Names of the Original Series Starships ?
- Thread starter Bones1864
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^For the RN, at least back to 1705, and for the French, even further.
I'll reiterate one of my standard Trek criticisms here, jus because it's slightly on-topic.
Naming the starships after our own famous warships seemed cool in the 60s, but lately I've wondered how it makes sense given their mission - peaceful contact with alien races who may not share our attitudes.
Alien: "What does the name of your ship, 'Yorktown,' mean?"
Capt: "It's named for a famous battle in the American Revolution."
Alien: "Explain 'Revolution'."
Capt gives a quick rundown.
Alien:"You name your ships for battle? For rebellion? For revolt against your king? Disgusting!! How can we trust such a people?! Will you war against us? LEAVE our planet!" (Planetary defense batteries lock on...)
Naming the starships after our own famous warships seemed cool in the 60s, but lately I've wondered how it makes sense given their mission - peaceful contact with alien races who may not share our attitudes.
Alien: "What does the name of your ship, 'Yorktown,' mean?"
Capt: "It's named for a famous battle in the American Revolution."
Alien: "Explain 'Revolution'."
Capt gives a quick rundown.
Alien:"You name your ships for battle? For rebellion? For revolt against your king? Disgusting!! How can we trust such a people?! Will you war against us? LEAVE our planet!" (Planetary defense batteries lock on...)
Forbin said:
Which is why they send Enterprise on first-contact missions, 'cause her name is reltively inoffensive.
Well, luckily, they never ran into a colony founded by Terran Frenchmen.
If the alien is that nervous about the warlike or non-warlike nature of a Starfleet ship and its crew, I'd think he'd be a little more concerned about the fact that the Captain and his ship is heavily armed with extremely powerful weapons rather than the minutiae of the ship names' obscure origin.
Captain Kirk: We come in peace.
Alien: You're the one who threatened to destroy the planet Eminiar!
Robert
Forbin said:
And if your loyaties are to the south, it would be "Virginia," not "Merrimac." Read a little history, Dorothy.
"Virginia? Blasphemy! Those racist pigs just stole it and renamed her."
"They burnt the thing to the waterline and rebuilt what was left as an ironclad. A fucking ironclad. Made with iron. Like what your thick skull is made from.
How about I take a plasma torch and go Jason on your car, then melt the remaining scrap into a Vespa? By your logic, it's still your car."
Noname Given said:
Forbin said:
Well, luckily, they never ran into a colony founded by Terran Frenchmen.
Ironically, French forces helped the Americans win the battle of Yorktown.
Robert
Actually, it's quite reasonable to come up with thirteen by interpreting this line as excluding Enterprise. "Twelve like her" is by no means necessarily inclusive.
I bet they probably meant twelve (especially since human superstitions about thirteen would probably pervade Starfleet), but it's certainly not as cut-and-dried as you guys'd like it to be.
Doesn't Intrepid appear onscreen in the remastered show (complete with 1831 registry and Constitution class)?
In any case, ship number doesn't have to have anything to do with class anyway. Look at the wide variations in the numbers of, say, Excelsior-class ships.
In any case, ship number doesn't have to have anything to do with class anyway. Look at the wide variations in the numbers of, say, Excelsior-class ships.
That's actually a long standing beef. There originally WAS supposed to be a registry scheme.. and it was ditched. The 1600's were an older starship class. The 1800's was a newer one. (Remember, the Enterprise herself is at least 14 years old by the time of 'Court Martial').
Okuda just really seems to hate the concept of having registry numbers make any sort of sense, and is hell-bent on making sure that they don't. (As well as hell-bent to make sure any ones he picks for TOS now conflicts with the Technical Manual as much as possible, because FJ kicked his dog when he was little, with prejudice.)
Okuda just really seems to hate the concept of having registry numbers make any sort of sense, and is hell-bent on making sure that they don't. (As well as hell-bent to make sure any ones he picks for TOS now conflicts with the Technical Manual as much as possible, because FJ kicked his dog when he was little, with prejudice.)
It's not because Okuda, et. al. have a prejudice against FJ, it's that CBSMount can't use his stuff without paying for it. They don't want to pass out any more slices of the profit pie than they have too.
As I understand it, FJ's contract at the time gave him the copyrights on his designs. He and his estate licensed them for Star Fleet Battles, but never for the shows. They weren't ported over to Interplay's Starfleet Command games for that reason despite their being based on SFB. Sure his work popped up in TMP, TWoK, and TSfS on viewscreens, background dialog, and in the travel pod, none of it was compensated, to the best of my knowledge. In fact, I think the estate protested after TSfS, hence why none of his works have appeared in later shows. Fal Tor Pan's site may have the info on that.
In any case, FJ's contract and the fact GR didn't get the credit or cash he felt he deserved were possibly a big motivator behind his TNG-era rules of starship design which excluded all of FJ's ships. Not that I can imagine it'd cost them that much for the rights to use the designs. The TM and Constitution BPs are out-of-print at the moment and generating no revenue. One would think the estate would rather seen some revenue coming in off the works than none. Such a move would likely spur demand for a new printing and hence more $$$.
Using Greg Jein's "scheme" from a defunct fanzine as Okuda and TPTB have done let them use another set of numbers some (maybe) fans were familiar with without having to write any extra checks. It didn't hurt that Jein worked from time to time on the show and provided models for the Encyclopedia and Chronology as well. Of course, nothing stopped them from using MJ's proposed system and scrambling the numbers so none matched FJ's save those few established on the show. I would have preferred that to the nonsensical 16xx's showing up for ships newer than the class vessel's 1700.
All this would be simpler had Constellation had a 17xx number, 1711, 1710 or whatever the decals of the 1967 version of the AMT kit allowed while being distinct from 1701 on a B&W TV. Without that and with Republic purportedly a Constitution per the TMoST memos despite the 1371 registry, the argument for the infinitely preferable MJ/FJ batch concept is undercut and the alloted-as-constructed scheme which seems to be the basis for Okuda's approach is reinforced.
Money, not malice, is the motivator.
As I understand it, FJ's contract at the time gave him the copyrights on his designs. He and his estate licensed them for Star Fleet Battles, but never for the shows. They weren't ported over to Interplay's Starfleet Command games for that reason despite their being based on SFB. Sure his work popped up in TMP, TWoK, and TSfS on viewscreens, background dialog, and in the travel pod, none of it was compensated, to the best of my knowledge. In fact, I think the estate protested after TSfS, hence why none of his works have appeared in later shows. Fal Tor Pan's site may have the info on that.
In any case, FJ's contract and the fact GR didn't get the credit or cash he felt he deserved were possibly a big motivator behind his TNG-era rules of starship design which excluded all of FJ's ships. Not that I can imagine it'd cost them that much for the rights to use the designs. The TM and Constitution BPs are out-of-print at the moment and generating no revenue. One would think the estate would rather seen some revenue coming in off the works than none. Such a move would likely spur demand for a new printing and hence more $$$.
Using Greg Jein's "scheme" from a defunct fanzine as Okuda and TPTB have done let them use another set of numbers some (maybe) fans were familiar with without having to write any extra checks. It didn't hurt that Jein worked from time to time on the show and provided models for the Encyclopedia and Chronology as well. Of course, nothing stopped them from using MJ's proposed system and scrambling the numbers so none matched FJ's save those few established on the show. I would have preferred that to the nonsensical 16xx's showing up for ships newer than the class vessel's 1700.
All this would be simpler had Constellation had a 17xx number, 1711, 1710 or whatever the decals of the 1967 version of the AMT kit allowed while being distinct from 1701 on a B&W TV. Without that and with Republic purportedly a Constitution per the TMoST memos despite the 1371 registry, the argument for the infinitely preferable MJ/FJ batch concept is undercut and the alloted-as-constructed scheme which seems to be the basis for Okuda's approach is reinforced.
Money, not malice, is the motivator.
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That would imply that the Constellation has a registry number lower than 1017 then?
The canonical numbers that I know of would indicate the ships were constructed in the order:
NCC 1017 Constellation
NCC 1371 Republic
NCC 1631 Intrepid - IIRC the shot in Court Martial RM contradicts the chart
NCC 1672 Exeter
NCC 1701 Enterprise
NCC 1764 Defiant
I haven't seen THe Ultimate Computer RM, so I don't know the numbers for Hood, Petempkin, Lexington and Excalibur.
That would suggest that in the early days, Constitution class construction was infrequent, but increased as tme went by - which seems likely to me.
The canonical numbers that I know of would indicate the ships were constructed in the order:
NCC 1017 Constellation
NCC 1371 Republic
NCC 1631 Intrepid - IIRC the shot in Court Martial RM contradicts the chart
NCC 1672 Exeter
NCC 1701 Enterprise
NCC 1764 Defiant
I haven't seen THe Ultimate Computer RM, so I don't know the numbers for Hood, Petempkin, Lexington and Excalibur.
That would suggest that in the early days, Constitution class construction was infrequent, but increased as tme went by - which seems likely to me.
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