Naval warfare in the 21st Century and the advent of Railguns

[USS KG5]

Re: Naval warfare in the 21st Century and the advent of Rail

John_Picard said:

Fire said:
Future UK Aircraft Carriers

Facts and Figures about the new Carriers

Pictures of the Future Carriers.

This is indeed a great time for the Royal Navy, especially with the new Type-45 Destroyers.

and to think a small island nation like the UK can command such a powerful Military.

Those "ski jumps" always get me. Those artist renditions are awesome! :thumbsup:

I just hope the Argentinians will do the decent thing and wait until 2014 to get militaristic again.

The loss of the Sea Harrier FRS 2 currently leaves the RN with no effective fighter support, another Falklands would end very badly for the UK right now.

Does anyone know the capabilities of the radar to be fitted to the JSF when it comes into service on the carriers and how it will compare to the truly superb array of the Sea Harrier?

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Re: Naval warfare in the 21st Century and the advent of Rail

USS KG5 said:
I just hope the Argentinians will do the decent thing and wait until 2014 to get militaristic again.

The loss of the Sea Harrier FRS 2 currently leaves the RN with no effective fighter support, another Falklands would end very badly for the UK right now.

Does anyone know the capabilities of the radar to be fitted to the JSF when it comes into service on the carriers and how it will compare to the truly superb array of the Sea Harrier?

I'm sure they could quickly load up the Eurofighters to take on the Argies.

 

[USS KG5]

Re: Naval warfare in the 21st Century and the advent of Rail

Fire said:

USS KG5 said:
I just hope the Argentinians will do the decent thing and wait until 2014 to get militaristic again.

The loss of the Sea Harrier FRS 2 currently leaves the RN with no effective fighter support, another Falklands would end very badly for the UK right now.

Does anyone know the capabilities of the radar to be fitted to the JSF when it comes into service on the carriers and how it will compare to the truly superb array of the Sea Harrier?

I'm sure they could quickly load up the Eurofighters to take on the Argies.

Sadly no - there are no British flight decks that can take them and they cannot operate from the Falklands yet - hopefully they will replace the flight of F3s on the Falklands with Eurofighters at some point.

One flight of Eurofighters properly supported could prevent an invasion - its that simple.

 

[zephramc]

Re: Naval warfare in the 21st Century and the advent of Rail

John_Picard said:
The Navy has been planning to incorporate the EM launch capability for years. It's also well beyond time for that turd, CVN-65, to be scrapped.

Why are you calling the Big-E a turd? She was the first nuclear powered aircraft carrier and has been serving the USN faithfully for over 40 years. I had a friend who served aboard her back in the 80's. He had some really funny stories about his time onboard, like the ship being adrift for a day or two without power.

 

[philbob]

Re: Naval warfare in the 21st Century and the advent of Rail

any one see anything on the Japanese Defense forces new 19DD project..ive been looking for info on it

supposedly its a escort for the Kongo/Atago class

 

[John Picard]

Re: Naval warfare in the 21st Century and the advent of Rail

zephramc said:

John_Picard said:
The Navy has been planning to incorporate the EM launch capability for years. It's also well beyond time for that turd, CVN-65, to be scrapped.

Why are you calling the Big-E a turd? She was the first nuclear powered aircraft carrier and has been serving the USN faithfully for over 40 years. I had a friend who served aboard her back in the 80's. He had some really funny stories about his time onboard, like the ship being adrift for a day or two without power.

That partially sums it up. I was on that ship once. No one there knows how to clean. The 8 Destroyer reactors idea to power the ship was a flash of brilliance, and that turd had been running on 7 for many, many years.

No matter how you polish it, a turd is a turd. The design obviously sucked ass, because that was a one-shot wonder.

 

[SamuraiBlue]

Re: Naval warfare in the 21st Century and the advent of Rail

philbob said:
any one see anything on the Japanese Defense forces new 19DD project..ive been looking for info on it

supposedly its a escort for the Kongo/Atago class

According to Wiki Japan the Kongo Class will be mainly concentarate it's role for missle defense while the new 19DD will be escort and air patrol using it's advanced Phased array radar system. It adopts the new mast design first introduced in the Atago class and newly developed domestic FCS-3 weapons management system.

Here is the Japanese entry if you are interested;

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/19DD

 

[philbob]

Re: Naval warfare in the 21st Century and the advent of Rail

handsome ship

 

[estrea]

Re: Naval warfare in the 21st Century and the advent of Rail

When they de-comm the Big E, I hope some city or state adopts her. And not just because I'm a Trekkie. I have personal connections to the CV-65 and later when she became CVN-65. She has indeed served her nation well.

 

[philbob]

Re: Naval warfare in the 21st Century and the advent of Rail

yes she has

 

[USS KG5]

Re: Naval warfare in the 21st Century and the advent of Rail

estrea said:
When they de-comm the Big E, I hope some city or state adopts her. And not just because I'm a Trekkie. I have personal connections to the CV-65 and later when she became CVN-65. She has indeed served her nation well.

I'd be AMAZED if the Big-E is not already a target for preservation, BUT keeping her "clean" would be an expensive and difficult process - could they remove her reactors for decontamination and keep her intact?

If the reactors are not removed and just shut down, hoiw long is her shielding rated for? Can the ship be preserved indefinitely with those eight reactors in place?

 

[estrea]

Re: Naval warfare in the 21st Century and the advent of Rail

USS KG5 said:

I'd be AMAZED if the Big-E is not already a target for preservation, BUT keeping her "clean" would be an expensive and difficult process - could they remove her reactors for decontamination and keep her intact?

If the reactors are not removed and just shut down, hoiw long is her shielding rated for? Can the ship be preserved indefinitely with those eight reactors in place?

Unfortunately, I am off from work at the moment and cannot ask the one person I would trust to give me a straight answer regarding the nuclear contamination issues.

It is my understanding (and I could be very wrong on this) of Naval Tradition in the U.S. Navy that anyone who serves aboard her at the time of decommissioning is first-choice to join the "Association." I am hoping that the Tradition will broaden to anyone who has served aboard ships at anytime or at the very least, while they were in a war zone. Perhaps the crew at the time of decommissioning could be "Plank Owners." My point is, there are officer's state rooms which have the names of pilots who did not return (ie, were shot down over Vietnam) over their doors.

Maybe I'm just getting sentimental in my old age...even though I'm not past 50 yet. Or it's a Southern thing. <shrug>

 

[adv1701]

Re: Naval warfare in the 21st Century and the advent of Rail

The japanese ship looks like a modified Arleigh Burke. I thought the Royal Navy was transitioning away from a blue water navy to more coastal defense. Sad indeed if that is the case for a country with such a rich naval history.

 

[RAMA]

Re: Naval warfare in the 21st Century and the advent of Rail

philbob said:
... Well naval fans what do you think...
gonna see a return of the battleship
carriers are too expensive and there is now a global trend toward Large Amphibs and smaller carriers

plus the strike distances and destructive potentional of the EM railguns equiped ships will equal that of a crusie missle or airstrike

but there will alway be need for a carrier for air cover now

any other opinions?

Your "battleships" will be glorified coastal assault ships, like gunboats at the turn of the last century. They'll be missle warehouses (cruise missles still outrange future railguns). They'll be smaller, armored with Kevlar and similar materials, but not with thick armor of any kind.

The small carrier "trend" includes just a handful of nations and started back in the early 80s with the HMS Invincible Class. Though some of the major powers are planning larger carriers.

Most countires don't have "amphibs" of any kind.

I'm afraid the future of naval warefare will be rather boring, as none of the ships will probably engage each other unless one of them is about 30-40 feet long.

Edit: I found a cool link while looking for all the world's aircraft carriers...a plan view of all the carriers: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/carriers.htm


RAMA

 

[rType]

Re: Naval warfare in the 21st Century and the advent of Rail

So what's happening with the Ohio SSBNs? Those that aren't being converted to SSGNs, that is? Unlike the other major Cold War-era USN platforms there appears to be no replacement in sight.

 

[adv1701]

Re: Naval warfare in the 21st Century and the advent of Rail

The day for ship to ship engagements and all the romance surronding it is gone. It's a video game age and it's easier and safer to lob missles and projectiles from the horizon.

 

[USS KG5]

Re: Naval warfare in the 21st Century and the advent of Rail

estrea said:
Maybe I'm just getting sentimental in my old age...even though I'm not past 50 yet. Or it's a Southern thing. <shrug>

I would not beat yourself up - I'm British and I would be sad to see the Big-E scrapped.

Too much British heritage has been lossed, of the big gun Battleships of the RN in the 20th century the only survivor is HMS Belfast, merely a large light cruiser.

No Vanguard, no Renown, no KG5, no Duke Of York, no Nelson or Warspite.

Its a shame and should not be repeated.

 

[estrea]

Re: Naval warfare in the 21st Century and the advent of Rail

Thank you, USS KG5. I needed that. The city I reside in has a bad habit of tearing down historic buildings/sites to build "new and improved" buildings. Preservation is not one of our strong suites here. I learned just last night someone doesn't like the "old" look of one of the branches of the public library and it is to be razed. I'm a bit touchy. "He who forgets the past is condemned to repeat it." Can't remember who said that right this moment, but it seems appropriate.

 

[philbob]

Re: Naval warfare in the 21st Century and the advent of Rail

we are definitly a throw away society... it could be worse though the Big E wont be taken to the shipbreakers of Alang... that place is just dreadful...ive seen pictures of the installation and i actually agree with greenpeace. it sickend my stomach to think any US Warships were sent there for scraping

 

[estrea]

Re: Naval warfare in the 21st Century and the advent of Rail

<there's not a crying Graemlin, and I can't get the sad smiley to load> I had to Dogpile (it's a search engine) "Shipbreakers of Alang" -- the results nearly rent my heart. India? Aids? Toxic waste? What in the name of Neptune is anybody thinking? No, wrong question, they *aren't* thinking. And I got sad just looking at the ships' graveyard -- I won't say where. But at least they're all still in one piece more or less, may not be seaworthy, ...well, we've got about seven years to find her a home. If I can get through the next month, I'll put it at the top of my To Do List. Best I can do.