone outside the faith to marry. However, after a couple of months, we resumed socializing with them in private.

4. March, 2011: Our daughter is born My parents, although obviously filled with joy at this point are clearly worried about what having a (as perceived by them) a granddaughter out of wedlock. However, we have so far included them intimately in our daughter's life. They've been at her birthday, we have dinner together all the time, go shopping, etc... She loves them and they love her. But the problem is that apart from only closest trusted family members and one family friend, no one knows in their extended family (i.e. cousins, aunts and uncles) as well as their social circles that a) their sons are married and b) they have a granddaughter. There are no pictures in their house of any of us that are publicly displayed, only hidden in their bedroom/closets etc...

5. October, 2011: My Grandmother passes away in the UK; my wife, myself and our daughter pack up and leave to spend her last week with her before she passes... we attend the funeral. Unfortunately, when it came time for the funeral, my wife and daughter were asked not to come as it was a religious ceremony and it would turn my Grandmother's funeral (who was a wonderful woman) into a social circus. Incidentally, one of my grandmother's last wishes was that no one be denied going to her funeral, namely my wife and daughter. Of couse, I wouldn't leave my family alone in a strange country. After lots of crying, etc... we all are asked to go, but my wife and daughter aren't acknowleged by my parents and aunt in public (thankfully, my sister had the decency and common sense to not be an ass and she made my wife and daughter as comfortable as she could). At this point, my mother says to my wife that although she loves her, unless she converts to Islam, their relationship will never be open... my wife is crushed (I'm accounting a bit for the fact that my mother is griefstricken on the day of her mother's funeral... but she's always not had much of a verbal filter either!).

Oddly enough, when meeting with the leader of the community (the equivalent of a Pope) after the funeral prayer, we all go in as a family to meet with him. We're welcomed in, although no mention is made of my wife not being a Muslim.​

Yeah this is all pretty fucked up. My wife was admanat from the beginning that she didn't want them to be a huge part of her life given the circumstanes, i.e. we don't want our daughter to be 8 years old one day and discover that her existance is being concealed by my parents... obviously that would be very devastating to the psyche of a child or even an adult! Clearly this has gone by the wayside for just upwards of a year now. But my parents enroach on our personal space and boundaries a bit; they want to get together all the time, which under normal circumstances we would have no problem with. However, as our daughter gets older, this will mean that she will become more and more attached to them as well.

Having grown up resenting my father's parents because they only came to visit me once in 30 years, I know what that's like... I hate the fact that I couldn't care less about them and I don't want that for my daughter. Conversely, I had a WONDERFUL relationship with my mother's parents and I don't want our daughter to lose out on something special like that either. It should be noted we are also very close to my wife's parents, with whom neither of us have any quarrel.

The other side to this is:

a) my mother struggles with depression
b) my father had a heartattack this past November due to complications from his diabetes... he has gone from a 160lbs 60 year old man, to 120lbs now. He only eats when he's around us. The doctors have said to us that his condition (i.e. not eating very much leading to his weight loss) is psychological and that we need to spend time with him if he is going to turn his health around
c) my parents are in a bad spot financially as well, so as their health declines, they will need support. My sister lives in the UK and my brother lives in Alberta, so I am the only family member anywhere near that is able to provide such support​

Clearly, my first duty is to support my daughter and wife. I agree with my wife's assessment, but I know she has a tendency to also respond too emotionally rather than rationally. Although, I agree that if circumstances don't change, that my parents should probably be limited from my daughter, we need to consider what impact both scenarios will have on our kid as well as the decline of their finances and health. I just want to make sure we don't say/do the wrong thing and irreperably damage the lives of our daughter, our parents and/or ourselves.

Religion is obviously the major driving force in this whole situation. I grew up in the environment, so at least I understand it, even though I am strongly opposed to the strongarm effect it has on its followers. This isn't some crazy sect of Islam either... they're almost like Quakers, very peaceful. However, it's very cliquee and social stigma is a HUGE factor in several followers' life decisions.

I guess, I just need various people's input. I've asked some friends and some say cut and run, while others agree it's a more complicated scenario. I'm not a cut and run type of guy. To me family (not just immediate) is important and I don't believe just because someone wrongs you, you should wrong them back. If anyone has anything they could offer, it would be so greatly appreciated.

-h

Thanks all for listening

 

[auntiehill]

Under the circumstance, I would respect your wife's wishes. You may visit your parents on your own and certainly help them emotionally and financially , but as they have made it clear that they will not accept or respect your wife, and in effect, your daughter, I think they have made the choice for you. I would keep your family as far from them as possible, for their own emotional well-being.

So, not a total cut and run--but definitely a carefully planned retreat.

 

[JiNX-01]

Wow, that is one mess you have going on there.

I will say this. Your parents did a good job of raising you -- you are open to new ideas and you are devoted to the family you have made while still maintaining a relationship -- however strained -- with your parents.

One bit of advice I would offer: Counseling. It could be helpful to have a "disinterested" third party weigh in on the situation. You both need reinforcement to adjust to the fact that your parents are unlikely to change. So you and your wife -- and eventually your daughter -- will have to be the ones to adapt. A professional can help you with that.

 

[Kestra]

Under the circumstance, I would respect your wife's wishes. You may visit your parents on your own and certainly help them emotionally and financially , but as they have made it clear that they will not accept or respect your wife, and in effect, your daughter, I think they have made the choice for you. I would keep your family as far from them as possible, for their own emotional well-being.

So, not a total cut and run--but definitely a carefully planned retreat.

I'd say this, or even less contact (or none).

Your wife has been a saint, honestly. I don't say any of this lightly because I love my parents and my family so much. I know what it's like to have the overinvolved family that you can't cut out completely. There's so much love and affection ... and so much dysfunction!

My husband and I went through some difficult stuff with my family before we got married. Luckily everyone was patient and willing to put in the time and effort to forge a better relationship, and everyone loves him now. Everything else was so long ago it feels like a bad dream.

But if I had wanted to marry him and they hadn't supported my decision? They'd be out of my life.

I'm not a cruel person and I value my relationships with other people. But as an adult, I expect mature, adult relationships with other people. Even my family. I give them a lot more leeway than anyone else, but I still need a certain level of respect. And if they are that disrespectful to your wife and daughter as well ... I dunno. I wouldn't put up with that.

Family is an important thing, but having someone in your life is a privilege, not a right. I don't care if they are your parents or grandparents or siblings.

I've gone without communicating with one of my siblings and it was probably the most heartbreaking thing I've ever done. But it was absolutely the right decision for me at that time.

I can't tell you what is right or wrong here, but your wife has been incredibly patient. And having people in your life who won't respect you or your loved ones just seems like a bad decision.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

One thing I'm not clear on is your wife's feelings at the moment. Does she get lulled into enjoying having your parents in your daughter's life and then feel like it's a big slap in the face when the rejection once again hits her? Has she said she wants to remove your daughter from the contact or is she just on a roller coaster of emotion about it?

Now in my opinion it's possible for you to continue what has been a good relationship with your parents privately and make their wish to hide it their problem as much as possible, and not yours. This may mean that if confronted with a relative who they have kept this a secret from (for instance if one of them is sick in hospital and you meet there) you are completely open about who your wife is. You let them keep their secret but you don't keep it for them. It sounds as though they may be quite trapped by this secret, especially as it gets heavier as the years go by.

It may also be that rumor has spread and other people do know about you and your brother's marriages.

I would suggest you come up with an explanation for your daughter as she gets older that has some humor in it and isn't a heavy duty "you are a scandal" type explanation. Explain to her too that her grandparents are old, from another culture than what she is used to and they have hang ups and issues but love her very much. A lot of people end up in similar situations with grandchildren, not telling grandma their son/daughter is gay or living in sin or whatever. Certainly there are about a thousand life choices I would never tell my MIL her grandchildren had made. Your daughter will have to confront issues of religion in her life any way. Yes it will be hard to know and love people who keep her a secret but it really (IMO) does not have to be personally rejecting to her. Make it out to be a ridiculous by product of religion and culture and use it to help her appreciate that you and your wife and your family culture you have created strives to be far more flexible.

I have family that is extremely religious fundamentalist.. I was the scandal in marrying into this. I never relax around these people for many reasons but I encourage their relationship with my children because they are loving and positive within the confines of their own world views. It brings up religious and cultural issues but I hope to be setting a good example of how to be loving towards people who are different than us. That said I sympathize with your wife, it is very unpleasant to be the "bad" person who the son was not supposed to marry. I'm not very emotional but I can imagine for some people this would be very tough to navigate, it was awful enough for me. I think it's much harder on her than it will be on you daughter who may end up thinking you two are a very romantic story, love against the odds etc..

And finally if you need clearer boundaries, breaks etc.. do take them. My main point in this reply is that it doesn't have to be about rejection for your daughter. However she end up understanding this as she gets older depends on you two.

 

[wissaboo]

your parents are a product of how they were raised just like everyone else. It seems to me they want to accept your wife and daughter but feel there will be unacceptable consequences. I'd like to know how it is your extended family doesn't know you are married. Don't you talk to them?

 

[horatio83]

If your parents are themselves under pressure from their community yet have always tried to soften this pressure upon you throughout your entire life I'd say help then, if they are not under any peer pressure or have not tried to moderate it inside the family I'd say screw them.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

OP another point I wanted to make, you said you were quite hurt that one set of your grandparents only saw you once in 30 years. I think that is the rejecting part and if you cut off your daughter it is she who will be having that experience again. Children are quite capable of navigating grandparents whose values and beliefs sound like they come from another planet, they do not take this personally the way you and your wife would do. Not seeing them at all may just be a repeat of some negative family history (the absent grandparents).

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Clearly your parents care a great deal for your daughter, so I think it's time they get their priorities straight. What's more important to them, having a healthy relationship with their sons, daughters-in-law, and grandchildren, or keeping up appearances in the family and community?

They've already shared the information with the closest members of the family and a good friend, and the world didn't seem to collapse from that, so what are they so afraid of? Alienating relatives who aren't willing to give love of family more weight than tradition? Alienating friends who can't see the forest for the trees and realize that their traditions are already rapidly changing (judging by you and your brother's relationships with non-Muslims, your sister accepting it, your grandmother not wanting any of you to be excluded from her funeral, and the local religious leader making no mention of it...). Alienating community members who are not even close enough to trust with that information?

Loving a family member completely and being embarrassed and secretive about them for simply being who they are is not consistent. As harsh as it may sound given their emotional and physical state, I think you need to give your parents an ultimatum and tell them that if they want to be in the life of your wife and daughter, than they have to accept them for who they are and not shun them when others are around. They only have so many years and so many chances to interact with your daughter as they grow older and she grows up. Do they really want to miss out on that for the sake of tradition?

Who knows, maybe relieving the pressure of keeping this secret will ease the stress on them rather than increase it? Maybe it will give others in your community a chance to speak up that they have had similar tradition-bucking family members in the younger generation, because surely many of them do if your family's situation is a typical (if kept quiet) example and statistics about the numbers of mixed race and/or mixed religion couples bear out. If nothing else, it will certainly show which friends, family, and community members are truly the important ones in your life.

Whatever you decide, I wish you and your wife and daughter the best and hope that you're content with the decision. That's a rough situation having to choose between friends and family or (worse) family and family. I've had to go through it with my dad's side of the family (though for different reasons) and it's never easy or pleasant. Good luck.

 

[auntiehill]

I barely saw my paternal grandmother--maybe twice in my life? It didn't make me feel rejected at all. In fact, most of my father's family were strangers to me and I knew that it was because they had been cruel and abusive to my dad when he was younger. They weren't close and never got along. He didn't want contact with them, so it meant nothing to me that they weren't around. I never felt rejected; most of them just weren't in picture. We had our own extended family with our friends and neighbors. I never felt like I missed anything.

 

[propita]

Children are quite capable of navigating grandparents whose values and beliefs sound like they come from another planet, they do not take this personally the way you and your wife would do. Not seeing them at all may just be a repeat of some negative family history (the absent grandparents).

Really? My mother's mother said, I front of her three grandchildren, that she "only had love for one" of us. My father told her that if she ever said anything like that again, she would never see any of us, including her only child, my mother. Needless to say, there was no loving bond with this woman. Her loss.

As for OP, I was raised Jewish. When I started dating my now-husband, a non-Jew, I was threatened with being disowned. I told my parents they should not force me to choose, as they would not like my choice--I was not living my life by checking with them on everything. Now, up to this point, I had been "the good child" in most ways. Never rebelled, no real misbehavior, etc. My parents backed down. Years later, mom said that my husband would've been perfect if he had been Jewish. Oh, neither of my siblings married Jews. I'd say my parents did not instill a "need" to marry within the religion to their children.

 

[SeerSGB]

Under the circumstance, I would respect your wife's wishes. You may visit your parents on your own and certainly help them emotionally and financially , but as they have made it clear that they will not accept or respect your wife, and in effect, your daughter, I think they have made the choice for you. I would keep your family as far from them as possible, for their own emotional well-being.

So, not a total cut and run--but definitely a carefully planned retreat.

I'd say this, or even less contact (or none).

Your wife has been a saint, honestly. I don't say any of this lightly because I love my parents and my family so much. I know what it's like to have the overinvolved family that you can't cut out completely. There's so much love and affection ... and so much dysfunction!

My husband and I went through some difficult stuff with my family before we got married. Luckily everyone was patient and willing to put in the time and effort to forge a better relationship, and everyone loves him now. Everything else was so long ago it feels like a bad dream.

But if I had wanted to marry him and they hadn't supported my decision? They'd be out of my life.

I'm not a cruel person and I value my relationships with other people. But as an adult, I expect mature, adult relationships with other people. Even my family. I give them a lot more leeway than anyone else, but I still need a certain level of respect. And if they are that disrespectful to your wife and daughter as well ... I dunno. I wouldn't put up with that.

Family is an important thing, but having someone in your life is a privilege, not a right. I don't care if they are your parents or grandparents or siblings.

I've gone without communicating with one of my siblings and it was probably the most heartbreaking thing I've ever done. But it was absolutely the right decision for me at that time.

I can't tell you what is right or wrong here, but your wife has been incredibly patient. And having people in your life who won't respect you or your loved ones just seems like a bad decision.

You put it more politely than me.

I had a brush with a mild-form of what the OP is going through (If it wasn't the fact that I'm not Italian, it was the fact that I'm not catholic, or the fact I'm not Canadian). In short: Some people just can't be made happy, and has hard as it is, sometimes it just gotta cut 'em off.

My wife's grandparents were verbally abusive to my wife when she was growing up and people let them get by with it cause "It's just an Italian thing, it's the culture". She loves her grandparents, but I've made it clear that they are to have nothing to do with my kids (pro tip: Don't trash talk someone and slam their kids in Italian to their face and not expect them to ask another family member for a translation). Her grandmother hates the air I breath cause I'm not Italian and Catholic, I've made it clear that she (like her husband) can go to her grave without ever having seen the great-grandkids.

I'm a right bastard, fine. You don't like me fine. But you're not going to put my kids through your hell just cause "it's your culture"

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Children are quite capable of navigating grandparents whose values and beliefs sound like they come from another planet, they do not take this personally the way you and your wife would do. Not seeing them at all may just be a repeat of some negative family history (the absent grandparents).

Really? My mother's mother said, I front of her three grandchildren, that she "only had love for one" of us. My father told her that if she ever said anything like that again, she would never see any of us, including her only child, my mother. Needless to say, there was no loving bond with this woman. Her loss.

Obviously I am talking about in the context of a loving relationship which the OP says the grandparents have with their grand daughter.

 

[Danoz]

You sir, are an awesome husband and father, with life experience and burdens I can only begin to imagine. You seem to be handling it with grace and humility, and with love and consideration for all sides of your family. I could never presume to give you advice, your parents raised a great person-- I may, however, be asking you for advice someday! Just keep protecting your family the way you are, and hopefully someday the people who are closed off will be enlightened by your example.

 

[J.T.B.]

I've had my own brushes with religion-based intolerance, and I know they can be sad and life-changing. Here's what I'd say:

You are trying to respect your parents' POV, but they don't respect yours. There is no half-way, they are either with you or they're not, and here's why: Having them accept certain parts of your family and reject others is having an invidious effect, and is placing unnecessary stress on you and especially your wife and which will, over time, have a negative impact on your family.

I would explain to the parents, calmly and respectfully, that you are an adult, that you and your wife are committed partners and are going to run your family the way you see fit, and that is never going to change. Their refusal to accept your situation is having a negative impact on your family, and you will take steps to remove that negative influence, and if you have to you will cut off all contact between them and you, your wife and daughter.

Then, be prepared to go through with it. If they call, don't answer. If they send mail, don't respond. If you're both at a family gathering, stay on the other side of the room. If they want to know their granddaughter as she grows up, it all depends on how they accept her mother. They may grow up and change their attitude, but it may take years. Or they may never change. If they don't, you put it behind you and move on. It will be hard, but you concentrate on what's best for your family and you will eventually get used to it. You can still have a happy family, and your child will be fine, they can adapt to anything with the support of loving parents. You will find peace of mind. You will always know that you did what you could, and it was their choice and not yours.

It comes down to this: Are you going to be in control of your family's happiness, or are they? You can largely take control of this, if you're willing to cut your losses and walk away completely. There are enough stresses in life that you can't control, this doesn't have to be one. But hopefully it will not come to that. People can change their attitudes if presented with that kind of choice, I have seen it happen. From reading the OP, I think you are handling things very well. You are good parents, concentrate on that and everything will be OK. Best of luck,

Justin

 

[SeerSGB]

Yeah, at some point a chose is going to have to be made between the grandparents and your wife and daughter. I was lucky in that my wife, though she doesn't agree with me completely, has stood by me against her relatives--and some have even swung over to my side when they realized that their grandmother isn't someone that has to have a say in their lives; I have seen people end up getting divorced cause the strain of keeping it "private" and "well you can see them so long as the don't associate with me or the kids" eventually got to be to much.

I know the OP says his parents need him, but the fact is his wife and daughter need him more. I really don't see how there's a middle ground: You accept my wife and kids, or you don't associate with me at all.

 

[hamudm]

Wow. I sincerely thank you all for your heartfelt and insightful responses; it's truly appreciated! You've all given me a lot to think about.

I figure I'll answer a few questions at this point.

1. JiNX-01: r.e. counselling I like the idea of counselling and I have pondered it before. I think I may take a stab at it before I get to the issuing ultimatums stage. But, my parents being pretty reserved and old school, I don't know if they'll take to it. I won't know until I try!

2. Kestra I totally understand your position. You're right, my wife has been incredibly patient! I owe her a lot. I hope it's clear that in my mind her and my daughter come first. Thing is (and perhaps this is because of how I was raised), but I feel like I have an obligation to my parents to a degree as well. That duty, though is quickly becoming less and less obligatory in my eyes as this fiasco continues.

3. Teacake, r.e. wife's feelings: There was a point when my wife would get lulled into that false sense of security, only to have it ripped away. When we went to my grandmother's funeral, my uncles and my mother's cousin were VERY welcoming to us (my own cousin, was also, but he's more like my bro and I so he doesn't count ). During this two week period, we spent a lot time with my parents also, but as my wife was being so warmly welcomed, the day of the funeral, my mom just destroyed her emotionally. I hope it's clear that it wasn't my mother's intention to emotionally hurt my wife, but rather from her perspective, my mother truly believes we're being hurtful by not giving in and performing the sham conversion to Islam for my wife.

This is going to sound awful, but when my dad had his heart attack a few months ago (a month after the above funeral), he was in the hospital for six weeks. We went and visited him for hours on end, almost EVERY DAY. When I was travelling on business, my wife and daughter would go visit him, EVERY SINGLE DAY while I was away, just to make sure he was taken care of and that my baby girl could help lift his spirits. This is the truly sick part though, whenever some friends from my parents mosque would come to visit, we'd get herded out of the room. It was insulting, rude and just a coldcock slap in the face.

Obviously, since then, we've treated my parents and moreseo my father a bit delicately and not brought these issues up. But what's surprising is that they haven't even tried to bring things up so we can resolve it. What I'm thinking is is that they must feel we find their behaviour acceptable by way of our inaction.

Now after being burned a few times, I don't believe that my wife is very emotionally invested. She still cares in the sense they're my parents and wants them to be OK, but our daughter and us come first, a sentiment which I share.

4. Teacake: r.e. explanation for my daughter: This is what I'm struggling with now. I know that either way, I will have to explain

a) that my parents religion is messed up and keeps her grandparents from associating us with their group of friends

OR

b) why her grandparents aren't allowed to see her and it isn't because they hate her, but it was our decision for her well-being​

5. Wissaboo, r.e. extended family My mother's side of the family I have always been very, VERY close with. Even during our dating period, until the day she died, my grandmother and uncles did their best to try and mend the relationship between us and my parents... trying to come to a solution which they perceived would be best for everyone involved. I love them very much. So, to my uncles and grandmother, it was never a secret.

My mom's cousin found out when we went to visit my grandmother in hospital when she passed. But she was very welcoming and open. However, she was like a sister to my mom and a daughter to my grandmother, so her reaction was welcomed but expected.

Then there's my father's cousin who's a cardiac surgeon who helped consult on my father. He's a religious man, but not a zealot by any stretch. A good man and him and his wife have been very welcoming.

As for my father's side of the family, they don't know because they ARE zealots. I hate to say this, and perhaps this is inappropriate, but I've always viewed them as Pakistani/Muslim hillbillies, very religious, but not a critical thought in their head. I feel (and I hope I'm wrong) that their first reaction would be to tell my dad to ditch us for the sake of his soul. On that side I have probably at least a dozen cousins who are very close with everyone, but me, the first grandchild, has hardly heard a peep from them in 30 years... just a few phone calls. I'm in Vancouver while they're in Ontario, but you'd think in that time, that I would have earned a few visits or something. Nope... Nada. Quite frankly, I couldn't care less if they new my family or not; the only thing that pisses me off is the principle of the matter.

6. Teacake, r.e. negative family history and grandparents Yes, I don't want this to happen to my daughter as well. And although clearly they're (my parents) in the wrong, I find it frustrating that my wife doesn't see this side. Maybe part of me is being selfish trying to grasp at straws to salvage the relationship, but I do believe that this is a very real and distinct possibility and I don't want it for my child.

7. Locutus of Bored I think you may have hit the nail on the head. What I think we need to do is show my parents what they have to lose. What's more important? The love of your children and grandchildren or the opinions of some backwards, overly religious jackasses? Ultimately, they need to answer that question for themselves.

From a religious perspective, my mother raised me Muslim and I also keep myself in the know (knowledge is power after all!) so I know a thing or two about Islam, at least the way they're SUPPOSED to practice it. I can't see how their behaviour or worries could ever be rationalized within the context of their faith. Sadly, there's no way to prove it

8. Propita / SeerSBG That's super harsh and it saddens me. I hope things have worked out for you both for the better

9. Danoz Thank you very much; that's very flattering. Although I'm just trying to do the right thing. "Do unto others..." and all that good stuff.

10. J.T.B. Well said my friend. And I intend to do this. Sadly, my parents don't respond well to rationality. The counterargument has always been, that "one day you'll learn" or "you have to take the time to learn the teachings of the Quran" or "Religion is very central to our life and we can't ignore it."

​

So in summation, let's see how it goes. We're probably going to have to talk to them sooner rather than later. My parents keep trying to get closer and with this awkward barrier that exists, it's hard to enjoy the time with them, so it becomes a nuisance. It just makes me sad that there can't be a halfway. If we issue an ultimatum and limit them to birthdays, Eid/Christmas and mother's/father's days, those days will be filled with sadness and not joy... always.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Whatever happens, it sounds like your wife and daughter are extremely lucky to have such a loving and dedicated husband and father. Any difficulties they may experience from any estrangement with the extended family will hopefully be offset by the strong bond you have with them and the fantastic example you've set for your daughter. You really should be proud of that, and of the amount of empathy and understanding you've continued to show your parents and other relatives in the face of a lot of disrespect.

 

[propita]

Children are quite capable of navigating grandparents whose values and beliefs sound like they come from another planet, they do not take this personally the way you and your wife would do. Not seeing them at all may just be a repeat of some negative family history (the absent grandparents).

Really? My mother's mother said, I front of her three grandchildren, that she "only had love for one" of us. My father told her that if she ever said anything like that again, she would never see any of us, including her only child, my mother. Needless to say, there was no loving bond with this woman. Her loss.

Obviously I am talking about in the context of a loving relationship which the OP says the grandparents have with their grand daughter.

Ah.

But really, for all their being “loving” grandparents, are they really? They may “love” her, but they consider her an embarrassment in front of their friends. They want to have their cake (have the love of a grandchild) and eat it too (but not be embarrassed). The child WILL notice it, WILL ask about it, and likely will feel “what wrong with me?” when she understands--not realizing that the problem lies with them (the grandparents).

I think OP should spell things out to his parents, dying or not. Now’s the time for an epiphany, before they’re gone. Justin is dead on.

hamudm, you’re in a tough spot. You’ve given good thought to this, formed options, sought advice, and now will be taking the next step. You say you’re basically “lapsed” (I suspect like many posters here), do you think your daughter will think well of your religion, knowing that it considers her, well, unfit for company?

Oh, as for my family...my grandmother died a year ago, having missed out on a lifetime of love from her family. The rabbi officiating the funeral could only say that she was “honest” (she wasn’t)--he had no other positive thing to say, and he had known her easily 50 years, having studied with her father and been taught by her brother-in-law. My cousin (well, second cousin, since mom was an only child) said that this was the most bizarre funeral he had ever been to. Yup. Cold-hearted people aren’t mourned.

Which makes me curious...how much will you mourn your father, knowing that, were he to live a significantly longer time, you baby girl will surely notice these things. Things which will cause her pain and likely permanently and negatively affect her. Assumedly, you WILL mourn him, he is your father and assumedly loved you. But fond memories can be tarnished with later actions, yes?

 

[B.J.]

I can't offer any advice, but the way you describe your situation sheds some light about what my own maternal grandparents must have gone through. My grandfather was Baptist and my grandmother was Catholic, and at that time (1920s, I think), Catholics weren't allowed to marry anyone outside the Church. They were married by a Justice of the Peace, and their marriage was never recognized by the Church. It must have been tough for them too. They lived a long and happy life together, and I'm not sure what their relationship was like with their parents and family, but I don't think it was bad.

Thankfully, things are different today (at least in the US, according to some posts above). I'm Catholic, and my wife was (at the time of our marriage ~15 years ago) Church of Christ. We were married in a Baptist ceremony, all with the blessings of the Catholic Church. Things like that make me think that someday your own religion and family will be more accepting of your choices.