My gripe about ST6:TUC

[alpha_leonis]

... which I just watched again last night (for the first time in years), is this:

Much point was made of the fact that the humans, especially Our Heroes, were extraordinarily prejudiced, and needed to "grow up" culturally speaking, in order to *gasp* accept an alliance with the Klingons.

But look at the huge diversity of species among the Federation delegation at the Khitomer conference. By contrast, the Klingon and Romulan delegations were entirely Klingon and Romulan, respectively. You'd never see either of those races subjecting themselves to a non-native president/chancellor. Yet, the (admittedly human-dominated) Federation even elected a non-human president.

To me, the fact that the Federation had such comparatively huge diversity to begin with really undermines the idea that the humans' prejudice was so very extreme.

</gripe>

 

[Therin of Andor]

alpha_leonis said:
Yet, the (admittedly human-dominated) Federation even elected a non-human president.

Who, ironically, has forehead bumps, long hair and long moustaches.

 

[Plum]

The Klingons, at that great dinner scene, pointed out the humano-centric nature of the Federation while further down the table more Klingons were, ironically, pointing out their cultural emperialism.

And hey, they failed to mention their domination of various worlds.

So naturally, Kirk lost it.

 

[Good Will Riker]

Look at it this way:

By law racism is less tolerated in a diversified nation like the United States, yet bigotry occurs all the time.

Same with the Federation; there are humans in the Federation that are biased against the Vulcans, and Vulcans that consider humans to be inferior.

You really have to read between the lines to be able to pick these things up. And the dinner scene aboard the Enterprise-A was probably the best illustration of this in the entire film.

 

[Ward Fowler]

I also think it has something to do with Federation propaganda as well as real world experience. No matter how diverse the society in which you live, if you are taught from birth to hate a race of people, you probably will. Also, Kirk went up against the Klingons in the field of battle many times. Not only that, but a couple of them were responsible for the death of his son, so that's where the real world experience comes in.

 

[Good Will Riker]

The Klingons and Romulans wanted to conquer other races, where as humans wanted other races to be a lot like them. But, then again, Vulcans considered all other races inferior to them. Talk about your IDIC.

 

[Data Holmes]

Where's Quarks speech about the federation being like the Borg?

 

[CoveTom]

Frankly, I think everyone on the Enterprise -- with the possible exception of Spock -- was out of character in this film with regards to their attitude toward the Klingons. I speak specifically about the Enteprise crew because the others in Starfleet who were involved are people we don't have much if any history with and don't really know what's in or out of character for them.

Despite what happened to his son, Kirk's absolute hatred for seemingly every Klingon seems very out of character for him. Kirk, of course, would have very strong feelings regarding the death of his son, but he's also rational and mature enough to blame the rogue Kruge and his crew for that, not an entire species. And Kirk, while having very strong emotions and being prone to flying off the handle at time, has also been shown to be a very enlightened individual and one who believes in basic rights for all. Lastly, in the preceding movie, we see at the end that Kirk is able to welcome Klingons aboard the Enterprise and treat them with warmth and friendship.

Yet here in this film he is willing to go so far as to tell Spock that the Federation should let an entire race of people die. Even William Shatner was uncomfortable with Kirk's utterance of that line, and begged Nicholas Meyer to allow him a reaction shot immediately afterward showing Kirk's regret at having said it. But although it was filmed, Meyer cut the reaction, and so we are left with Kirk saying "let them die" and leaving that sentiment stand.

The rest of the crew are even worse. None of them have the personal experience of Kirk's loss to justify their conduct. When, in all of Trek, have we seen these characters being so openly degrading to members of another species? Scotty's line "I'll bet that Klingon bitch killed her father" makes me wince every time. Scotty's an outspoken one to be sure, but I'd never heard him say anything to that extreme before. And standing around the transporter room talking about their smell and so forth takes the cake.

I understand the goal was to provide a parallel to the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union and to show the irrationality of racism and bigotry. But the way in which they went about it, IMHO, totally violates everything we know about these characters.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Something big and nasty must have happened with the Klingons between ST V and VI. Sulu's been off on his own longterm mission, but we don't know exactly what the rest have been up to... The Klingon ambassador, in ST IV, threatened, "There'll be no peace as long as Kirk lives" and maybe they've made it really personal.

The novelization of VI goes part-way to explaining the resentment of Kirk's officers: Klingons have been making surprise raids on various UFP colony worlds, and one recent raid has left Carol Marcus near death.

 

[Good Will Riker]

CoveTom said:
And standing around the transporter room talking about their smell and so forth takes the cake.

That was the open bigotry of 2 Starfleet human assassins under the direct command of Valeris, not the views of our heroes.

 

[Kryton]

I'm the only person I know who outright hates this movie. I may re-evaluate it again one day, but I've seen it maybe 4 or 5 times, total. And not once in the past decade. Bleah.

 

[ancient]

Good Will Riker said:
Vulcans considered all other races inferior to them. Talk about your IDIC.

If you're a super-genius are you allowed to think you’re smarter than everyone else?

 

[Kryton]

Wile E. Coyote did.

 

[CoveTom]

Good Will Riker said:
That was the open bigotry of 2 Starfleet human assassins under the direct command of Valeris, not the views of our heroes.

You're right, my mistake. But our heroes did still have a quite out-of-character chat about the Klingons immediately following their beam-out.

 

[Turtletrekker]

^Nichele Nichols flat out refused to say a line that went something along the lines of, "Yeah, but would you want you children to marry one?"

 

[Data Holmes]

CoveTom said:

Good Will Riker said:
That was the open bigotry of 2 Starfleet human assassins under the direct command of Valeris, not the views of our heroes.

You're right, my mistake. But our heroes did still have a quite out-of-character chat about the Klingons immediately following their beam-out.

Going by the exchange:

SCOTTY: Thank God.

UHURA: Did you see the way they ate?

CHEKOV: Terrible table manners.

SPOCK: I don't believe our own conduct will distinguish us in the annals of diplomacy...

KIRK: I'm going to sleep it off. Let me know if there's some other way we can screw up tonight.

You have Checkov and Uhura discussing the klingons table manners, Scotty acting thankful that the "diplomatic function" is over, Kirk acknowledging that they screwed up with the dinner, and agreeing with Spock's assessment.


Nothing over the top really.

 

[Plum]

Turtletrekker said:
^Nichele Nichols flat out refused to say a line that went something along the lines of, "Yeah, but would you want you children to marry one?"

Yea, this phrase was part of the racist rhetoric of the late 60s. Nichelle would remember it well.

Like many of the lines in TUC there are cultural touch stones in dialog that are recognizable as our own political journey (well, the American journey).

It's an extremely racist and hurtful thing to say, I can understand her balking at it. Though I think the line could have fit into the scene. After all, a major theme in the movie is bigotry.

 

[Sharr Khan]

prejudice was so very extreme.

I think that was the point... and a theme of the movie.

Sharr

 

[Starbreaker]

The president looks Human at first glance... it's not that big of a shock.

 

[Therin of Andor]

?

You have no idea how many people have asked me why the UFP President was a Klingon.