My Gripes with STID!

[Disco]

I'll still say:
Khan in STID kicked more ass in two minutes than WoK Khan did in both Space Seed and WoK combined.

Seconded. TWOK/Space Seed Khan suceeded because he was underestimated. STID Khan played Kirk and was much more cunning.

If only they had casted Khan well...

They did

 

[Jedi_Master]

Shall we move on to a different gripe?
For example, the inexplicable promotion of Chekov to Chief Engineer?

Who they gonna promote? Nameless redshirt #12?

That's true.

But it was one of those "we need Scotty to be somewhere else" plot conveniences. Scotty had to be on the Vengeance to save the lives of the crew and to allow access to the ship for the K brothers.
So you got to get Scotty off the ship, and do it in a dramatic fashion. Thus the resignation.

You also need to give poor Anton some screen time.

Thus the promotion.

It fits the needs of the plot, but it doesn't fit the character.

I would have liked if Chekov could have gone with Kirk, Spock, and Uhura on the mission to Kronos. In the "prime" timeline Chekov eventually specializes in Security, so it would have been a nice nod to have him, instead of Cupcake join that team, and perhaps even have an action shot or two.

His shots in Engineering did nothing to define or advance his character, and it would have been simple enough to have a nameless crewmember say the lines given to Chekov. They could have even made some weird alien be the new Chief.

 

[Lance]

I agree. In fact, if I were a cynic, I'd suggest that the idea of promoting Chekov was motivated by nothing more than what the writers thought was a killer one-liner ("Go put on a red shirt.")

 

[Jedi_Master]

I agree. In fact, if I were a cynic, I'd suggest that the idea of promoting Chekov was motivated by nothing more than what the writers thought was a killer one-liner ("Go put on a red shirt.")

That was one of the few one liners that wasn't funny in STiD.

I think Chekov deserved better, and who cares about Cupcake anyway?

 

[BigJake]

I don't get the "CumbyKhan" could have been anybody argument because the exact same could be said for TWOK [...] TWOK could just as easily be rewritten for another character with just as few changes to the script needed to make it work.

Whether or not you want to admit that the characters' shared history -- in particular Kirk's shared history with both the villain and with Spock -- were important to the dynamics that made Wrath work... they were. You're mistaken. How do we know this? We know because switching Khan out for a random slightly-rewritten player and running the same basic set of beats was tried. It was called Nemesis, and well... you can see how that worked out.

Oh, and:

Khan's personal traits: intelligence, strength, ethnic/religious background, etc. had no impact on the film whatsoever.

All parts of this statement are demonstrably false. (They're to some extent true of CumberKhan, obviously, but not the least bit of his predecessor.)

 

[Locutus of Bored]

But it was one of those "we need Scotty to be somewhere else" plot conveniences. Scotty had to be on the Vengeance to save the lives of the crew and to allow access to the ship for the K brothers.
So you got to get Scotty off the ship, and do it in a dramatic fashion. Thus the resignation.

It wasn't a "plot convenience" though, it was a logical outgrowth of the character's background (prime and alt universe) and the story. Scotty is a man of integrity who cares deeply about his ship and his crew. It makes perfect sense that he would object to the presence of uninspected weapons and a mission of dubious intent involving his ship and his friends.

You also need to give poor Anton some screen time.

Thus the promotion.

It fits the needs of the plot, but it doesn't fit the character.

It's been established that alt-Chekov is a genius child prodigy and polymath who graduated from Starfleet Academy at 17 and cross-trains in multiple departments (in ST09 he's a navigator but has expert knowledge of transporter operations and helped conceive a stealthy attack on the Narada).

It make sense to me that purely out of curiosity and/or under orders (so they'd have a backup) someone like that would want to learn about engineering operations from Scotty.

 

[Jedi_Master]

But does his brief stint as Chief Engineer lead to anything in future films? Scotty is fairly well entrenched in Engineering, Sulu has already been given a chance to command, etc. Where does Chekov go from here?

 

[M'Sharak]

But does his brief stint as Chief Engineer lead to anything in future films? Scotty is fairly well entrenched in Engineering, Sulu has already been given a chance to command, etc. Where does Chekov go from here?

Security Chief, naturally!

 

[BigJake]

Or down the pub.

 

[Jedi_Master]

But does his brief stint as Chief Engineer lead to anything in future films? Scotty is fairly well entrenched in Engineering, Sulu has already been given a chance to command, etc. Where does Chekov go from here?

Security Chief, naturally!

I guess that would honor the Prime Universe tradition of not knowing what the hell to do with the Russian Davy Jones.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Chekov needs "goes nowhere does nothing" stamped on his forehead.

 

[Jedi_Master]

LoB does have a point - perhaps nuChekov will be the designated problem solver/fill in guy.

I just hope he gets to call some alien a Cossack.

 

[kirkfan]

LoB does have a point - perhaps nuChekov will be the designated problem solver/fill in guy.

I just hope he gets to call some alien a Cossack.

Or a coulibiac. (which is a Russian word btw)

 

[Locutus of Bored]

But does his brief stint as Chief Engineer lead to anything in future films?

Dammit J_M, I'm a doctor, not a psychic.

 

[Jedi_Master]

But does his brief stint as Chief Engineer lead to anything in future films?

Dammit J_M, I'm a doctor, not a psychic.

Nicely played.

I felt Chekov deserved better, that's all.

 

[M'Sharak]

LoB does have a point - perhaps nuChekov will be the designated problem solver/fill in guy.

I just hope he gets to call some alien a Cossack.

Not sure Yelchin could give it quite the same contemptuous snarl Koenig did, but I'm willing to be pleasantly surprised.

LoB does have a point - perhaps nuChekov will be the designated problem solver/fill in guy.

I just hope he gets to call some alien a Cossack.

Or a coulibiac. (which is a Russian word btw)

Mmmm, PIЭ.

 

[Lance]

LoB does have a point - perhaps nuChekov will be the designated problem solver/fill in guy.

To be fair, he did kind of have that role on TOS: he seemed to be something of a 'jack of all trades'. But I do think sending him all the way down to engineering, when that department should have a whole bunch of engineers who are specialised in their job and are in a line of succession behind Scotty, is a real wtf moment.

Sometimes I think the nuTrek people have gotten Chekov confused with Wesley Crusher.

 

[BillJ]

Sometimes I think the nuTrek people have gotten Chekov confused with Wesley Crusher.

Stands to reason since Orci and Kurtzman said they are TNG fans.

 

[BigJake]

"Shut up, Pavel!" doesn't have quite the same ring.

 

[Amaris]

LoB does have a point - perhaps nuChekov will be the designated problem solver/fill in guy.

To be fair, he did kind of have that role on TOS: he seemed to be something of a 'jack of all trades'. But I do think sending him all the way down to engineering, when that department should have a whole bunch of engineers who are specialised in their job and are in a line of succession behind Scotty, is a real wtf moment.

Sometimes I think the nuTrek people have gotten Chekov confused with Wesley Crusher.

I did wonder about it for a moment, but then I remembered that Star Trek has a fine history of giving bridge officers jobs that unknowns could easily do, and so I just forgot about it.