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My Opinion of Dwight Schultz Just Went Through The Roof!

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You are being narrow minded on this one. Many of those people on that list did indeed turn out to be Communist; that can not be denied.

The fact he had a list of 'communists' is exactly the problem - whether they were or not is irrelevant. For someone who has started a thread about discrimination because of political views to suggest that blacklisting people because of communist or suspected communist opinions was the right thing to do is hilariously hypocritical. Basically, they want a "free country" when it comes to political views, as long as those views are good and conservative.
 
So basically now he's washed up, he speaks out - he has the courage of a mountain lion.

Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, and your indefatigability.
 
it's this absolutely stupid and insane 'us vs them' attitude . . .

is political prejudice any different than racial prejudice?
 
[Even Robert De'niro joked about all the straight guys Penn had played and he won this year for playing a Gay activist in a movie that no-one outside the academy saw...

That wasn't the joke at all, was it? The way I remember it, all Deniro said was, "How did you convince us you were straight all these years?"
 
Work and politics do not mix. It was a mistake for Schultz to think he can defend his positions with his colleagues and superiors. And it's too bad, because he's a great actor and could have gone much further than he has.

Yet in some states, it is illegal to discriminate against someone in the workplace because of their out-of-work campaign activities. Some companies, in their policies, even prohibit IN-work political expression as a means of ensuring that there will not be the perception of such discrimination. In corporate America, the law is set up to try and ensure that people are hired and fired on their abilities, not on characteristics that don't impact their work quality. (In fact, a lot of civil rights legislation, when geared to the workplace, is intended to ensure that outcome.)

In other words, what's happening in Hollywood is behavior that's not acceptable in corporate America. Schulz's politics--or those of any actor--should not be used in place of acting skill/resemblance to the character required, to determine whether someone gets a role or not.

I appreciate his writing, but come on now. Artists seldom lean right, and there are good reasons they don't. You'll find moderates and libertarian types, but seldom a straight-up GOP supporter, especially a Christian Conservative like Bush. And even if it were not so, defending a President who was responsible for the torture, and murder, of prisoners, ummm yeah. That might make you feel like an outsider, Mr. Schultz.
It might have something to do with that particular President being diametrically opposed to that which artists and musicians tend to represent.
Fuck, it's like complaining about feeling ostracized for being a pro-gun control Socialist who works in a gun shop.
Or like marveling at the conspiracy of sticking your hand in boiling water, and getting burned.
All that said, it takes balls to write a blog like that given the atmosphere. And Barclay might have been my favorite TNG character. I sincerely hope Schultz hasn't been denied opportunity because of his politics.

I think this is a very common misunderstanding about the nature of art and creativity, and one that leads to the kind of discrimination we're seeing in Hollywood.

It's a huge mistake to assume that the creative drive will only manifest itself in those of a liberal persuasion. Creativity in fact appears in people of all political persuasions, and to automatically dismiss the talent of conservatives is shallow at best. True, prominent conservative artists, actors, what have you do seem less prevalent these days. But the real issue these days is one of patronage, not talent.

Go back, for instance, to the medieval/Renaissance days. In those times, in order to make a living, an artist often had to be sponsored by a wealthy patron. These tended to be people in political power who were conservative in bent. That said--I think we can safely say some extremely high-quality art came out of that time period, whether or not you agree with the Christian bent that most of it took.

These days, the patronage situation has reversed itself. Those in "power" (i.e. running the film and publishing houses) are now of a liberal bent, and "sponsor" those of a similar ideology. They also espouse a certain definition of creativity that typically requires one's work and speech to be of what I would call a transgressive nature--that is, it must be seen as attacking the boundaries of the art form, the past, or society itself, in some form or fashion. To a liberal, this attack is viewed as justified, because they believe they need to reshape society in their image, and may not believe there is any value in tradition.

A conservative artist, however, may not see the need to destroy those particular boundaries, and their art may well express itself differently. Yet the talent is still there! It just does not fit the definition established by those who would be patrons to an up-and-coming artist/actor, and therefore they are turned aside. And even more insidiously, their contributions themselves are often seen as lesser because of this definition of "what creativity is" that has been promulgated by the liberal Hollywood establishment.

Again, I could point to some examples of extraordinary talent in people throughout history whose political views would be considered extremely conservative today, throughout history. That they held those beliefs did not make them any less creative or talented. It simply made them people you (liberals) would disagree with were you to talk with them.

I thought it was an interesting article. I am sure there are a lot of conservative actors that are afraid to admit it for fear of being blacklisted. It is a shame that Dwight wasn't allowed to audition for a part because he had different political views. So much for a "free country."

And I think that's a shame. The lack of decorum that Schulz points out is a major problem not just in artistic circles but in fan and media circles as well. The fact that one can hardly have a civil discourse on politics these days, without bringing emotions into it to a destructive degree is a tragedy. The open discussion Schulz had with Paul Newman is much more what SHOULD be occurring: both sides able to talk to each other without insults and without cutting each other off simply because they disagree.

I am glad, therefore, that Schulz was willing to dissent. Perhaps if the discussion became more balanced, the "mob mentality" on the more populous side (in Hollywood) would vanish and its policies on hiring would have to come more in line with corporate America (i.e. casting solely on the basis of talent and fit to the character required), simply because one side could not intimidate the other by sheer numbers.

Sucks. He puts a lot of nuance in his performances. Personally, I think he's A-list in talent. To turn someone like that aside, not even audition, because of what the lunchtime coversation might be like, is lame and unproffesional.

"Unprofessional" is a very good word for it. See what I had to say about corporate America above.

So basically now he's washed up, he speaks out - he has the courage of a mountain lion.

Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, and your indefatigability.

That's not what I got from the article. He opens by stating that he's been an open conservative for 43 years. That's a pretty far cry from only speaking up at the end of his career. His views weren't a mystery to anyone he would've been working with--and that's what actually caused some of the discriminatory incidents he describes: his known reputation preceded him.

This might be the first time the general public is hearing about it, but it seems to me that he's been bucking trends for four decades and having to absorb the consequences for it the entire time. That, in my mind, is pretty brave--to know you had the chance to go to greater heights, but to possibly have sacrificed that chance for one's principles. Even if he does say he's had failings and times where he didn't stand up where he could've, I'd say the fact that he recognizes it is very important. That's much "bigger" than a lot of people would do.

(I did notice he was also quite clear in explaining that he wasn't perfect either, and not pushing off all of the failures of his career onto politics. Also quite brave--nobody likes to make that sort of admission even though we all know it's true for everyone.)
 
Excellent and intelligent post, Nerys...:bolian:

I would wager that this type of political discrimination from the left in Hollyweird occurs far more often than not.

This thread is very likely a microcosm of what goes in in Hollyweird with regard to political and ideological differences.
 
meh, another right winger whinging about 'liberal' Hollywood. The difference is that Schultz can write and he can admit that there are some good liberals, aside from that it's the usual culture wars rubbish.


No, he's speaking of his own experiences. And I, quite frankly, applaud him for speaking out. I believe him when he talks about mentality out there and he comes across as very courageous and not willing to follow the herd to be accepted or get a job.

You can't dismiss his experiences...or his courage in light of being vastly outnumbered by liberal wack jobs.

His experiences are at best anecdotal, unverifiable (as far as we're concerned) and only really compelling to him and him alone. I neither dismiss them, nor do I accept them or hold them up as evidence of anything. I don't care about his political views. Personally, my opinion of Mr. Schultz went through the floor when I discovered that HE IS A UFO CONSPIRACY BELIEVER!

He apparently believes in Roswell, alien abductions, government cover-ups, the whole nine yards. He thinks that when we began to detonate atomic bombs, "...[it's] incredible release of energy and light may have signalled somebody in a dimension which is sharing space with us very closely."

Remember the episode of TNG, "Schisms?" Yeah... he thinks that may have actually happened. :guffaw:

Frankly, he's as scientifically ignorant as Dan Aykroyd, another very talented actor and writer who believes in pseudoscience and superstition. He commits all the usual logical fallacies: argument to ignorance, wishful thinking, ad hoc hypothesis, the post hoc fallacy, confirmation bias, relying on testimony rather than evidence, etc. To me, he simply fits the common pattern of a credulous actor. His political affiliation is incidental, just an accident of geography and parentage.


***

All this bickering over politics reminds me of the scene in "Lonely Among Us" between Picard and Riker when they are discussing the Selay and Antican delegates:

Code:
                    PICARD
                (to Riker)
            Do you understand the basis of
            all that nonsense between them?

                    RIKER
            No sir. I didn't understand that
            kind of hostility even when I
            studied Earth history.

                    PICARD
            Oh? Well, yes, but these life
            forms feel such passionate hatred
            over differences in customs, God
            concepts, and even strangely enough,
            economic systems...
 
I am surprised that anyone is surprised about the entertainment industry beeing liberal. If you want to sell a product to a wide audience around the world you need to be liberal, so you can deliver a product that is attractive to as much people as possible. If you're conservative you're just playing to that perticular group and as such limiting the profit.
 
It's really hard to cheer on the 'titan of industry' as he heroically saves "The Company" a MILLION dollars a year by finding a way to dump the toxic waste in a schoolyard for blind children and not get caught.

A lot fewer 'Heroic Hooks' there if you know what I mean.

;)
 
meh, another right winger whinging about 'liberal' Hollywood. The difference is that Schultz can write and he can admit that there are some good liberals, aside from that it's the usual culture wars rubbish.


No, he's speaking of his own experiences. And I, quite frankly, applaud him for speaking out. I believe him when he talks about mentality out there and he comes across as very courageous and not willing to follow the herd to be accepted or get a job.

You can't dismiss his experiences...or his courage in light of being vastly outnumbered by liberal wack jobs.

His experiences are at best anecdotal, unverifiable (as far as we're concerned) and only really compelling to him and him alone. I neither dismiss them, nor do I accept them or hold them up as evidence of anything. I don't care about his political views. Personally, my opinion of Mr. Schultz went through the floor when I discovered that HE IS A UFO CONSPIRACY BELIEVER!

He apparently believes in Roswell, alien abductions, government cover-ups, the whole nine yards. He thinks that when we began to detonate atomic bombs, "...[it's] incredible release of energy and light may have signalled somebody in a dimension which is sharing space with us very closely."

Remember the episode of TNG, "Schisms?" Yeah... he thinks that may have actually happened. :guffaw:

Frankly, he's as scientifically ignorant as Dan Aykroyd, another very talented actor and writer who believes in pseudoscience and superstition. He commits all the usual logical fallacies: argument to ignorance, wishful thinking, ad hoc hypothesis, the post hoc fallacy, confirmation bias, relying on testimony rather than evidence, etc. To me, he simply fits the common pattern of a credulous actor. His political affiliation is incidental, just an accident of geography and parentage.


***

All this bickering over politics reminds me of the scene in "Lonely Among Us" between Picard and Riker when they are discussing the Selay and Antican delegates:

Code:
                    PICARD
                (to Riker)
            Do you understand the basis of
            all that nonsense between them?

                    RIKER
            No sir. I didn't understand that
            kind of hostility even when I
            studied Earth history.

                    PICARD
            Oh? Well, yes, but these life
            forms feel such passionate hatred
            over differences in customs, God
            concepts, and even strangely enough,
            economic systems...

I have absolutely no doubt the political events he describes are factual. The liberal loonies I have encountered in my lifetime completely validate Schultz's described experiences.

Most are always oh-so-tolerant and compassionate...until they run into a conservative and conservative ideals. Then tolerance gets drop kicked out the window at warp speed and the true nastiness comes out; fangs beared.

Come to think of it, I don't think they are genuine with regard to ANY of their alledged "tolerance" and concern either. It's all smoke and mirrors and always has a politically ulterior motive behind it all. And it's about control. The more people they can convince of their alledged "benevolence" the more people willing to cede control of their lives to them -- vis-a-vis, big government. That's what it's really all about.

So there.

As for UFO's/Roswell/ETs...why not? As John Lennon sang in the song "Nobody Told Me" -- "There's UFO's over New York and I ain't too surprised."

How can anyone believe in the potential existence of intelligent extraterrestrial life and not accept the possibility that they may have technology far in advance of ours (particularly anyone broad minded enough to enjoy science-fiction -- or to dream of those fictional (?) possibilities)? If one accepts both possibilities, then it stands to reason they might have found a way to visit here...either in the past or the present.

The same people who believe an ape can turn into a human given enough time seem to have a problem with alien visitation and UFOs.

That's pretty ironic to me...:lol: Personally, I'd sooner accept the theory of UFOs being alien craft.

Long story short: I have no problem with Schultz's UFO interest and his political experiences ring true to me. We see the kind of nonsense he describes every day from the likes of Barbara Streisand, Alec Baldwin, Sean Penn...idiots like that. Why would anyone ever doubt what Schultz describes as being anything less than the "God's given truth"?
 
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My Opinion of QuasarVM Just Went Down the Toilet!

Sir/Ma'am...whatever you are...

That just cuts me to the quick. You have no idea the emotional damage you have caused me.

My day is shot now. Completely shot.

But...wow...a very witty, educational, informative and highly intellectual comeback!

:guffaw:
 
With the passing of Ron Silver, I'm gonna have to call Schultz out on his essay. I won't deny the leftist bias from Hollywood, sure, but Silver's being remembered as one of the best character actors there is, and he's a staunch conservative who managed to constantly work. He even managed to create a character that accurately reflected his views for The West Wing, a heavily liberal show, and the lights on Broadway are dimming in his honor (Broadway being much more liberal than Hollywood to begin with).

Is there a bias in Hollywood? Sure, of course there is. But that doesn't necessarily bar a conservative actor from succeeding, either. You've also got Drew Carey, Gary Sinise, Bruce Willis, Kelsey Grammar, Dwayne Johnson, Robert Duvall, Robert Davi, etc... actors who themselves don't make an issue about Hollywood's leftist bias, but rather trump it by not complaining about it, and then going on to vociferously endorse and publicly assist the conservative causes they themselves believe in. Special mention to Johnson and Wil Wheaton, as it appears that if you disagree with them politically, they'll probably buy a few beers, smile and politely disagree and still have a good, productive topical conversation with you. That's bipartisanship.

(I could have mentioned Larry the Cable Guy and Britney Spears as right-to-rightofcenter celebrities, but I think they hurt, rather than help, the conservative movement.)

This feels like Garret Wang Syndrome, frankly.

With all due respect to Mr. Schultz, whose Reginald Barclay I'll always have in my heart, if he plays the "I'm a conservative and thus can't work in Hollywood" card, I'll respond with, "So what if you're a conservative actor? If anything, that's all the more reason for you to prove liberal Hollywood wrong."
 
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With the passing of Ron Silver, I'm gonna have to call Schultz out on his essay. I won't deny the leftist bias from Hollywood, sure, but Silver's being remembered as one of the best character actors there is, and he's a staunch conservative who managed to constantly work. He even managed to create a character that accurately reflected his views for The West Wing, a heavily liberal show, and the lights on Broadway are dimming in his honor (Broadway being much more liberal than Hollywood to begin with).

Is there a bias in Hollywood? Sure, of course there is. But that doesn't necessarily bar a conservative actor from succeeding, either.

True...there are exceptions...

I don't think Schultz was saying it's impossible to succeed though. He was just talking (mostly) about the bias. I agree there's plenty of conservatives who do not feel compelled to talk about the bias. I'm not sure why Schultz chose to...but it's within his right to do so.

And you're right...Ron Silver was a great character actor!
 
I don't think Schultz was saying it's impossible to succeed though. He was just talking (mostly) about the bias. I agree there's plenty of conservatives who do not feel compelled to talk about the bias. I'm not sure why Schultz chose to...but it's within his right to do so.

Oh, he has the right to do so, sure, just as Tom Cruise has the right to try and sells us on Scientology.

I honestly think that this whole "Hollywood = left wing actors" is only perpetrated by a handful. I've no idea how business is run there, but as far as actors go, it feels like one Alec Baldwin is worth ten other liberal actors, people who swing left but, like many of their conservative creative counterparts, don't try to make politics their defining work issue. It's always the vocal minority that creates the illusion of a powerful majority.

I'm willing to bet that most of the time we see a traditionally labelled leftist actor campaign for something in a magazine (say, US Weekly or Entertainment Weekly), the campaigns themselves tend to be apolitical in the first place. I'd posit that you're much more likely to see coverage of celebrities at events for Breast Cancer or AIDS Awareness as opposed to, say, gun control or opposition to Iraq.
 
I don't think Schultz was saying it's impossible to succeed though. He was just talking (mostly) about the bias. I agree there's plenty of conservatives who do not feel compelled to talk about the bias. I'm not sure why Schultz chose to...but it's within his right to do so.

Oh, he has the right to do so, sure, just as Tom Cruise has the right to try and sells us on Scientology.

I honestly think that this whole "Hollywood = left wing actors" is only perpetrated by a handful. I've no idea how business is run there, but as far as actors go, it feels like one Alec Baldwin is worth ten other liberal actors, people who swing left but, like many of their conservative creative counterparts, don't try to make politics their defining work issue. It's always the vocal minority that creates the illusion of a powerful majority.

I'm willing to bet that most of the time we see a traditionally labelled leftist actor campaign for something in a magazine (say, US Weekly or Entertainment Weekly), the campaigns themselves tend to be apolitical in the first place. I'd posit that you're much more likely to see coverage of celebrities at events for Breast Cancer or AIDS Awareness as opposed to, say, gun control or opposition to Iraq.


To be quite brually honest...I wish they'd all shut up and just act.

I don't really need to know about their politics as I don't go to actors (or musicians either) for their political acumen or guidance.
 
I like, & try to:brickwall:, separate entertainers/performers from their own individual or any politics.

Thanks for the link to Lt. Barclay's article QuasarVM.

Interesting perspective/account.

Intriguing, regardless of an aficionado's political mentality.

:vulcan::klingon::rommie::borg:
 
I like, & try to:brickwall:, separate entertainers/performers from their own individual or any politics.

Thanks for the link to Lt. Barclay's article QuasarVM.

Interesting perspective/account.

Intriguing, regardless of an aficionado's political mentality.

:vulcan::klingon::rommie::borg:

Ainnothang, Aque!

I agree with you! Let's keep politics out of entertainment!

:techman::techman::techman:
 
I don't think Schultz was saying it's impossible to succeed though. He was just talking (mostly) about the bias. I agree there's plenty of conservatives who do not feel compelled to talk about the bias. I'm not sure why Schultz chose to...but it's within his right to do so.

Oh, he has the right to do so, sure, just as Tom Cruise has the right to try and sells us on Scientology.

I honestly think that this whole "Hollywood = left wing actors" is only perpetrated by a handful. I've no idea how business is run there, but as far as actors go, it feels like one Alec Baldwin is worth ten other liberal actors, people who swing left but, like many of their conservative creative counterparts, don't try to make politics their defining work issue. It's always the vocal minority that creates the illusion of a powerful majority.

I'm willing to bet that most of the time we see a traditionally labelled leftist actor campaign for something in a magazine (say, US Weekly or Entertainment Weekly), the campaigns themselves tend to be apolitical in the first place. I'd posit that you're much more likely to see coverage of celebrities at events for Breast Cancer or AIDS Awareness as opposed to, say, gun control or opposition to Iraq.


To be quite brually honest...I wish they'd all shut up and just act.

I don't really need to know about their politics as I don't go to actors (or musicians either) for their political acumen or guidance.
Yet you applaud any "right wing" actor who speaks up?

And why exactly should they "shut up". Would you tell a plumber or doctor to shut up? If not, why are entertainers a special class with limited rights?
 
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