Especially when Jeffries himself was quoted time & time again that the build was in exchange for the license to produce the model kit, so the production dept. didn't have to spend a nickel on it. That always was a thing that seems to be associated w/production back then-they were always looking for a way to save the bucks.
My TOS Shuttlecraft...
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
Especially when Jeffries himself was quoted time & time again that the build was in exchange for the license to produce the model kit, so the production dept. didn't have to spend a nickel on it. That always was a thing that seems to be associated w/production back then-they were always looking for a way to save the bucks.
Captain Robert April said:
Got a response from Bjo that should drive a few more nails in the coffin of the argument of where the shuttlecraft was built...
[SNIP]
Lessee....who was it that put forth the idea that it was built on the studio lot? Oh yeah, that was ME!
I'm not sure why you're placing such weight on Bjo as an authority about this particular subject. As the uber- proto- ur- fan she has few peers. But she didn't work producing the show. She was just a fan. And your guess is just a guess.
"Coffin nails" notwithstanding, more authoritative sources say it was built in Phoenix and trucked to Hollywood.
M.
Here's a silly question... why do we really care enough to argue about it, where the thing was built?
I care a great deal about the shuttlecraft prints... and I'd love to see a "workable" version of the shuttlecraft either as a detailed computer model, a physical model, or even a full-sized mockup. The original stuff is interesting for historical purposes, but I'm more interested in the NEW WORK that this thread is really supposed to be about.
But that's just me...
I care a great deal about the shuttlecraft prints... and I'd love to see a "workable" version of the shuttlecraft either as a detailed computer model, a physical model, or even a full-sized mockup. The original stuff is interesting for historical purposes, but I'm more interested in the NEW WORK that this thread is really supposed to be about.
But that's just me...
Bjo was a frequent visitor to the lot during the production of the show (she was the original head of Lincoln Enterprises, before being shoved aside for Majel), so yes, she knows of what she speaks.
I apologize for not getting more images posted, but we've been hit with a bit of a wave of hot and very humid weather here lately, and I unfortunately don't have air conditioning at home. With this weather the last thing I imagine myself doing is sitting in front of a computer with the sweat rolling off me.
Which only means that she might or might not have heard or seen something definite; not that she was in a position to know exactly what was going on.
Well let's look at what she actually said:
She's assuming it was built on the lot because union rules and bugetary constraints made it impossible to do otherwise. But this is not true. They did occasionally hire ousiders to produce things for the show in their own studios. A case in point: Wah Chang was hired to create the Tricorders and Communicators, as well as update the Phasers, even though it was against the unioin rules.
But we know that was not the case. They didn't hire anyone to build the shuttlecraft. They traded the rights to a model kit for it so they would have zero cash outlay.
She also thinks it was built by Paramount's staff. A point which is directly contradicted by several sources inside the production (including Jefferies himself) who all say it was built by AMT.
I have great respect for Bjo. I've met her. She's a charming woman who has done great things in ST fandom. But she is not in a postion to know the answer to this question -- and she pretty well says as much in her response to you.
It is important when doing research to not only qualify your sources, but also to listen carefully to what they are actually saying.
M.
At least I'm asking around.
I'm still waiting to hear your evidence.
I'm still waiting to hear your evidence.
I'm happy to oblige.
I have now been in touch with Gene Winfield, the famed custom car designer who actually built the full scale Galileo. He confirmed for me in no uncertain terms that the exterior piece was constructed under his supervision at AMT's custom shop in Phoenix Arizona and trucked to Desilu in Hollywood. I trust we can put that issue to rest now.
Some other tidbits he offered:
His original construction deadline was 30 days. He told Jefferies that there was no way he could build the design he was given in anything like that amount of time. He then obtained permission to simplify the design using flat panels with a few curved details added.
The actual construction took more like 3 months.
He also built the interior set at AMT in Phoenix. The wild wall sections were 4 feet wide.
The interior roof level was planned much lower, but the studio instructed him to raise it to allow the actors to stand upright. This came about while the set was still being built. (This last bit is especially gratifying to me since it confirms a theory I put forward long ago to explain the unnaturally low chairs, too blunt front angle and lack of sight lines through the front windows.)
I am still in communication with Mr. Winfield and should have more to share in a few weeks. Specifically, I hope to settle how far along the design was when Jefferies gave it to AMT and what specific refinements are Winfield's contribution. This should authoritatively establish the proper place in the design process of the TMOST drawing...
M.
I have now been in touch with Gene Winfield, the famed custom car designer who actually built the full scale Galileo. He confirmed for me in no uncertain terms that the exterior piece was constructed under his supervision at AMT's custom shop in Phoenix Arizona and trucked to Desilu in Hollywood. I trust we can put that issue to rest now.
Some other tidbits he offered:
His original construction deadline was 30 days. He told Jefferies that there was no way he could build the design he was given in anything like that amount of time. He then obtained permission to simplify the design using flat panels with a few curved details added.
The actual construction took more like 3 months.
He also built the interior set at AMT in Phoenix. The wild wall sections were 4 feet wide.
The interior roof level was planned much lower, but the studio instructed him to raise it to allow the actors to stand upright. This came about while the set was still being built. (This last bit is especially gratifying to me since it confirms a theory I put forward long ago to explain the unnaturally low chairs, too blunt front angle and lack of sight lines through the front windows.)
I am still in communication with Mr. Winfield and should have more to share in a few weeks. Specifically, I hope to settle how far along the design was when Jefferies gave it to AMT and what specific refinements are Winfield's contribution. This should authoritatively establish the proper place in the design process of the TMOST drawing...
M.
^^ Very interesting. And the fact that the ceiling was originally intended to be lower to more properly reflect the "reality" of the concept makes me feel much better about the direction I've taken.
And so the designers are Matt Jefferies and Gene Winfield then? Or should Raymond Loewy's name be added in there?
And so the designers are Matt Jefferies and Gene Winfield then? Or should Raymond Loewy's name be added in there?
Okay, now this is more like it.
So, let's recap.
AMT gets the deal in August, 1966, and construction took three months, which puts the delivery no earlier than sometime in October or November, depending on when the design was finalized. That's about what I'd figured, based upon the airdate of "The Menagerie, pt 1", which was rushed through production to prevent the show from missing it's airdate (some confirmed production dates would be useful...I'm gonna dig through TMoST again in search of some helpful memos).
UPDATE: Production of "The Menagerie" ran from October 11th through the 18th, with final dubbing on November 1st, and part 1 airing on November 17th.
Most likely puts delivery of the shuttlecraft sometime the previous week.
So, let's recap.
AMT gets the deal in August, 1966, and construction took three months, which puts the delivery no earlier than sometime in October or November, depending on when the design was finalized. That's about what I'd figured, based upon the airdate of "The Menagerie, pt 1", which was rushed through production to prevent the show from missing it's airdate (some confirmed production dates would be useful...I'm gonna dig through TMoST again in search of some helpful memos).
UPDATE: Production of "The Menagerie" ran from October 11th through the 18th, with final dubbing on November 1st, and part 1 airing on November 17th.
Most likely puts delivery of the shuttlecraft sometime the previous week.
Indirect reinforcement. I like it.
Meters...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
Doing cross sections are a bitch, er, a lot of work. 
The thing is just when you think you've accomplished something you discover some other overlooked aspect or detail. To some extent it's a lot of trial-and-error work. On top of which I'm certainly no aeronautical or aerospace engineer and so I lack that perspective and knowledge to build on and extrapolate from. Essentially I'm wingin' it here.
The exterior work is comparatively easy.
The thing is just when you think you've accomplished something you discover some other overlooked aspect or detail. To some extent it's a lot of trial-and-error work. On top of which I'm certainly no aeronautical or aerospace engineer and so I lack that perspective and knowledge to build on and extrapolate from. Essentially I'm wingin' it here.The exterior work is comparatively easy.
The trick with doing a good cross-section is, IMHO, to model it in 3D, but not down to the last bolt or nut obviously. Walls should be the right "surface" shapes but you don't need to have the internal structure completed at all.
You actually section the 3D model that way, then export that to a 2D drawing program, and just fill in those "empty" spaces between the wall outer surfaces with hand-drawn details that look like wires, pipes, structural pieces, etc.
As for what those details would look like... that's why I provided (way up above) a link to an aircraft drawing...
You actually section the 3D model that way, then export that to a 2D drawing program, and just fill in those "empty" spaces between the wall outer surfaces with hand-drawn details that look like wires, pipes, structural pieces, etc.
As for what those details would look like... that's why I provided (way up above) a link to an aircraft drawing...
Regrettably I don't have the means to work in 3D. I do have Blender installed, but I've no idea how to begin to use it. Also even though I'm drawing in 2D I'm always thinking in 3D.
And believe or not there's something about clean and crisp line drawings that still hold a powerful appeal for me.
And believe or not there's something about clean and crisp line drawings that still hold a powerful appeal for me.
Agreed. Line drawings have a quality of succint description about them; the high contrast of a descriptive line drawing can be much more informative than a realistic 3D render of the same object.
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