NASA scientists advisors on new "Star Trek"

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Lloyd_Dobler said:
Yeah, I agree there. Pajama-uniforms were bad, story was weak, but the rest was amazing. I thought the Engineering set was great.

Of course, the refit Enterprise was the best!

The story wasn't weak, just poorly paced (IMO).

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

The God Thing said:
...Don't you think it suggestive that the unnamed Voyager PI would specificaly invoke incompetence when choosing an example to illustrate the issue of Porco's job security?...

TGT

TGT --
You may be right -- I've only read good things about her from a professional standpoint, but maybe those positive perceptions of her ability as a planetary scientist were written by her supporters. It sounds as if you may have other published information and anectdotal information rebutting the "glowing reviews" (i.e. she's a "despicable cow")

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Jackson_Roykirk said:

The God Thing said:
...Don't you think it suggestive that the unnamed Voyager PI would specificaly invoke incompetence when choosing an example to illustrate the issue of Porco's job security?...

TGT

TGT --
You may be right -- I've only read good things about her from a professional standpoint, but maybe those positive perceptions of her ability as a planetary scientist were written by her supporters. It sounds as if you may have other published information and anectdotal information rebutting the "glowing reviews" (i.e. she's a "despicable cow")

I've always had a major issue with throwing around that sort of hostility and attack-based-language for someone who's not there to defend themself.

I, personally, find some people to be utterly reprehensible (ie, Hillary Clinton or John McCain) but that's not the appropriate thing for this forum, and if I was going to make an attack, I'd want it to be one that could (and ideally WOULD) be able to be responded to by the person in question.

Just tossing around "this woman is a COW" is particularly UGLY, IMHO. I mean, not just hateful but also sexist... sheesh...

I don't know if she's a dishonest, dishonorable person... nothing I've seen in the past brief few websearch results I've seen would indicate that, or that she's viewed that way by her peers (as indicated by her reception at the Monterey symposium ... I lived there once upon a time, by the way... wonderful place... why are all MY conferences in places like Little Rock?!?!?)

So instead of putting out flames without fully supporting them, I'd recommend putting out an ARGUMENT (and not just telling us to "go check it out for ourselves") if you want to convince us she's a bad person. Also, pointing out what your basis of knowledge is (ie, is this PERSONAL knowledge or just rumor-mongering?).

She may well be a reprehensible human being, but simply being TOLD that by someone on an internet message board is not the sort of thing that's likely to convince me of it. Especially since my limited exposure to her tells me that she SEEMS to be a decent sort, at least at the surface.

As for someone not getting his plaque on a ship... well... I'd really, REALLY want to know the WHOLE story. Was it a trade-off for something more important? Was it a timing issue? Was it that the artist didn't do the job as he was requested to do it? Was it pure personal animosity?

There are two sides to every story... and then, there's the truth, which is USUALLY found someplace in between.

 

[Plum]

Well, it is nice to have someone, whom I believe is competent enough, to give to the post production of Star Trek some actual science. That can only be good. Like any production, it can only benefit from 'consultant' people providing real world insight.

NASA politics aside... thanks for the insight TGT.

 

[Maxwell Everett]

The God Thing said:
Oh, this is beautiful. Porco is the despicable cow who screwed astronomical artist Jon Lomberg out of rightful credit for the "Diamond Disk" message plaque he designed for the Cassini orbiter, and which was ultimately abandoned by NASA due to the ugly squabble going public(*). How utterly appropriate that somebody like that should be involved in a film project like this.

TGT

* Gregory Benford gave a detailed account of the sleazy episode in his non-fiction text, Deep Time: How Humanity Communicates Across Millennia (Avon Books, 1999).

And for sake of completeness, here is Porco's side of it, posted at Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy Blog:

About the Voyager-style Cassini message, I’m afraid you have the vector in entirely the wrong direction. I was not the one who put an end to that Project. It was Lomberg’s threat of a lawsuit to NASA that put an end to it, because he was worried he wouldn’t get the major credit. You didn’t read that in Benford’s book, did you? Of course not: they are good friends. And Benford was only peripherally associated with the Project and worked with us for only a few months. So, he wrote a story about which he knew essentially nothing about first hand, except what happened in the first 2 or 3 months of a project that went on for 2 years. His story was shamelessly lopsided and incomplete.

And here is Lomberg's side of the story:

Eventually I proposed my idea to Carolyn Porco, a scientist working on the Cassini mission, who presented the concept to both NASA and the European Space Agency... Over the next two years Porco, Simon Bell, and I fleshed out the idea into a final design and secured most of the funding for the project... Porco assumed the task of acting as liaison with the Cassini project and administering the funds I had raised, through her university... Porco began work on acquiring the graphics showing the Cassini Mission itself... Porco had managed to raise a small amount through her University, but not nearly enough... First differences arose between Carolyn Porco (the Cassini liaison scientist) and I over the issues of who had the right to complete the project, determine its final contents, and receive credit for it. Meanwhile, NASA was growing increasingly nervous about the fact that the funding for this project had come from Fuji-Xerox, a Japanese company, who in return for their money expected -- and had been promised -- to have their corporate logo placed somewhere on the diamond. NASA had at first acquiesced to this, but later changed its mind... Part of the reason the Cassini diamond message failed was that there was no proper oversight of the process.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Guys...regardless of your personal feelings about an individual, please do not refer to them in derogatory terms such as 'cow'.

That is really unnecessary.

I have no objection to you guys discussing the issue of this woman's work or qualifications for inclusion in the Trek XI 'hard' science team...but there is no need to stir the pot with editorial commentary such as that.

Thanks.

 

[S'kai]

If only there'd been a compelling STORY to go along with all of that...

Wha ... you didn't think The Changeling needed to be recycled?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Maxwell Everett said:

The God Thing said:
Oh, this is beautiful. Porco is the despicable cow who screwed astronomical artist Jon Lomberg out of rightful credit for the "Diamond Disk" message plaque he designed for the Cassini orbiter, and which was ultimately abandoned by NASA due to the ugly squabble going public(*). How utterly appropriate that somebody like that should be involved in a film project like this.

TGT

* Gregory Benford gave a detailed account of the sleazy episode in his non-fiction text, Deep Time: How Humanity Communicates Across Millennia (Avon Books, 1999).

And for sake of completeness, here is Porco's side of it, posted at Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy Blog:

About the Voyager-style Cassini message, I’m afraid you have the vector in entirely the wrong direction. I was not the one who put an end to that Project. It was Lomberg’s threat of a lawsuit to NASA that put an end to it, because he was worried he wouldn’t get the major credit. You didn’t read that in Benford’s book, did you? Of course not: they are good friends. And Benford was only peripherally associated with the Project and worked with us for only a few months. So, he wrote a story about which he knew essentially nothing about first hand, except what happened in the first 2 or 3 months of a project that went on for 2 years. His story was shamelessly lopsided and incomplete.

And here is Lomberg's side of the story:

Eventually I proposed my idea to Carolyn Porco, a scientist working on the Cassini mission, who presented the concept to both NASA and the European Space Agency... Over the next two years Porco, Simon Bell, and I fleshed out the idea into a final design and secured most of the funding for the project... Porco assumed the task of acting as liaison with the Cassini project and administering the funds I had raised, through her university... Porco began work on acquiring the graphics showing the Cassini Mission itself... Porco had managed to raise a small amount through her University, but not nearly enough... First differences arose between Carolyn Porco (the Cassini liaison scientist) and I over the issues of who had the right to complete the project, determine its final contents, and receive credit for it. Meanwhile, NASA was growing increasingly nervous about the fact that the funding for this project had come from Fuji-Xerox, a Japanese company, who in return for their money expected -- and had been promised -- to have their corporate logo placed somewhere on the diamond. NASA had at first acquiesced to this, but later changed its mind... Part of the reason the Cassini diamond message failed was that there was no proper oversight of the process.

Having read all that as well as Benford's account of it, I'm not at all persuaded that Porco did anything wrong. Certainly sounds like a lot of childish ego involved, particularly on Lomberg's part.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Seriously! Can we PLEEEEZE get back to bashing NASA? That's WAY more fun!

 

[gobstopper]

Yippy, yet another reason that Star Trek XI will suck bites the dust! :thumbsup:

 

[Phantassm]

PKTrekGirl said:
Guys...regardless of your personal feelings about an individual, please do not refer to them in derogatory terms such as 'cow'.

That is really unnecessary.

I have no objection to you guys discussing the issue of this woman's work or qualifications for inclusion in the Trek XI 'hard' science team...but there is no need to stir the pot with editorial commentary such as that.

Thanks.

...And TGT has been posting things like that for how long? At any rate-glad Nasa is on board.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Thank you Maxwell Everett --

There are certainly two sides to every "he said/she said" story. It sounds as if the biggest loser was the 'diamond message' that didn't get to go to Saturn.

Science and technical advisors aren't going to add anything substantial to the plot anyway -- or even 'the vision'; they are just there to make sure the science is somewhat believable. Star Trek has pushed the boundaries of 'somewhat believable' many time in the past, but I was always okay with that, since Star Trekk IS only a work of fiction. I have no problem suspending disbelief (to a point) for 2 hrs.

 

[Tamek]

I liked this lady's speech, and I even earned something from it.

Britain, you've been warned. We will drop giant enchilada's on you if you don't respect.

 

[Blip]

Tamek said:
Britain, you've been warned. We will drop giant enchilada's on you if you don't respect.

Uhh, what?

 

[Tralah]

Heh, watch her speech that Trekmovie.com linked and then you'll know what he's talking about.