Both, I think. Basically everyone.
They did (try to?) kill the prisinors on the planet where Opaka stranded in S1, who were never connected to the Wormhole Aliens.
Nana Visitor says no to Vedek Kira
- Thread starter DS9forever
- Start date
That's the impression I got...everyone else was fair game for the usual conquering and enslavement by them, as they were villainy villain group. They weren't all the same species though I may have imagined that. They were like The Holy Roman Catholic Islamic Jihadi Federation Inquisition. There may have been a comfy chair, and their main weapon was faith and a big gun...their two main weapons were faith, a big gun, a mad cardassian who had......their three main weapons were....I'll come in again shall I?
I know that the two words get lazily slammed together, but there isn't much particularly Jewish about the direction the Prophets took in the late seasons.
They aren't lazily slammed together, it's a term, Christianity is revised from Judaism at its root. Together with Islam, they form the Abrahamic faiths. Ironic as Abraham has precursor in Ancient Greek legend. (Likely a common root.) If the show goes Christian. Unless it gets extremely specific, by default it also goes Jewish.
Now...I don't think it did much than it had already, but the figure of Sisko in Bajoran faith is Messianic. The Bajoran caste system is closer to its Hindu inspiration but shares similarities with bits of Old Testament family tradition etc. Overall it isn't as Judeo Christian as those unfamiliar with either tend to think, but it has undeniable influence. Now...Judeo-Christian is a silly word, but it's at least partially logical, though I think the Judeo part is redundant...there is no other form after all. It therefore is a clumsy way of saying Abrahamic Faiths except Islam. Or 'Western Religion' by which it mainly means American.
I am sorry but I fail to see what's abrahamic about the prophets.
Which is basically the entire inspiration for the Ascendant plot. It was intended to demonstrate how such seemingly contradictory religions can actually come from exactly the same root, as for example the three Abrahamic religions.
Well I'm not all that informed or interested in religions, but I gather they mean the whole good versus evil, angels versus demons, christ versus anti-christ thing.
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Problem is we don't know they are contradictory, it's not shown in the story. Worse, given the Prophets intervention in the past, this is all part of their 'plan' . It's muddy.
In terms of the good vs evil, Angels vs Demons, etc...well, it's hardly unique to Christianity. And most of that doesn't appear in the religion itself, and more in other fiction playing with it as an inspiration. Largely because that stuff is already at play in humanity itself, and makes for exciting drama. A chunk of the Sisko stuff is very Christ like, but then it always was. He's the one who shows the gods what it means to be mortal in the very first episode after all. On the other hand, there are other similar figures occurring throughout earths history, including simpler versions involving no gods whatsoever. At its heart it's about the feared other, the one with the power to wipe you out, discovering your people are not so different and have value, and so forming into peaceful coexistence. Qs Trial in other words. Even that had a God made man to walk among us, as well as the inverse. We see that continue in Voyager.
In that sense, Ds9 is no more a religious fable than TNG is, it's just more open about it.
There are many religions that have a good vs. evil paradigm and are in no way related to abrahamic religions. I mean the Bajorans never even talk about what happens after they're dead. Have you noticed that? That's the main subject of conversation of most Christians, in fact that part of their recruiting patter. Bajorans are not proselytes , Kira is not bothered by the lack of faith of other people, not even Odo. And she never ever tries to convert him. That's not very Christian, IMO, who are constantly trying to justify themselves and trying to get new people, even unconsciously. So you see why I am not convinced that this is related in any way to the abrahamic religions.
Or indeed like modern atheists, who are always trying to justify themselves and trying to get new people, or at least get a dig in, even unconsciously.
I am talking about the core paradigms that we know of them, so yes....the Bajorans never do talk about their afterlife or if there is one, we never see chains or torpedo tubes being fired into the wormhole as a burial ritual that almost would be expected under the circumstances. We do have the concept of Pagh of course, which seems similar to soul or destiny.
So I take it that you're agreeing that there is very little in common between the Bajoran faith and abrahamic religions, or are you?
There is very little in common aye. The few commonalities also exist elsewhere. It's like the discussion of how the Discovery looks like Kelvin Timeline all over again.
It is lazily slammed together, having no import before WWI in the effort to bring about wide support of the entirety of the American population in the defense of Europe. And given that Judaism does not indulge any discussion in a metaphysical battle between good and evil, IT HAS NO PLACE IN THIS DISCUSSION. Calling it a default is itself lazy on your part.
I am sorry...Christianity branches off from Judaism does it not? Christianity itself isn't exactly up to its ears in metaphysical battles in its own New Testament either....and that's not escaping the point that it wasn't me who brought it into this discussion in the first place. It's a default insofar as it is a term used, out there, in wider, non Trek fan society. It's the default for American Hollywood productions to a certain extent too, with the dominant, or at least most powerful, religions in the United States and particularly Hollywood, being either Judaism or Christianity. With differing levels of orthodoxy or denomination or sect of course.
It may well have its roots in WWI and the enmity with the Ottoman Empire, but that doesn't stop it being a word that people use. You may think it's lazily slammed together, but the rest of the world doesn't seem to, and given how one of those religions branches off from the other, it's hard to say it is incorrect. You can nag it for not including other Abrahamic faiths, but that's about it.
Trust me, I am quite familiar with both Judaism and Christianity, and a fair amount with Islam. Us young metropolitan folk in the UK become better than some diplomats by the time we all sit down for a kebab together in secondary school, and you can throw in some Sikhs, Hindus, maybe a Buddhist or two and an Atheist for accuracy at that table.
So...calm down. We are discussing Bajoran religion as an offshoot of discussing Kiras position in it. That included talking about real world religions as parallels. Kira basically went off to be space Pope. Someone said they felt Bajoran religion went too Judeo Christian, but some of us don't think that's the case.
Embracing a less sophisticated polemic in the name of greater cultural sophistication?
Fascinating.
I haven't the slightest idea of what you're talking about.
The things the new ship has in common with the Kelvin ships, it has in common with other Trek ships.
The things the Bajoran Relgion has in common with what people have referred to as Judeo Christian religion, it also has in common with other real world religions.
In neither case can a be said to be like b, because the common ground is shared by c also.
We call it 'making friends at school' if you refer to my humorous display of familiarity with disparate religious groups, Spock.
Simple Logic.
Ok.
It sounds to me like you are justifying lumping large swaths of people together by telling me you have a Jewish friend, a Sikh friend, a Muslim friend, ...
Religion has a way of bringing people together, in a peaceful way, it's amazing! What would we do without it?
