My Conclusion: STXI = Reboot

[Opus]

I've been thinking about this for a while, and reading my old Trek movie novelizations, behind-the-scenes books and articles, and have come to the conclusion that we can only think of this movie as a reboot.

But before the stones start flying, let me explain.

When The Motion Picture and subsequent TOS movies came about, they were always meant to be direct extentions of TOS. Yes, they were greatly "reimaged", including a new Enterprise design, sets and uniforms, but Trek's "new look" was meant to connect with TOS.

TNG was also a kind of "reimage", yet still connected to TOS indirectly through the use of madels from the TOS movies, to actual TOS actors appearing as their original characters on the show. We were even treated to the wonderful scene of Scotty and Picard enjoying drinks on TOS' Constitution Class Enterprise bridge.

DS9 paid tribute to TOS with it's Gump-style FX and masterful sets built for "Trials and Tribble-ations". Voyager connected us indirectly with TOS while visiting Sulu's command of Excelsior in TUC during "Flashbacks".

Even ENT had a wonderful adaptation of TOS and the Mirror Universe, complete with Archer in his Green command shirt on the bridge of the TOS era Defiant thought lost in the TOS episode "The Tholian Web".

But now we come to this movie. Despite having Leonard Nimoy in the movie, TOS itself has been radically changed. The uniforms are different by all accounts. We have been hearing reports that Enterprise herself is going to be "updated". It seems that the once untouchable original which, up to this point, was always considered special and unique and recognized by every incarnation after it, is being swept away.

It's a reboot.

I'm not really saying it's bad or good. It just is. It's not going to stop me from seeing the movie. I'm still curious to see if they can capture the wonder of the original. I just see it as a true reboot now.

Thoughts?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I used to think it wouldn't be a reboot, but with those uniforms...now I'm not so sure.

If it's not a reboot, how come we never saw uniforms like that before?

 

[Samuel T. Cogley]

OphaClyde said:
But before the stones start flying, let me explain.

*** picks up stone... decides whether or not to read the rest of the post***

 

[number6]

I think it's too soon to tell.

 

[Balthier the Great]

So they changed the uniforms. I think you're placing way to much emphasis on the color of the pants Kirk wears.

The essence of Trek wasn't having Kirk in the right uniform, or not changing the set. The idea is exploration. I'd be far more inclined to call XI a reboot if it lacked the science fictiony goodness of TOS. Somehow all of this got backwards and Trek is only Trek for having the right look. Trek is Trek if it has the Trek nature. It would have been Trek if they made the TNG actors act nude on an empty set. What matters is the content, not the dressing.

 

[Samuel T. Cogley]

OphaClyde said:
The uniforms are different by all accounts. We have been hearing reports that Enterprise herself is going to be "updated". It seems that the once untouchable original which, up to this point, was always considered special and unique and recognized by every incarnation after it, is being swept away.

We haven't seen "the uniforms" yet.

We've seen uniforms, but we've been given no indication that that those are the uniforms that will be worn by Spock, Pike, etc. while serving on the Enterprise. There are likely many different characters/extras wearing many different uniforms.

I'm guessing that the changes to the Enterprise will be minor. More texture. More detail. Nothing that directly contradicts.

Even if there are some contradictory cosmetic changes, a few cosmetic changes does not a reboot make. Almost every Star Trek movie and every new Star Trek series makes changes to the ship, the sets, and the costumes. Just because Star Trek XI is sandwiched between "The Cage" and TOS proper (maybe), that doesn't mean that they can't have a little fun with the design elements and still keep the story in current continuity.

Besides, they said it fits into current continuity, so I'm guessing, for the most part, it will.

 

[Opus]

BalthierTheGreat said:
So they changed the uniforms. I think you're placing way to much emphasis on the color of the pants Kirk wears.

The essence of Trek wasn't having Kirk in the right uniform, or not changing the set. The idea is exploration. I'd be far more inclined to call XI a reboot if it lacked the science fictiony goodness of TOS. Somehow all of this got backwards and Trek is only Trek for having the right look. Trek is Trek if it has the Trek nature. It would have been Trek if they made the TNG actors act nude on an empty set. What matters is the content, not the dressing.

In a certain way, I agree with you. This is why I am going to see this movie regardless of what it "looks" like.

But I can't help but think that despite Trek's changing look over the years, it never changed the look, or even shyed away from the look, of its past. In almost every incarnation of Trek up to now, the original look of TOS was always acknowledged, and most times revered by the new team of creators.

This is no longer the case with Abrams and co.. They are changing the look of the original, and I cannot help but think that, at least on the surface, this is no longer the Star Trek lineage that took us through the TOS movies, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT. Even with Nimoy aboard, this is a reboot. To what extent remains to be seen, but it is.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I must say I love the irony of the whole thing: people are falling all over themselves to say that this film *won't* be a reboot, while many of the same people constantly bitched that Enterprise WAS one.

 

[Samuel T. Cogley]

OphaClyde said:
But I can't help but think that despite Trek's changing look over the years, it never changed the look, or even shyed away from the look, of its past. In almost every incarnation of Trek up to now, the original look of TOS was always acknowledged, and most times revered by the new team of creators.

One major difference is that in those previous instances, it was a brief trip into the past. Nostalgia for nostalgia's sake. It was preaching to the diehards and the diehards alone.

This new movie isn't just a momentary foray into nostalgia. It's an attempt to reboot the entire franchise. So they'll want to capture the charm and the essence of the original show, but now -- more importantly -- they have to introduce a whole new generation/audience to the world of Star Trek. People who weren't already sucked in by what came before.

It's a delicate balance, but both camps are going to have to give a little. It won't be something entirely new. It won't be something entirely old.

Besides, after we've had time to digest the film, we'll probably love a lot of the changes. And in time, they will just be part of the canon just like everything else. Anything too jarring will be the stuff that we will rationalize after-the-fact and/or bitch about for years to come.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Here's the thing:

In a lot of ways, the new movie will be a lot like the original "Star Trek."

And in a lot of ways, it'll be different - a little different here, a lot different there.

More different in looks than in content. Not 100 percent the same in content, though.

I take it that there's a need for a single word or overarching concept to frame all of that with - "reboot," "reimagining," or whatever - but I'm not sure why.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Either it's in continuity or it isn't. Can't be both.

 

[number6]

I suppose that would depend on your definition of continuity. I doubt there are any two people here who argree on that definition, or the definition of reboot, or reimagining.

 

[Samuel T. Cogley]

I think a lot of it comes down to:

A) Did I spend a bunch of time and money on stuff that I may or may not have enjoyed, mostly because it was allegedly part of the larger Trek universe continuity and I wanted to stay in the know?

B) And is all that going to be for nothing if this is a reboot?


....and/or....


A) Are we ever coming back to the stuff I like, or are we leaving all that behind forever?

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

There has never been Trek made before with the intent of being outside continuity. Official statements have said nothing to make me think this will be otherwise.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Mighty Monkey of Mim said:
There has never been Trek made before with the intent of being outside continuity.

The Rihannsu novels? (I remember at least one of them had a disclaimer that specifically said it wasn't in continuity.)

 

[Sharr Khan]

Babaganoosh said:

The Mighty Monkey of Mim said:
There has never been Trek made before with the intent of being outside continuity.

The Rihannsu novels? (I remember at least one of them had a disclaimer that specifically said it wasn't in continuity.)

That wasn't always so - when those novels were first written they were intended to be as much a part of the Trekverse as it existed then as any offshoot product.

One assumes this note only got added after it was clear Duene's Vulcan's and Romulan's were somewhat alternate to how they'd been established in TNG onward.

Sharr

 

[Opus]

Babaganoosh said:

The Mighty Monkey of Mim said:
There has never been Trek made before with the intent of being outside continuity.

I don't know that books are considered canon.

The Rihannsu novels? (I remember at least one of them had a disclaimer that specifically said it wasn't in continuity.)

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

OphaClyde said:
I don't know that books are considered canon.

I said *continuity*, not canon.

6th day of XMe$$ said:
I suppose that would depend on your definition of continuity. I doubt there are any two people here who argree on that definition, or the definition of reboot, or reimagining.

Okay, you lost me.

I honestly didn't know the definitions of such terms was so nebulous. For example, nobody seriously thinks that nuBSG exists in the same 'universe' as the original BSG, right? That's what a reboot/reimagining is. It's what I always thought it was, anyway. nuBSG is a reboot of the old; the new Bionic Woman series is a reboot of *its* original; etc. Those remakes are obviously not in the same continuity as their originals. I hope this won't happen here.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Babaganoosh said:

The Mighty Monkey of Mim said:
There has never been Trek made before with the intent of being outside continuity.

The Rihannsu novels? (I remember at least one of them had a disclaimer that specifically said it wasn't in continuity.)

I was talking about Trek series and films. Novels and everything else are separate things.

 

[number6]

I don't personally think those terms are that nebulous either, but when the question was posed in FOT several months back, I was pretty surprised how people defined those terms, as I was during the run of ENT with complaints of canon and continuity violations.. I don't think this new film will go as far to reimagine the franchise as BSG and Bionic Woman have. I also don't think this will be a complete reboot. The producers have said as much. We have a good year of waiting before anyone will know for sure.