My TOS shuttlecraft (continued)...

[Timo]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

So, the TAS craft is to be relatively compact? And perhaps capable of being carried inside the Enterprise as the result?

I sort of like those aspects of the TAS episode (mainly the interior shots) that indicate a relatively large craft, as this gives more credence to the "detached" mission far away from the mothership. The larger the craft, the greater the crew comfort on long solo missions; the bigger the engines for credible deep space performance; and the greater the amount of comforting bulk (and possible onboard weaponry) against the evils of outer space.

Mark Wilson did a take on this for the USS Aliquippa blueprints. Here's what I doodled for the interiors, and for the funny way the aft end of the craft seems to behave when our heroes step out:



Giving the craft a cabin that has standing height inside will result in something of a mid-23rd century runabout - only with the machinery underfloor rather than above or aft of the cabin. Most of the tacky-looking "window area" could be anti-glare paint instead, with smaller portholes of Class F style sitting in the middle of the painted area.

And by having the aft end be a hinged step/ramp, one excuses the strangely slanted stern and the vertical wall we see in the egress scene, as well as the less than spaceworthy-looking sliding doors that disappear into the side walls. The doors would be but internal collapsible bulkheads, with several more at various points of the cabin length. And the crew and cargo would have a reasonable means of accessing the surface from the high-perched cabin.

Not that I'd have anything against this smaller scoutcraft interpretation or anything. It's just that I'd like to see the larger concept tackled by you, too, since the results usually are so impressive...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Warped9]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

^^ In my conceptual sketch the dotted line gives you an idea of my internal cabin arrangement. The cabin's fore section would be a bit tighter where one would have to stoop a bit to enter and get seated, but the aft section would be standing room height. And the rearmost section could be a small airlock with a gangway with fold out steps that swings down to the ground.

My scoutship would be about twice the length of a Class F. My basic idea is that of a 23rd century runabout that can be taken into a starship's hangar for rendezvous purposes, although the craft would be too large to be part of the standard complement of shuttlecraft--that's what my Class F and H are for. The scoutship is meant for long hauls for four people at the most.

My basic backstory is that as Starfleet's starbases became evermore far flung they needed a means of immediate rapid transport because a starship isn't always immediately available. Before committing to contracting a wholly new design study they elected to shop around first to see if anything was already available that could be adapted to their needs. My scoutship is a Vulcan aerospace designed craft often utilized by various Federation agencies as well as some agencies on various Federation member worlds. Starfleet found it to be suitable and contracted for a variant adapted to their needs. And hence the TAS scoutship.

 

[Timo]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

Ah, I got a wrong impression of the overall size, mistaking the increased height-to-length ratio of the main body for decreased length. So it's going to end up the way I was hoping for after all!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Warped9]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

^^ Well, it will still be shorter than what the TAS depiction appears to suggest because with a standing interior that depiction would be waay too long. And the TAS interior is far too bare bones.

Similarly my heavy lander and aquashuttle interpretations will evoke the TAS versions, but will seek to depict something much more believable in overall shape and functional detail. I'm speculating that the aquashuttle could have the most cramped interior because it's a short range vehicle and you probably needn't have to be up and unseated much during operation. Still, while all three designs could be loners none of them would be small enough to be carried as standard complement aboard a Constitution-class ship.

 

[Timo]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

The long, austere interior of the TAS craft seems logistically advantageous to me. You'd certainly want at least one shuttle type that has a perfectly flat floor and an unobstructed interior terminating in a full-width door, for the carrying of outsize items.

Now, this cargo hauler need not be the same craft one would pick for a long solo mission away from the mothership. But it might just as well be exactly that; many an expedition here on Earth makes use of heavy duty trucks for their range and versatility, even when a smaller cross-country vehicle might be more nimble. Associating heavy lifting with long range isn't such a bad assumption.

Now, clearly Class F, Class H and the Heavy Lander cannot meet the heavy utility needs, due to their awkward doorways. If the stern of the TAS Copernicus were configured right, with a ramp and/or elevator, it would be ideal for the purpose, and apparently the only craft in this category. From ST5 onwards, smaller shuttles would come to feature this configuration, but it clearly requires some miniaturization that apparently wasn't available to the makers of Class F or H.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Warped9]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

^^ Well, there's no reason that there can't be more than one version of the scoutship, just as the interiors of the Class F and H can be reconfigured for different mission profiles.


And here's the most recent ceiling and deck plans I have.

 

[Warped9]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

^^ In those images you can see here I've begun putting in the mechanicals, which I must temporarily suspend until I get the life shell and spaceframe done first.

I've also become aware that the patterned texturing of the overhead light panel is incorrect. While studying screencaps of the Galileo I noticed the distinctive pattern of the plastic panel on the overhead lighting. Although the screencaps show it in perspective I'll try to reproduce it as best I can. I must also reconsider the thickness of the outer access hatch panels as it's quite apparent onscreen that those panels are an appreciable thickness.

I'm also trying to get a sense of where ventilation grates could be. There were no obvious ones to be seen onscreen. One place could be at the top of the angled forward bulkhead right in front of the overhead lighting panel. That spot is never clearly seen onscreen and you could have a duct there and it would be pretty much completely out of sight.

At the scale I'm drawing it won't be possible to illustrate the three layers to the life shell's hull comprised of the inner hull shell itself, thermal insulation and finally a solid/fluid hull sealant in the event of a (manageable) rupture.

Basic emergency lifesuits could be stored either overhead or also behind pull-away panels along the sides running underneath the control panels. I haven't got a firm grasp of that yet.

Another little detail has come to light and I think I can rationalize it, at least within the context of my take on the shuttlecraft. In all exterior shots of the Galileo, both large and small, the windows on the outer access hatch are always dark. Some modelers have elected to show those as lighted from within. However, with the double hull structure that I have you have a tiny (and practically useless) airlock between the outer and inner access hatches. And so unless the inner hatch is open in preparation for exiting the vehicle then no light should be visible from those small windows particularly when the craft is in flight. Why would you light the useless interior space between the outer and inner access hatch unless you were exiting or entering the craft? Or another rationalization is that for whatever purpose the material of those windows allow light in yet not out.

Just a thought.

 

[Timo]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

...How about using life-support belts instead?

Perhaps those are a technology that is in many ways inferior to spacesuits, but suffices for brief/emergency use. The shuttle might have something like two proper suits folded up in the back compartment, and then belts for everybody, possibly incorporated into the seats.

I guess ventilation inflow could easily take place through the ceiling surface that also provides illumination. That would also help in combating dust that enters when personnel do. Outflow should then happen through vents close to the floor, perhaps through very thin slots at the lower corners, and/or through larger vents underneath the control consoles.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Warped9]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

^^ A very good suggestion on both counts. I admit I'm not a fan of the life support belts because they seem just a bit too much like pure fantasy tech (unless someone could prove convincingly otherwise). But they would offer a suitable solution in place of having to find storage for bulky lifesuits no matter how lightweight and compact they can be made to be.

 

[Timo]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

I'd see the belts as an essentially "civilian" technology that barely suffices in keeping air in or moisture out: they'd be popular as umbrellas back on Earth, but Starfleet would just snort derisively in their direction, just like any military regards umbrellas.

Rationalizing why Kirk would suddenly start using these, then, is a task for either Stupendous Man or the undersigned. I could go case by case...

* In "Beyond the Farthest Star", Kirk and pals beamed into an essentially intact starship that might have had a benign even if untrustworthy atmosphere, or then benign vacuum. Such intraship use might have been approved by Starfleet in principle, and starship crews would prefer the nimble fields to the clumsy suits even in situations where Starfleet regulations might call for more effective protection. (Also, in that episode, life support belts were explicitly said to be in emergency use on those Enterprise decks that had been compromised!)

* In "The Ambergris Element", Kirk's crew might not have had a supply of proper diving gear aboard - all might have been lost with the aquashuttle - and this was the best they could come up with on short notice. Although they did whip up those "water helmets" for Kirk and Spock quickly enough... Certainly the known spacesuit types would have been a poor substitute for diving suits; and the skintight fields seemed like a very convenient way to provide a "drysuit" and an air source at the same time!

* "The Slaver Weapon" would be obvious: the ultra-short expedition they were expecting would be best conducted with the easily available emergency gear. Spacesuits would have been overkill. This in interesting contrast with the original Niven short story, where the Puppeteer's spacesuit was supposed to keep him alive and well for years; our Trek heroes could have been in deep, deep trouble in just minutes if their belts really were but emergency gear.

* The titular villains of "The Pirates of Orion" might have told Kirk not to don a full suit for his "hostage exchange", for obvious reasons.

A bit thin, I admit, but perhaps workable with enough handwaving. The latter three cases would be unique to the respective episodes, not contradicted by any of the live-action shows. It's the first appearance of the device that gives the most problems, including the fact that the field can protect Scotty from the crushing weight of a large hatch...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Warped9]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

There may already be a ready made storage place for the lifebelts. On one side of the cabin we have the phaser storage bin, but we've never seen what's in the bin on the other side. It could store hand communicators and lifebelts.

Voila!

 

[Praetor]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

I must say Warped9, I continue to feel overwhelmed and almost stunned silent by the amount of research and detail you've put into this and the stunning results you've already produced. It's an incredible undertaking that I hope you'll certainly finish as you've outlined and the drawings with the placeholder internals up higher are terrific.

I will say that I don't think that the life belts are that implausible, all things considered.

 

[Warped9]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

^^ Thanks.

The drawing aspect of this project isn't the tough part. It's the planning, conceptualizing the details and thinking in a three dimensional manner that are the most time consuming as well as the most potentially defeating.

And I mean no disrespect to the original producers, but I doubt they really thought the shuttlecraft through to this extent.

 

[Praetor]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

I don't think they did either, especially since Jefferies' involvement with the finished product was pretty peripheral.

 

[Timo]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

A few musings on nomenclature...

We know that shuttles of the TOS type can be called "Class F", as per "The Menagerie". But in other Trek contexts, admittedly from the spinoff shows rather than TOS, the word "Class" seems to be used for describing a category of designs, while "Type" is used to single out a specific design within the class.

And to be sure, nothing in "The Menagerie" requires Class F to be specific to the design we saw. The ship's computer was analyzing the craft that was tailing the ship, and was apparently narrowing down on the specific type by studying the craft's very general characteristics one by one (duranium shell, ion engine power) before Spock told it to shut up. So I presume to suggest that Class F would be a broad category that encompasses both of the designs you have drawn up - your F and H classes - and that the computer would have described either of them in the same terms in "The Menagerie".

A Type number could then be assigned on these two very similar designs, to create a somewhat more complex and realistic-looking designation system. Shuttlecraft of drastically different size, capabilities or mission could then be given their own Class letters.

This helps with the rather pressing problem where we get dozens of shuttle designs within just two very short timespans - the TOS and TNG/DS9/VOY eras - and we still hear single-digit or low two-digit Type designations for the latter set. A higher-order category such as Class letter would help enormously with this. Perhaps the TNG era craft all fall within a new, versatile multipurpose Class while there were more specialized and limited Classes (from A to F at least) in the TOS era?

Just musing. And suggesting.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Warped9]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

^^ You have a good point, but I stuck with the class designation system because that's how it was introduced in TOS. And as I stated way, way back in the original thread where I started this project I'm extrapolating from the material presented to is in TOS, TAS and TMP, and I'm not much interested in how the tech stuff was one in Trek after that. This project, in a sense, is meant to evoke and harken back to that sense of anticipation when FJ's blueprints and reference manual bowed in the mid '70s.

You're right, though, that something like Class F sounds more like what type of shuttlecraft the starbase vehicle was rather than which specific model of vehicle.

 

[Warped9]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

Something new.

I apologize for the slow pace, but as this proceeds I'm doing my best to figure out and consider where things should go.

Referring to "The Galileo Seven." When McCoy and Mears are throwing stuff overboard we see a large cylindrical object as well as a large and shiny cubed shaped object. It's anyone's guess what these things were, but we could assume that as they got between bulkheads in the aft cabin they were prying out equipment from there. To that end I'm trying to include objects that are roughly that size and shape to be seen between the hulls. My present assumption is that they may be related to the waste management system and/or raw materials reprocessing or even the food/beverage systems.

Another tidbit. When Scotty elects to drain the phasers as a supplemental fuel supply he's not accessing the systems from the aft access panels outside the ship but from a floor access panel in the main cabin. Although they're using the word "fuel" what they really must mean is energy. That tells me that there must be power conduits running under the cabin from aft to fore and one of which allows Scotty to drain the phasers into the craft's power system. It's possible that Scotty is doing it from inside because he can't access the power system from outside as it's either hard to get to and/or he doesn't have the appropriate equipment at hand to do it that way.

It's tidbits like those above that I try to use as clues to help me decide where to put things.


There's a fellow who hosts a website featuring all manner of blueprints from fans and pros (like FJ) alike although there is some question as to whether he actually got permission from everyone to display their work. He contacted me about a year ago to ask about hosting this project. I politely declined and informed him that this is still a work in progress and that I have my own plans for my work and how I'll share it.

A little more specifically. When I'm done I'll be putting together something of a PowerPoint and Keynote presentation that will feature the drawings along with accompanying music and sound f/x. I wish to add that the drawings will be of sufficient resolution for computer monitor display yet not sufficient enough to produce acceptably sized prints from. This will be one form for the final product and available as a free download.

The other form will include the above as well as all the drawings in resolution suitable for printing as 8x11 or 11x17in. sheets. This set will be available only to those who contact me directly and express interest. Also, there are some on this forum who I'll be giving a set out of gratitude for their great help and insights during this project.

 

[Warped9]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

I've had ideas about the spaceframe almost from the beginning when I decided to depict the guts between hulls. Indeed within the hour I'll probably start sketching out some of my ideas.

The spaceframe meeting the exterior hull should be relatively easy. But moving inward then gets tricky and that's why I chose to draw out the life shell to get a better sense of where the structural frame can attach to the inner hull.

I also have a couple of other ideas, one of which Timo gave me. I'd been trying to figure out where to put ventilation ducts and life support systems when he suggested the overhead lighting panel could also house life support vents. Then it hit me: In the 23rd century you certainly shouldn't need an oversized hanging structure for interior lighting such as we see onscreen, but what if much of the life support systems were housed in the box like frame that surrounds the overhead lighting panel? It's not only space effective but it's also readily accessible in terms of maintenance.

Secondly if you look at the interior you can see four wall panels on each side that look rather detachable. That could very well be if you need to swap out equipment for mission specific gear or to access the 'tween hulls mechanicals. It also saves me the trouble of trying to fashion some contrived overhead storage bins.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Timo]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

Yeah, in general, I'd like to pretend that every light source in Star Trek is just a few atomic layers thick, and just a centimeter or so thick with all the supporting whatevertronics. The huge and clumsy structures on top of the mothership's hangar bay could quite possibly serve an almost identical double function: in addition to illuminating the bay, they could pump massive amounts of air into the bay both for routine ventilation and for emergency repressurization purposes.

As for the trick of energizing the shuttle with phaser batteries, it might be of significance where this extra energy is injected. One might imagine a system roughly similar to the TNG era warp drives, wherein a power source (not dilithium-regulated antimatter annihilator in this case, but an ion cascade engine) injects some sort of energy (EM or perhaps something more exotic) into plasma, and the plasma then carries it to the warp coils which light up and produce a subspace field.

Now, this system would allow for the following: fuel is what is normally "burned" in the reactor to energize the plasma, but one might also feed some energy into the plasma after it has left the reactor. The phaser batteries could do this if they were connected to the plasma leads coming from the reactor, then running underfloor past the life shell to reach the sides of the craft, and then doing a short up-out-down loop to reach the nacelles. The batteries could not be connected to any of the regular power sockets of the ship (because those only serve the secondary power grid for the instruments, lights, life support and so forth), and they could not be connected to the fuel port outside (because that only accepts deuterium, or whatever the fuel preferred by the ion engine), but they could be connected to some gadget in plasma midstream so that they would act analogous to fuel.

What would this gadget be? Perhaps it's an energy tap normally - a way to tap power from the primary grid into the secondary grid so that the drive systems can power up life support systems. But the tap would also work in reverse if needed. So one could feed power from the secondary grid into the primary one to boost the drive (something the mothership does often enough), and one could also use nonstandard sources of power for this application.

Now comes the grand finale: plasma is flowing into the nacelles for the subspace drive that gives the shuttle its amazing ability to defy gravity and inertia. It gets substandard boost from the reactor, but is re-energized by the gadget hooked to the phaser batteries. Yet let's say the plasma is deuterium plasma (or whatever other fuel the ion engine uses), the same stuff that is used for creating energy in the reactor. If Spock chooses to vent this plasma out of the nacelles, he can legitimately claim he's venting "fuel". And he's "igniting" it by energizing it to luminescence, even though both of his expressions are somewhat colloquial and not rigorously correct in terms of science and engineering.

Long story short: please insert a primary-to-secondary power tap under that floor, and have the main power grid conduits run through it from the stern compartment to the nacelles.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Warped9]

Re: My TOS shuttelcraft (continued)...

^^ Despite appearances I'm being careful not to get too specific as to where things are. Namely, there are power conduits under the floor, but I'm not specifying what they are or what they do. Sadly I'm just not that technically conversant.

I don't have the screen caps at hand yet (I might do that this afternoon), but are a few thoughts.
- trying to get a handle on the approximate size and shape of the assorted stuff McCoy and Mears are heaving overboard.
- measuring the plate in the middle of the aft cabin floor. That would make another dandy service access panel.
- in one scene Boma is shown crawling out from under the Galileo, suggesting that there must be another access panel under there, which is possible since we've never seen the underside of the shuttlecraft onscreen at any time.