My TOS Shuttlecraft...
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
At some point after I've finalized my version of the TOS shuttlecraft I will undertake to depict the Galileo in a manner more in line with what MJ seems to have initially intended. That ship will be between 24 and 26 feet in length. But this will be mostly an exercise in curiosity because MJ's initial intent largely didn't make it to screen. His shuttlecraft seemed to be more akin to a space going Cessna or naval auxiliary launch designed almost strictly for ship-to-shore service rather than a vehicle meant to operate independently of the parent ship for some extended duration. The writers of the day seemed to have had more of a hand in determining the nature of the TOS shuttlecraft than MJ did. Yet in all fairness I cannot say they were wholly wrong either because (at least from my perspective) the ship the writers gave us seems to make more operational and functional sense than MJ's initial concept...imo.
But on topic with this ship it's a constant balancing act to reconcile the fullsize exterior mock-up and the standing interior set. The result will be an integrated whole that in some respect or other will be inconsistent with what was seen onscreen, and more contradictory with the fullsize exterior mock-up in terms of scale. The interior discrepency will be more subtle and mostly in terms of ceiling height. For all I know the interior set could have been as high as 7ft. or as low as 6ft. BTW does anyone know how tall Leonard Nimoy is because his head had few inches to spare to clear the overhead lighting panel?
But on topic with this ship it's a constant balancing act to reconcile the fullsize exterior mock-up and the standing interior set. The result will be an integrated whole that in some respect or other will be inconsistent with what was seen onscreen, and more contradictory with the fullsize exterior mock-up in terms of scale. The interior discrepency will be more subtle and mostly in terms of ceiling height. For all I know the interior set could have been as high as 7ft. or as low as 6ft. BTW does anyone know how tall Leonard Nimoy is because his head had few inches to spare to clear the overhead lighting panel?
According to IMDB.com, Leonard Nimoy is 6'1". :thumbsup:
Ooooooooh, let's not open up the 947-foot vs. 1080-foot Enterprise debate again... pleeeeeasee no!! 
The decks for the 1701, as planned, are 10 feet tall. I've seen set blueprints that specifically confirm this.
Only the ones built -- a curved and straight corridor. MJ's own cross section shows us he had deck heights ranging from a few feet to 16 or more, and in that area TallGuy shows, the decks are pretty low to accomodate where they are in that saucer.
In other words, how high the ceilings are depend on which part of the ship you're in.
Great job, as always. I know you need another opinion like a hole in the head, but here's mine anyway...
"Making of..." Art
My opinion is this is how the shutlecraft was meant to be perceived. I'm referring specifically to nose orientation, not size. I realize that she was shown with her nose down on the show, but to me, that seems to undermine her simple grace.
With her nose up, she seems much more proud & majestic -- and, perhaps, easier to land!
"Making of..." Art
My opinion is this is how the shutlecraft was meant to be perceived. I'm referring specifically to nose orientation, not size. I realize that she was shown with her nose down on the show, but to me, that seems to undermine her simple grace.
With her nose up, she seems much more proud & majestic -- and, perhaps, easier to land!
Later today I'll post a couple of new images offering two different perspectives I worked out over the weekend. One is my final scale with a shuttlecraft of 28.725' length overall. The other is a scale more in line with what MJ may have originally intended that has most of the elements of the fullsize interior set yet with a more cramped ceiling height. And--get this--by total chance I may have stumbled onto that mystical 24' measurement in regards to the exterior.
Stay tuned.
Stay tuned.
This might be a little late in the game, but that 24' figure was probably in the script a good ways before the thing was even designed (television being what it is, it's doubtful a lot of design work was done on the shuttlecraft until there was actually a script calling for it....y'know, the design process of the shuttle could be fodder for a lively discussion all on its own... 
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I answered this over on Hobbytalk, but I'll repeat my answer here.
My "smaller" version of the ship comes out to 26.427 ft. with a 5.75 ft. ceiling. My first attempt at this started out at near exactly 26 ft. from nose to trailing edge of the aft landing pad. It was at this point that I accidently realized that at that size the length of the main hull from nose to end (and excluding the nacelles) came out to 24.088968 ft. However at the scale the ceiling height was a very tight 5.644 ft. and that's excluding the overhead lighting panel. I subsequently tinkered to arrive at a 26.427 ft. ship with the main hull then being 24.485 ft.--still close enough for Kirk to round off and say "A twenty-four foot shuttlecraft." The reference could conceiveably mean that the length of a ship's mail hull excluding "add ons" like engines and landing gear and whatever. Yes, it's a rationalization, but it isn't an unreasonable one. And I must say that the ship looks right at this scale even though the interior is certainly tighter than what we saw onscreen. It's on this basis, though, that I think MJ certainly understood that the full-size mock-up was undersized as built and an actual size reference was put into the script while the reference itself was not specific.
My "smaller" version of the ship comes out to 26.427 ft. with a 5.75 ft. ceiling. My first attempt at this started out at near exactly 26 ft. from nose to trailing edge of the aft landing pad. It was at this point that I accidently realized that at that size the length of the main hull from nose to end (and excluding the nacelles) came out to 24.088968 ft. However at the scale the ceiling height was a very tight 5.644 ft. and that's excluding the overhead lighting panel. I subsequently tinkered to arrive at a 26.427 ft. ship with the main hull then being 24.485 ft.--still close enough for Kirk to round off and say "A twenty-four foot shuttlecraft." The reference could conceiveably mean that the length of a ship's mail hull excluding "add ons" like engines and landing gear and whatever. Yes, it's a rationalization, but it isn't an unreasonable one. And I must say that the ship looks right at this scale even though the interior is certainly tighter than what we saw onscreen. It's on this basis, though, that I think MJ certainly understood that the full-size mock-up was undersized as built and an actual size reference was put into the script while the reference itself was not specific.
Wow. Warped9 , I think these are wonderful. I just can’t wait to see what you do with all of this. I will be sitting here with anticipation…
Really nice! :thumbsup:
Really nice! :thumbsup:
The exterior is relatively easy because I'm committed to keeping the exterior as is without alterations. It's really a matter of scale to accomodate whichever interior I settle on.
Candidly I have likes and problems with both versions. *Sigh*
The 28 footer makes more sense conceptually in how the ship was used and is genuinely more consistent with the interior we saw onscreen. Mind you I still adapted my version of a fullsize interior to fit it within the design of the shuttlecraft without exterior alterations and scheming to keep the ship's overall size down as much as possible. The onscreen interior set looks to have a ceiling in the range of 7' and that would have given me a ship of about 33'--that's simply too big to be practical within the Enterprise's hangar deck. However, that full size interior is odd because in other respects they scaled some things to suggest they were in a more confined space. For example the chairs are lower than could be reasonably expected in a fullsize craft and personnel still have to duck their heads to access the rear compartment as well as enter/exit the vehicle. But my major beef with the 28 ft. version is that it looks too big for its design. Of course part of it may simply be that we're not accustomed to seeing the TOS shuttlecraft that size. That said the 28 footer is the ship I initially set out to fashion and so I'm inclined to favour it over the smaller ship.
The smaller 26 footer looks more like the fullsize exterior mock-up. And it certainly wouldn't be a problem to fit in the existing hangar deck. Yet I can't ignore the fact that its interior is drastically smaller than what we saw onscreen particularly in terms of ceiling height. The main compartment is slightly shorter and the aft compartment is smaller as well.
I guess I might need some serious persuasion to sway me in favour of the smaller ship. All input is welcome.
I'm not yet finished with this ship--although I can see the light at the end--yet I'm already contemplating my next project.
Anyone intrigued by a thread called "My TAS shuttlecraft?"
Candidly I have likes and problems with both versions. *Sigh*
The 28 footer makes more sense conceptually in how the ship was used and is genuinely more consistent with the interior we saw onscreen. Mind you I still adapted my version of a fullsize interior to fit it within the design of the shuttlecraft without exterior alterations and scheming to keep the ship's overall size down as much as possible. The onscreen interior set looks to have a ceiling in the range of 7' and that would have given me a ship of about 33'--that's simply too big to be practical within the Enterprise's hangar deck. However, that full size interior is odd because in other respects they scaled some things to suggest they were in a more confined space. For example the chairs are lower than could be reasonably expected in a fullsize craft and personnel still have to duck their heads to access the rear compartment as well as enter/exit the vehicle. But my major beef with the 28 ft. version is that it looks too big for its design. Of course part of it may simply be that we're not accustomed to seeing the TOS shuttlecraft that size. That said the 28 footer is the ship I initially set out to fashion and so I'm inclined to favour it over the smaller ship.
The smaller 26 footer looks more like the fullsize exterior mock-up. And it certainly wouldn't be a problem to fit in the existing hangar deck. Yet I can't ignore the fact that its interior is drastically smaller than what we saw onscreen particularly in terms of ceiling height. The main compartment is slightly shorter and the aft compartment is smaller as well.
I guess I might need some serious persuasion to sway me in favour of the smaller ship. All input is welcome.
I'm not yet finished with this ship--although I can see the light at the end--yet I'm already contemplating my next project.
Anyone intrigued by a thread called "My TAS shuttlecraft?"
It always amuses me to find out that even the stuff we thought was relatively "real" and solid, isn't.
You insight as to door and chair heights might free you up a bit for the 26 footer. You can cram the seating in a bit tighter and still keep an aft compartment.
I wouldn't (or I should say "I don't") worry about the ceiling height so much. They did everything they could to convince us they were hunched over without having to do so. And anything that brings those windows down to a useable level is good with me.
Nice work as always. Makes a nice break from the other Discussions That Must Not Be Named.
You insight as to door and chair heights might free you up a bit for the 26 footer. You can cram the seating in a bit tighter and still keep an aft compartment.
I wouldn't (or I should say "I don't") worry about the ceiling height so much. They did everything they could to convince us they were hunched over without having to do so. And anything that brings those windows down to a useable level is good with me.
Nice work as always. Makes a nice break from the other Discussions That Must Not Be Named.
^^ 
Strange in that over the past several hours I've found myself thinking much along the same lines and have become to looke evermore favourably upon the 26 footer. I suppose part of it is because it fits better overall with what MJ tried to convey and I respect his perspective and insights--a very clever man.
The spacing and size of the chairs and consoles and all remain the same for both versions although I cut off some unused empty space from the main compartment behind the last pair of seats on the 26 footer. I'll try tweaking some more and see what happens.
One thing that isn't apparent, but will be seen soon will be how the interiors fit in both version as seen in fore/aft cross section as well as deck plan. The 28 ft. exterior is a lot wider in relation to it's interior--you'd have a very spacious double hull almost to the point of accomodation a cramped airlock. I suspected that going in yet it's still rather odd to actually see.
The more I think about it the more I find myself reconsidering and favouring the smaller ship. It just strikes me evermore convincingly that this is more in line with the ship they wanted to depict and be taken as the "real" shuttlecraft even though the realities of '60s tv production forced them to compromise. I think I'll focus on massaging the 26 footer into a workable vehicle with an overall length no more than about 26.5 ft.
If you think this is a headache just wait until I start drawing up my versions of the TAS shuttlecraft. (-:
Strange in that over the past several hours I've found myself thinking much along the same lines and have become to looke evermore favourably upon the 26 footer. I suppose part of it is because it fits better overall with what MJ tried to convey and I respect his perspective and insights--a very clever man.The spacing and size of the chairs and consoles and all remain the same for both versions although I cut off some unused empty space from the main compartment behind the last pair of seats on the 26 footer. I'll try tweaking some more and see what happens.
One thing that isn't apparent, but will be seen soon will be how the interiors fit in both version as seen in fore/aft cross section as well as deck plan. The 28 ft. exterior is a lot wider in relation to it's interior--you'd have a very spacious double hull almost to the point of accomodation a cramped airlock. I suspected that going in yet it's still rather odd to actually see.
The more I think about it the more I find myself reconsidering and favouring the smaller ship. It just strikes me evermore convincingly that this is more in line with the ship they wanted to depict and be taken as the "real" shuttlecraft even though the realities of '60s tv production forced them to compromise. I think I'll focus on massaging the 26 footer into a workable vehicle with an overall length no more than about 26.5 ft.
If you think this is a headache just wait until I start drawing up my versions of the TAS shuttlecraft. (-:
Good Lord... TAS shuttlecraft designs were interesting to look at but I can't imagine HOW they'll be "workable" with the constraints you have to work with. The "fast courier" shuttle might work, though it's too long to go onto the turntable/elevator. The "heavy shuttle" is just too tall to work. The "aquashuttle" is a neat idea, but again, making it work with the size/space constraints and still having room for actual HUMAN BEINGS seems almost impossible.
I'm anxious to see how it works out!
I'm anxious to see how it works out!
It goes pretty much without saying that I will be adapting those designs and working out a backstory to explain them and their use by the Enterprise crew. It also goes without saying that they will have to be rescaled as well as they are indeed too big for practical routine use within the Enterprise small shuttlecraft complement.
