My biggest fear? KIRK

[Jeyl]

Dislike Richard Riddick. You lost me there

First movie I liked a lot. Second movie I loathed.

 

[Kirk1980]

Have I liked what I've seen of Kirk in the previews? Eh, not sold on him thus far.

But...hey, it's a trailer, there's ALWAYS room for improvement

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I didn't like how the new actor said he didn't try to mimic Kirk. That's precisely what he should have been doing.

No, that's the kind of dumb thing a non-actor or really amateurish one would do...unless the intent was to be funny.

You can mimic a character's mannerisms without lampooning him.

If they're reasonably subtle mannerisms and you do it very sparingly, it can work a little bit sometimes - McGregor did it some in the first SW prequel. It already looks like there's a bit of that going on in Pine's performance anyway. But you're mistaken to think that a dramatic performance of any quality can incorporate the kind of broadly eccentricities of delivery and mugging that characterize Shatner's acting style as Kirk. They might just as well cast Eddie Murphy in the part as ask someone to do that.

Pine is doing the right thing as an actor and just as a grown-up human being.

 

[FordSVT]

I didn't like how the new actor said he didn't try to mimic Kirk. That's precisely what he should have been doing.

No, that's the kind of dumb thing a non-actor or really amateurish one would do...unless the intent was to be funny.

You can mimic a character's mannerisms without lampooning him.

I'm not so sure, not in this case. People have been making fun of Kirk for DECADES, the moment Pine made that same kind of dramatic pause it would be just.... over. Shatner's portrayal is iconic, I can't imagine a way to credibly imitate him. No way.

He was SMART not trying to imitate Shatner. You can play the same character by going to his core and bringing that out for the audience, it has nothing to do with making the same dramatic pauses and clutching your hands to your chest and flopping all over the place.

 

[Ghrakh]

I wonder if Pine will say the TOS opening monologue?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Well, not at the opening surely...

 

[FordSVT]

Well, not at the opening surely...

I'd bet money that they end the film with those words.

 

[Franklin]

Well, not at the opening surely...

I'd bet money that they end the film with those words.

I don't know. Could be kinda hokey depending on how the movie ends.

Looking back, if Nimoy hadn't already said it to end TWOK, it might have been a touching moment for him to do it at the end of this movie.

 

[Norrin Radd]

He was SMART not trying to imitate Shatner. You can play the same character by going to his core and bringing that out for the audience, it has nothing to do with making the same dramatic pauses and clutching your hands to your chest and flopping all over the place.

Core? What does that mean, exactly?

I'll give you an example...you could say that at his core, Ray Charles was a brilliantly gifted piano player/singer/composer who happened to be both blind and African American. You could make the argument that everything else about him is relatively superfluous.

If Jamie Foxx had played merely the "core" of Ray Charles and ignored, say, his distinctive laugh, gestures, and way of speaking...I don't think audiences would have been nearly as enthralled by his performance, or the movie, and I severely doubt Foxx would have won an Oscar.

Now, you could argue that because Kirk is a fictional character, it doesn't matter nearly as much, but I argue otherwise. In the minds of many fans, casual and not, Kirk is as real as William Shatner himself.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

When a movie comes out about some guy trying to make his way into the world, the least I would ask the movie to do is give me something to care and appreciate about this character so I can agree with the character's adventures being fulfilling.

A lot hinges on the charisma of the actor involved. And some of it will hinge on whether Abrams et al remember that there are actual ideals to the Federation that anyone who joins Starfleet should at least show some interest in. Kirk certainly learns to care about those ideals regardless of whether he did as a callow youth.

Those two elements - Pine's charisma and Kirk's interest in Starfleet ideals (whether that exists at the very start or is developed - should be enough to establsih viewer identification with the character).

He wasn't much of a driver on the tv show either.

Obviously that car was stick shift.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Now, you could argue that because Kirk is a fictional character, it doesn't matter nearly as much, but I argue otherwise. In the minds of many fans, casual and not, Kirk is as real as William Shatner himself.

Good luck to them, then, because attachment to those quirks as part of the character's "reality" is truly pathetic.

And good luck to Pine, trying to do the real work of an actor in an environment poisoned by that mindset.

 

[Ovation]

He was SMART not trying to imitate Shatner. You can play the same character by going to his core and bringing that out for the audience, it has nothing to do with making the same dramatic pauses and clutching your hands to your chest and flopping all over the place.

Core? What does that mean, exactly?

I'll give you an example...you could say that at his core, Ray Charles was a brilliantly gifted piano player/singer/composer who happened to be both blind and African American. You could make the argument that everything else about him is relatively superfluous.

If Jamie Foxx had played merely the "core" of Ray Charles and ignored, say, his distinctive laugh, gestures, and way of speaking...I don't think audiences would have been nearly as enthralled by his performance, or the movie, and I severely doubt Foxx would have won an Oscar.

Now, you could argue that because Kirk is a fictional character, it doesn't matter nearly as much, but I argue otherwise. In the minds of many fans, casual and not, Kirk is as real as William Shatner himself.

Those fans need therapy. The difference you are so casually ready to ignore is, in fact, essential to explain why Foxx was entirely justified in his approach whereas it would be sheer folly for Pine to do the same. If, someday, someone wants to do a biopic of Shatner, and in that film (as there would necessarily need to be) the actor playing SHATNER is portraying SHATNER as "Kirk", then that actor would be entirely justified in his attempt to mimic Shatner. But "Kirk" is NOT Shatner (nor is the reverse true) no matter what some delusional "fans" (of which I suspect there are far FEWER than you think) might "think".

 

[ST-One]

He was SMART not trying to imitate Shatner. You can play the same character by going to his core and bringing that out for the audience, it has nothing to do with making the same dramatic pauses and clutching your hands to your chest and flopping all over the place.

Core? What does that mean, exactly?

I'll give you an example...you could say that at his core, Ray Charles was a brilliantly gifted piano player/singer/composer who happened to be both blind and African American. You could make the argument that everything else about him is relatively superfluous.

If Jamie Foxx had played merely the "core" of Ray Charles and ignored, say, his distinctive laugh, gestures, and way of speaking...I don't think audiences would have been nearly as enthralled by his performance, or the movie, and I severely doubt Foxx would have won an Oscar.

Now, you could argue that because Kirk is a fictional character, it doesn't matter nearly as much, but I argue otherwise. In the minds of many fans, casual and not, Kirk is as real as William Shatner himself.

Those fans need therapy. The difference you are so casually ready to ignore is, in fact, essential to explain why Foxx was entirely justified in his approach whereas it would be sheer folly for Pine to do the same. If, someday, someone wants to do a biopic of Shatner, and in that film (as there would necessarily need to be) the actor playing SHATNER is portraying SHATNER as "Kirk", then that actor would be entirely justified in his attempt to mimic Shatner. But "Kirk" is NOT Shatner (nor is the reverse true) no matter what some delusional "fans" (of which I suspect there are far FEWER than you think) might "think".

 

[M'Sharak]

...

...

Those fans need therapy.
[...]
no matter what some delusional "fans" (of which I suspect there are far FEWER than you think) might "think".

You could have made all of your points without resorting to allusions to needing therapy or delusional fans. That's getting too close to making personal jabs for my liking, and it doesn't help your position at all.

 

[Kirk1980]

Well, it depends...we have some writers here on the Trek forum who've written classic era stuff....

I wonder if they write him with Shatner in mind? It's easier to separate actor from character when there was a source material beforehand... like a James Bond or somesuch literary figure.

Shatner's interpretation of Kirk has been the sole source of the character's nuances and reactions now consistently for the last forty-three years. And from various sources, Shatner put a lot of himself into the character, too...

Just saying the line has been blurred by these facts some. Now does it leave room for other actors to play the role? Sure but a lot of it will depend on the writing, I think...at least for this go-around.

 

[Michael]

Shatner's interpretation of Kirk has been the sole source of the character's nuances and reactions now consistently for the last forty-three years. And from various sources, Shatner put a lot of himself into the character, too...

If you ask me, Phase II's James Cawley has his Kirk down perfectly, even without resorting to just copying Shatner. Well, at least in the later episodes ...

 

[pookha]

I didn't like how the new actor said he didn't try to mimic Kirk. That's precisely what he should have been doing.

No, that's the kind of dumb thing a non-actor or really amateurish one would do...unless the intent was to be funny.

You can mimic a character's mannerisms without lampooning him.

from some of the stills and the little footage i have seen pine may have done something more different.
instead of just hollow mimicry he has more of the feel of the character down.

still i hope the next trailer has more footage of him in a single scene.

 

[xortex]

'Hey, man, Nero. It's like this ..' I'm hoping he's as different from Kirk as possible to remind us it's not the same Kirk or universe, yet for some reason they are pretending it is.

 

[pookha]

despite whatever differences there are the point may be he still evolves close to being the kirk we know in the end.

 

[xortex]

You're right. Thanx Poohka, as long as they don't try to retell TOS or pretend like it never existed, I'll be a happy camper. Pookha, are you still there??