MyrU: Shattered Light Review Thread (Spoilers!)

[Sci]

Re: MyrU: Shattered Light Review Thread

I really don't like that idea. The heart and soul of that novel is from the duality of McCoy's two existences and how they comment on one-another.

Yes, ultimately you're right in how the two halves come together at the end. But in retrospect I by far prefered the part in the past for its emotional depth and novelty whereas especially the parts recounting the various TOS-episodes were sometimes a bit hard to get through.

Fair enough -- and this is a completely subjective thing, but one of the things I liked about the TOS sections of Provenance of Shadows was that DRGIII presented those episodes in a new light. It had never occurred to me before, but DRGIII presents a very strong argument in PoS that both Kirk and McCoy were struggling with profound chronic depression throughout the remainder of TOS after the events of "The City on the Edge of Forever." It added a new emotional depth to those stories for me.

 

[David R. George III]

Re: MyrU: Shattered Light Review Thread

...by agreeing to Starfleet's proposal he didn't solve Lal's legal situation, he condemned her to continue her imprisoned existance just for his need of seeing her again.

My view is that Data did not simply fulfill his need to see Lal, but Lal's need to see him. This may be a subtle distinction, but I think it is an important one.

A few questions/nitpicks that came to me while reading:

* Where's Lore? Why didn't he respond to Soong's homing signal like he did in the series? As he wasn't mentioned at all, did Soong perhaps not build him in this universe (resulting in another change from ours apart from Data's attending the cybernetics-conference later, after "The most toys", which proved to be the focal point)?

The point of departure here is the extreme weather that delays the cybernetics conference, which in turn results in Data creating Lal several months later than he originally had. That impacts the events of "The Best of Both Worlds," but it also leaves Enterprise closer to Soong's world when he activates his homing beacon. By the time Data arrives there and then leaves with Soong, Lore simply hasn't made it there yet.

* the use of contractions - After the installation of the emotion chip Data once uses a contraction ("I'm sorry", p 63), later on he doesn't and is still surprised at Lal's ability to use them. I guess that wasn't planned?

I guess that should be the use of "contraction," singular. Just a flat-out mistake on my part.

* Soong's demise - again something that felt a bit underdeveloped/rushed. He's just a plot device to give Data his emotion chip and fix Lal's cascadic failure. But why did he accompany Lal to Galor IV (or rather, why did Starfleet agree to his presence there and drop all charges?), what was his contribution to the mass construction of androids?

Well, we knew that in the original timeline, nobody else could reproduce Soong-type androids, so presumably his presence was needed on Galor IV to assist in that process.

A thing that just occurred to me - was it ever considered to publish just the part of "Provenance of Shadows" dealing with McCoy's being marooned in the past under the title of Myriad Universes? (sort of doing something similar to David Mack's Mirror Spock story that got its own book) Honestly, if that were to be reworked into a novel, without the surrounding plot aboard Enterprise, and perhaps expanded on, I'd buy it in a second...

I've certainly not heard of any such consideration, nor would I be in favor of it. While I really enjoyed crafting the story of McCoy's time on Earth in the alternate timeline from "The City on the Edge of Forever," the tale I told really requires the juxtaposition with McCoy's original timeline to bolster whatever emotional power it has.

There had been plans for a long time to collect the three Crucible novels into a single hardcover volume, complete with a new forward, a new afterword, and five new short stories. One of those stories, "The Delicate Currents of the Past," would have involved Dr. McCoy and his alternate life.

...can you blame me for wanting more of my absolutely favourite Trek-novel...?

Many thanks for this, and for all of your comments.

Fair enough -- and this is a completely subjective thing, but one of the things I liked about the TOS sections of Provenance of Shadows was that DRGIII presented those episodes in a new light. It had never occurred to me before, but DRGIII presents a very strong argument in PoS that both Kirk and McCoy were struggling with profound chronic depression throughout the remainder of TOS after the events of "The City on the Edge of Forever." It added a new emotional depth to those stories for me.

Yes, yes, a thousand times, yes!

You know, as a writer, and notwithstanding the power of the Internet, it is often difficult to know if I've succeeded in penning exactly what I wished to, and if what I've written has impacted any readers in the ways I intended. One of my goals in crafting Provenance of Shadows was to do precisely what you have described here, to put new spins on Star Trek episodes that had first aired decades earlier, to broaden their scope and give them and the characters new layers. To hear, even several years after the novel's first publication, that I succeeded in doing that for at least one reader is exceedingly gratifying, so thank you.

 

[Claudia]

Re: MyrU: Shattered Light Review Thread

and this is a completely subjective thing, but one of the things I liked about the TOS sections of Provenance of Shadows was that DRGIII presented those episodes in a new light. It had never occurred to me before, but DRGIII presents a very strong argument in PoS that both Kirk and McCoy were struggling with profound chronic depression throughout the remainder of TOS after the events of "The City on the Edge of Forever." It added a new emotional depth to those stories for me.

You know it's kind of funny - I've only read PoS once so far, and that was when it first was released, so it's been quite a while since then.

I remember back when I read it I was looking forward most to the scenes on the Enterprise, it was, as you said, a look at TOS from a fresh perspective, and the novel came at a time when I sort of returned to Trek after being disillusioned by the turn it had taken - so being reminded of episodes I loved dearly, was very precious at the time, including the new spin and the new interpretation of esp McCoy and Kirk (but also Spock in "his" book). But since then I drifted away from Trek again, and in a sense from SF entirely, and during that process my focus regarding PoS shifted as well, now leaning towards the McCoy-parts.

My view is that Data did not simply fulfill his need to see Lal, but Lal's need to see him. This may be a subtle distinction, but I think it is an important one.

Interesting - yes, that would put another spin on Data's decision, of course.

I guess that should be the use of "contraction," singular. Just a flat-out mistake on my part.

I didn't want to imply anything with my question here - I thought maybe it was a sign of Data's imminent breakdown and simply vanished with the reboot. So I asked to get that theory confirmed. *lol

 

[Christopher]

Re: MyrU: Shattered Light Review Thread

The real mistake was on the part of the writers of "The Offspring" and other later episodes in assuming that Data was incapable of using contractions at all. All that "Datalore" actually established was that he tended to speak formally and without contractions. He routinely used contractions in the first season, including twice in "Datalore" itself. (So I guess the real mistake was in "Datalore" retroactively giving Data a character quirk he hadn't had before.) And he did use contractions a number of times afterward, such as in "We'll Always Have Paris" ("It's me!"). Not to mention that he was often able to use them when quoting pre-existing dialogue. So it just makes no sense to suggest that he was literally incapable of using contractions.

The way I like to interpret it is that he tends toward formal speech by default, and that when he does speak informally, by using contractions, slang, or whatever, it's a conscious affectation. What was different about Lal's use of contractions wasn't that she was capable of it, but that she did it unconsciously, without planning it as Data would. She internalized a social convention that Data could only mimic.

 

[Sci]

Re: MyrU: Shattered Light Review Thread

Fair enough -- and this is a completely subjective thing, but one of the things I liked about the TOS sections of Provenance of Shadows was that DRGIII presented those episodes in a new light. It had never occurred to me before, but DRGIII presents a very strong argument in PoS that both Kirk and McCoy were struggling with profound chronic depression throughout the remainder of TOS after the events of "The City on the Edge of Forever." It added a new emotional depth to those stories for me.

Yes, yes, a thousand times, yes!

You know, as a writer, and notwithstanding the power of the Internet, it is often difficult to know if I've succeeded in penning exactly what I wished to, and if what I've written has impacted any readers in the ways I intended. One of my goals in crafting Provenance of Shadows was to do precisely what you have described here, to put new spins on Star Trek episodes that had first aired decades earlier, to broaden their scope and give them and the characters new layers. To hear, even several years after the novel's first publication, that I succeeded in doing that for at least one reader is exceedingly gratifying, so thank you.

You are quite welcome, and thank you for a wonderful read.

The real mistake was on the part of the writers of "The Offspring" and other later episodes in assuming that Data was incapable of using contractions at all. All that "Datalore" actually established was that he tended to speak formally and without contractions. He routinely used contractions in the first season, including twice in "Datalore" itself. (So I guess the real mistake was in "Datalore" retroactively giving Data a character quirk he hadn't had before.) And he did use contractions a number of times afterward, such as in "We'll Always Have Paris" ("It's me!"). Not to mention that he was often able to use them when quoting pre-existing dialogue. So it just makes no sense to suggest that he was literally incapable of using contractions.

The way I like to interpret it is that he tends toward formal speech by default, and that when he does speak informally, by using contractions, slang, or whatever, it's a conscious affectation. What was different about Lal's use of contractions wasn't that she was capable of it, but that she did it unconsciously, without planning it as Data would. She internalized a social convention that Data could only mimic.

I like that idea. I can relate to it, frankly -- when I was studying Spanish in college, I had a lot of trouble remembering to use "del," the contraction of "de el." It makes a certain amount of sense for someone to default to completely formal language, especially if a given language is foreign to them. (I wonder -- does Data think in language the way a human mind might, or does his mind translate concepts into language after they've been formulated?)

 

[captcalhoun]

Re: MyrU: Shattered Light Review Thread

finished this this morning.

overall, i enjoyed it. I have to agree with previous comments, the ending of Embrace was rather abrupt and sudden. I did enjoy it though.

Tears was brilliant. I was wrong-footed into thinking the Excelsior class looked like it normally did and then when wings were mentioned i mentally subbed in a bigger Andorian warship from ENT. i also admit to being a bit bone-headed when the size of the Klingon Empire was mentioned, thinking, 'WTF? Where's the Romulan Empire?' before going 'Duh, doesn't exist!'

What happened to the Tholians? The Empire's neighbours don't include them...

Honor was good. I've not read a SP story before, but i enjoyed this one and hope he gets to do a 'proper' novel some time.

 

[Stevil2001]

Re: MyrU: Shattered Light Review Thread

Tears was brilliant. I was wrong-footed into thinking the Excelsior class looked like it normally did and then when wings were mentioned i mentally subbed in a bigger Andorian warship from ENT. i also admit to being a bit bone-headed when the size of the Klingon Empire was mentioned, thinking, 'WTF? Where's the Romulan Empire?' before going 'Duh, doesn't exist!'

Thank you much. I wanted to do a fakeout where the class was mentioned long before the name, to give even more of a false impression, but it proved too awkward to pull off.

I'd imagine the Tholian Assembly is doing just fine; their space doesn't adjoin that of the Klingon Empire. They're on the other side of the Interstellar Union going by Star Charts.

 

[captcalhoun]

Re: MyrU: Shattered Light Review Thread

ah, okay. i was going on the neighbouring of the Taurus Reach in VAN and figured that if the IU was smaller and never made it there, the Empire and the Assembly would've run up against each other.

 

[Stevil2001]

Re: MyrU: Shattered Light Review Thread

The IU is probably about the same size as the Federation, just differently shaped-- Hikaru mentions a hundred worlds at one point, whereas as the Federation has 150 in the tNG era a century later.

 

[Ronald Held]

Re: MyrU: Shattered Light Review Thread

Steve, your notes on the history of the IU got me thinking of another story to be written. The Hur'Q, instead of "giving" the Klingons FTL technology, instead fought against the Romulans. With no Klingon and Romulan Empires, I presume that Federation and Starfleet history would be almost the same until maybe mid 22d century. I wonder who would fill in the power vacuum, if any other race?

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Re: MyrU: Shattered Light Review Thread

...I also admit to being a bit bone-headed when the size of the Klingon Empire was mentioned, thinking, 'WTF? Where's the Romulan Empire?' before going 'Duh, doesn't exist!'

Yes, I did the exact same thing. Bit of a "d'oh" moment...

 

[DarthPipes]

Re: MyrU: Shattered Light Review Thread

I finally got around to reading Shattered Light today and I loved it. Each story was better than the last one and I thought it was the best of the Myriad Universes books to date. They also made great use out of the established continuity for all five shows.

-The Embrace of Cold Architects

This was the one I was looking forward to the most and I enjoyed it. Some parts in particular were outstanding, namely Picard's POV of his assimilation. The POVs of Data and Lal were also very well-done. One thing in this series is that is shows you things you wish they could have done on the series. In the first MyrU book, Place of Exhile presents up with a far more compelling storyline for Voyager than it ever had on the TV show. In Architcts, we see how interesting a longer-running storyline with Lal would have been. It's a shame that she was dead within the space of an episode. I think nowadays on TV her character would have been around a lot longer. Also, as someone who liked The Outrageous Okona episode, I liked the idea of him becming the new head of Ten-Forward.

Like others, I thought the story resolved itself far too quickly. I was also disappointed with the lack of resolution to Riker's storyline. I was interested in seeing the command of Captain Riker but I ultimately ended up wondering what was the point of it. What was there was good but it just didn't go anywhere. Was it some kind of statement on how militant the Federation was getting?

-The Tears of Eridanus

I wasn't sure what to expect as this story was the biggest depature from the regular Trek universe. But I have to say I loved it, as I found the Andorian-led "Federation" to be fascinating. Definitely wouldn't mind seeing more stories from that universe. A savage Vulcan was equally intriguing, especially considering the Romulans never would have left. I enjoyed Demora's characterization a great deal, which I found to be funny and her conversations with S'task and S'oval were a highlight. T'Pau is also one Vulcan you do NOT want to mess with.

-Honor in the Night

Another incredibly fun and well-written story. I thought the flashback structure worked great and held the story together effectively. Credit to Scott Person for doing such a wonderful job with the characterization to so many memorable one-shot (not counting Kor, Koloth, and Kang's later appearances on DS9 and Voyager) characters from TOS. There's only so much to go on but it still feels like the characters from the original show. Koloth in particular was a blast. Baris in an aggrivating, hot-tempered bueraucrat but this story makes him one you can relate to and root for. It also brings up a good point...while I can understand why Kirk was so annoyed at Baris in Tribbles, Kirk was an unprofessional jackass during that episode and didn't take the mission seriously until he was ordered to do so.

I certainly hope this won't be the last of this series, as it continues to be more imaginative and well-written with each series. One thing I've noticed though is the lack of Spock. In two of the 9 stories (over the three books), he has never been born and in another he died as a child. Is there some kind of editorial rule against his use in this series? I think the series has been great without him but I also know Spock could be the subject of some greate Myriad Universe tales.

 

[Christopher]

Re: MyrU: Shattered Light Review Thread

Well, Spock's a tricky character to deal with in MyrU, because if you alter the history of human-Vulcan relations, you may well create a situation where Sarek and Amanda never met. (By the same token, my Mirror Universe story "Empathy" was originally going to be written on the assumption that Deanna Troi had never existed due to the extermination of the Betazoids, though I had to amend it when I learned another author was doing a Troi-centric story in the anthology.) And the "Spock died in childhood" timeline was established in TAS: "Yesteryear," and it was a natural alternate to be curious about.

 

[Stevil2001]

Re: MyrU: Shattered Light Review Thread

Thanks for the kind comments on The Tears of Eridanus, Darth! Glad you enjoyed our alternate Federation and Vulcan-- they were both fun to come up with.

In an earlier version of the outline, Spock was actually a character. Sarek was an astronaut who was rescued by a passing starship when his ship malfunctioned, and fell in love with and married Amanda Grayson, a passenger (or crewmember, I forget) on that ship. They had a child-- Spock. The story was actually about Sarek wanting to return home after thirty years and bringing his son with him, but Marco pointed out that 1) it was a bit too much like A Less Perfect Union and 2) we weren't taking full advantage of the premise, as too many things were the same in our alternate universe. So we went back to the drawing board-- and no Spock.

 

[DarthPipes]

Re: MyrU: Shattered Light Review Thread

That does sound pretty interesting, Steve, although I do think too that you made the right decision. You did make good use of Sybok in the story as well.

 

[Atticus]

Re: MyrU: Shattered Light Review Thread

Just got hold of this over the weekend, only read tEoCA so far. My first thought on clicking on this thread was to comment about the abrupt ending but I see others have already beaten me to it.

There was a lot to like about it but I do agree with others that it suffered horribly from being a novella. There was much that could have done with expansion - the paralleling of Riker and Data's loss was very interesting, although I'm not sure the contrast between how the two dealt with it - Data set about fixing things in a very determined, single-minded fashion while Riker, for wont of a better word, dithered over confronting his issues - entirely rang true. Had there been more space to examine how Riker's problems, and especially if he'd had more of a resolution to them, there would have been less complaints about him being a bit of a sorry sack. Equally, the revelations in Data's story really needed much more exploration.

Spoiler: End of The Embrace of Cold Architects

The whole issue of Starfleet doing something as heinous as what's been going on at Galor IV needs a greater resolution than "it was leaked." Both for Lal and Data's personal story and, given that the differences between this universe and the canon Trek one weren't great,the idea that something this horrible could happen, needed some kind of catharsis - it's because we don't get that, and are left hanging, literally, with Riker, that I think many people are feeling a little deflated by the end.

The story is good, it just needed more. Loved the cameo by the new bartender of Ten Forward, though, he worked far better in this than on the actual show.

 

[Scott Pearson]

Re: MyrU: Shattered Light Review Thread

-Honor in the Night

Another incredibly fun and well-written story. I thought the flashback structure worked great and held the story together effectively. Credit to Scott Person for doing such a wonderful job with the characterization to so many memorable one-shot (not counting Kor, Koloth, and Kang's later appearances on DS9 and Voyager) characters from TOS. There's only so much to go on but it still feels like the characters from the original show. Koloth in particular was a blast. Baris in an aggrivating, hot-tempered bueraucrat but this story makes him one you can relate to and root for. It also brings up a good point...while I can understand why Kirk was so annoyed at Baris in Tribbles, Kirk was an unprofessional jackass during that episode and didn't take the mission seriously until he was ordered to do so.

Thanks! It really hit me while writing this how distinct Kor, Koloth, and Kang are, and what great life all the actors injected into these roles with a minimum of screen time.

 

[Turbo]

Re: MyrU: Shattered Light Review Thread

Picked up and read this anthology just last week! (Apologies in advance for performing a bit of necromancy on this thread.)

Like a lot of other posters, I was looking forward to The Embrace of Cold Architects the most; Picard dying during BoBW is a great place to start an alternate universe story. Unfortunately, the story was not at all what I was expecting. The Data/Lal storyline was superbly written, and entirely believable for Data. However, while the Riker storyline was believable in its depiction of depression, it just didn't go anywhere. It didn't really fit the book at all, and I honestly would have been happy to see most of that storyline go in favor of seeing more of the android rights plotline. At the very least, it would have been nice to get a resolution to Riker's story; perhaps he finally breaks down to Deanna during the new war with Cardassia and she starts to help him out of his depression. But as it is, the lack of resolution was just jarring.

The Tears of Eridanus was probably my favorite story in the collection, as it was quite fun. The concept of an Androiocentric Federation (er, Interstellar Union) was great, and makes perfect sense without the existence of the "normal" Vulcan. Sulu is a good character to read about, and Demora meeting Soval was a nice touch. It was also fun to picture the Celia Lovsky version of T'Pau as a violent matriarch. It would be interesting to revisit this timeline and find out if the Vulcans have moved towards a philosophy of peace or if, as one poster put it upthread, they've essentially become Psi-Romulans.

Honor in the Night was probably the most interesting concept. The devastation on Sherman's Planet was a good dichotomy with the peace that Nilz Baris helped to bring about with the Klingons. The story almost plays like an exercise in "the more things change, the more they stay the same" which was a nice feature for a Myriad Universes story; things may even be better for Bajor under Klingon rule, as the governor truly seems to be trying to stabilize them before granting independence, ensuring that they won't be dependent on either the Empire or the Federation. (At least that's the way I read it.) (I also can't believe it took me so long to figure out the twist about the governor, but it was quite well done.)

All in all, I hope we see a fourth Myriad Universes book; the first three have been generally excellent.

 

[JD]

Re: MyrU: Shattered Light Review Thread

I certainly interpreted the end of ToE as the Minsharans becoming, as you put it, psi-Romulans. Given S'Task's role in the Prime timeline it seems like the most likely outcome to me. That brings up my biggest complaint with the MyrU so far, most of the stories have set up some really interesting alternate universes and then left off at a major moment in it's history that will probably never be followed up on.

 

[Turbo]

Re: MyrU: Shattered Light Review Thread

I agree with you for the most part. Brave New World and Places of Exile are the only two stories which really had an "ending". An epilogue would have been great for Tears of Eridanus and A Gutted World. On the other hand, an epilogue would have gutted the ending of Honor in the Night.