NCC -1701 (TOS).....

[BillJ]

With due respect, that makes no sense to me.

To me, this is like I shot home invaders due to fearing for my life and then texted the invaders friends and family to come to my home as that invader and kill them too!

Because it really isn't anything like that. A home owner isn't responsible for anything but the safety of who lives within those four walls. Plus, you are well aware of the limits, technologically, of the people around you in your area.

You sitting out on a frontier, you're going to want to be aware of what you could be fighting beyond that first beach head.

 

[fireproof78]

Because it really isn't anything like that. A home owner isn't responsible for anything but the safety of who lives within those four walls. Plus, you are well aware of the limits, technologically, of the people around you in your area.

You sitting out on a frontier, you're going to want to be aware of what you could be fighting beyond that first beach head.

Agree to disagree at this point because the Gorn response strikes me as entirely based on a wish for violence than any measure of self-defense. The trap part is what makes this problematic for me.

 

[BillJ]

Agree to disagree at this point because the Gorn response strikes me as entirely based on a wish for violence than any measure of self-defense. The trap part is what makes this problematic for me.

I thought the whole point of Trek was to try to see things differently, to stretch the imagination? The Gorn were presented as different in "Arena".

 

[fireproof78]

I thought the whole point of Trek was to try to see things differently, to stretch the imagination? The Gorn were presented as different in "Arena".

That were confirmed as not going to give humans mercy the way Kirk would have.

So, they might be different but that doesn't make them any more understandable simply because people give them the benefit of the doubt. The text doesn't support it. The interpretation of it is what creates it.

 

[1001001]

Can't there be one thread that touches on SNW that doesn't devolve into debating the Gorn? This is even a thread with TOS in the title!

No.

Why?

Well, one reason is that there are to be NO SPOILERS for Season 2 of SNW discussed openly until December (and that's just episode 1).

 

[BillJ]

Well, one reason is that there are to be NO SPOILERS for Season 2 of SNW discussed openly until December (and that's just episode 1).

I didn't know there were spoilers. I just thought we were talking about what happened in season one.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, one reason is that there are to be NO SPOILERS for Season 2 of SNW discussed openly until December (and that's just episode 1).

Apologies.

Was just thinking of Season 1.

 

[1001001]

I didn't know there were spoilers. I just thought we were talking about what happened in season one.

Apologies.

Was just thinking of Season 1.

I understand.

I was providing a reason why it's not a good idea to discuss SNW in this thread, not pointing to any particular spoiler.

I'm sure there's tons of this in the SNW Forum.

 

[UssGlenn]

How's this for an analogy, after shooting a trespasser, the landowner puts up a big sign saying "free candy" so they can attract more people to shoot.

 

[Farscape One]

Indeed, but a lot more grace is given to the Gorn than even the episode does.

Except, the Predator was still in Dutch's territory. The Gorn had destroyed invaders and then invited more invaders to come.





That's fine.

I treat it as a different production of the same in universe events.

Would they invite in another Federation trip by a trick and deception to try and destroy the protective of an entire region of space?

And yes, some of the other species are monstrous. So are humans. Definitely the Klingons, who had to make no concessions as part of the Khitomer Accords, despite TOS showing slave labor, aggressive expansionist, and blatant specist reactions towards humans.


No.

Why?

Actually, Dutch wasn't even in his own territory. He and his unit were in Central America.

Regarding the Khitomer Accords...

That was a treaty to essentially end hostilities between the Federation and the Klingon Empire. It wasn't a pact for them to join the Federation, so they didn't need to stop any of their practices. At least, not anything against the Federation or its colonies, worlds, etc. The Federation can't tell another power what to do if they aren't a member.

 

[fireproof78]

Actually, Dutch wasn't even in his own territory. He and his unit were in Central America.

Never seen it so I will defer to your knowledge.

That was a treaty to essentially end hostilities between the Federation and the Klingon Empire. It wasn't a pact for them to join the Federation, so they didn't need to stop any of their practices. At least, not anything against the Federation or its colonies, worlds, etc. The Federation can't tell another power what to do if they aren't a member

Except, the Federation was expected to make concessions, so clearly the treaty had some implications and obligations for the signatories.

 

[Farscape One]

Never seen it so I will defer to your knowledge.

Except, the Federation was expected to make concessions, so clearly the treaty had some implications and obligations for the signatories.

You've never seen PREDATOR???!!!

It's one of THE greatest action movies of all time! One of the most quotable movies of all time, too. (I'd probably put it second only to DIE HARD.)

Can I ask why you've never seen it?


Regarding the Khitomer Accords...

The concessions were likely more about territory than anything else, with some aid going to the Klingons for what happened to Praxis.

 

[fireproof78]

Can I ask why you've never seen it?

Not interested in it thus far.

Regarding the Khitomer Accords...

The concessions were likely more about territory than anything else, with some aid going to the Klingons for what happened to Praxis.

Which means that components of a peace treaty can involve the changing of territories. In other words, the Gorn would be within their right to say "This is our land." And Starfleet would negotiate.

Instead, the Gorn attached Cetus III and baited a trap for a starship.

 

[Lord Garth]

The Predator isn't a masterpiece, but it's fun nonetheless.

You can't go wrong with Arnold Schwarzenegger. At least not in the '80s.

 

[Farscape One]

There's one thing no one has considered. (At least, not that I have seen anywhere.)

The Gorn that attacked Cestus III in "ARENA" might have been a rogue. Yes, the Gorn government could very well have seen that as an invasion, but before they attempt to contact the Federation, that Gorn captain went and attacked on his own in the name of all Gorn.

We've seen rogue captains before in the franchise... Kruge in STIII and Dukat after he got the Bird of Prey spring to mind.

 

[fireproof78]

There's one thing no one has considered. (At least, not that I have seen anywhere.)

The Gorn that attacked Cestus III isn "ARENA" might have been a rogue. Yes, the Gorn government could very well have seen that as an invasion, but before they attempt to contact the Federation, that Gorn captain went and attacked on his own in the name of all Gorn.

We've seen rogue captains before in the franchise... Kruge in STIII and Dukat after he got the Bird of Prey spring to mind.

@Ricky Spanish noted this in one of his posts which is completely fair to me. Also, you forgot about Captain Klaa from ST V.

Yes, I agree. Which is why I'm hard pressed to give the Gorn the benefit of the doubt when the episode itself is very ambiguous as to their intentions, and that people basically buy the aggressor's stance whole cloth without any sort of doubt.

 

[Farscape One]

The Predator isn't a masterpiece, but it's fun nonetheless.

You can't go wrong with Arnold Schwarzenegger. At least not in the '80s.

THE PREDATOR (2018) was awful. PREDATOR was excellent.

 

[Lord Garth]

THE PREDATOR (2018) was awful. PREDATOR was excellent.

Oh God, you KNOW what I meant!

 

[Tallguy]

So which was better, the Enterprise in Predator or the Enterprise in Raw Deal?

 

[Tomalak]

Rod Roddenberry is appealing to the current owner of the model to get in touch with him.

https://twitter.com/RodRoddenberry/status/1720477030322708504?t=fTb0gD7TEhhEt_K1XVogIA&s=19