Must There Be A Section 31?

[XCV330]

It seems like it's been different things at at different times:
United Earth: data brokers with embedded assets. Probably operated more like The Pond than the CIA.
UFP-Klingon War era: Section 31 has grown to the point is has its own uniforms, badged officers, even fleets of ships, culminating in the disasters of the Control crisis.
(During similar time frame in the Kelvin timeline, Sec31 likewise is enlarged enough to command ships and at least one ship construction facility)

Post-Control: Section31 Becomes a sad parody of itself with a series of screw-ups, at least once managed by another screw up, former galactic Empress.

Khan/Genesis Incident and Follow Up: Section31 so diminished by this point they appear to not even be involved. leaving the cleanup of the incident to Starfleet security, and assumedly, Starfleet Intel.

by the Dominion War: far more secretive with plausible deniability, Section 31 operates more like it initially did in the United Earth period.

 

[DonIago]

With regards to Khan/Genesis, I'd just note that that incident appears to have been so generally known that any involvement by S31 would seem to have had a good chance of blowing their cover. Addressing very public incidents seems to be outside their SOP.

 

[Brainsucker]

A clandestine branch of Starfleet, authorized to undertake extreme measures. With no regards for Federation law and presumably no accountability?

Or, an excuse to include a harder edge Starfleet organization. That has all the best toys, breaks all the rules, living life in the fast lane on a roller coaster ride without guardrails?


The recent Section 31 movie got me thinking. With how the DSC, S31 and STID all depict Section 31 as the super spy/black ops branch of Starfleet. Complete with secret star bases (DSC), a fleet of ships (DSC), R&D facilities on Earth (STID), Uber ships that outclass the hero’s (DSC and STID), banned and confiscated technology.

Outside of the “badass”, anti-hero vibe Paramount+ and Kelvin-Trek apply to Section 31.
Is such an organization (to the degree we see them in the aforementioned series) even necessary?

Dare to compare how Starfleet provisioned out missions that you would think would be more suited to Section 31.

TOS: The Enterprise Incident - Where Kirk and Spock sneak aboard a Romulan vessel to steal a cloaking device.

TWOK/TSFS - USS Reliant and later USS Enterprise being in charge of the Genesis project. And how a weapon like that could be perverted to killing entire planets. Data classified at the Captain and above ranks of Starfleet.

TNG:
Face of the Enemy - Troi (reluctantly) and the Enterprise involved in a mission by Starfleet and Ambassador Spock to help Romulan ex-patriots flee the planet.

Chain of Command - Picard, Worf and Dr. Crusher given orders from Starfleet to undergo training for a secret mission in Cardassian space.

VOY:
The Omega Directive - Classified to the Captain’s rank and above. Janeway says that all Captains are trained on how to deal with Omega particles and neutralize them.

I’m drawing a blank on DS9 examples, but I’m sure there are some.These are just off the top of my head.

I ask the question, does a Section 31 need to exist?

StarFleet brass has no trouble enlisting their captains to undertake missions outside the scope of diplomat and explorers all the time. The only time Section 31’s methods were “necessary” (if you can call it that) is when they made Odo patient zero for the morphogenic virus.

With the scheme Sisko pulled on the Romulan’s in the episode “In The Pale Moonlight”. I’m not to bothered by Sloan’s actions in “Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges”. Where they frame a Romulan ally as a traitor to her own species to face trial and execution. Hell, look at how involved Kirk/Spock, Picard/Worf, Sisko/Worf were involved with the internal politics and stability of the Klingon empire. I just don’t see how this secret squirrel branch of Starfleet is secretly “holding it all together”.

This question can also be implemented to how USA spy organization work. What is the need of CIA, NSA, etc, when the army and special forces can also do clandestine missions and spying operations.

 

[The Wormhole]

This question can also be implemented to how USA spy organization work. What is the need of CIA, NSA, etc, when the army and special forces can also do clandestine missions and spying operations.

Same reason why sometimes you use a scalpel instead of a bludgeon.

 

[fireproof78]

This question can also be implemented to how USA spy organization work. What is the need of CIA, NSA, etc, when the army and special forces can also do clandestine missions and spying operations.

To compartmentalize operations, limiting power and specifying operations. The limits of the scope of the mission is to reduce overreach and mission creep.

One size does not fit all despite what Starfleet tries to do.

 

[Turtletrekker]

An interesting thought I had last night...

Spoiler: Andor

It seems to me that Luthan Rael serves the same purpose for the Rebellion that Section 31 does for Starfleet. Someone doing the dirty work so the heroes don't have to. Yet, in the Andor example, people are far more accepting of what Luthan does than they are of what Section 31 does. I just find it interesting.

 

[ThetaSigma]

An interesting thought I had last night...

Spoiler: Andor

It seems to me that Luthan Rael serves the same purpose for the Rebellion that Section 31 does for Starfleet. Someone doing the dirty work so the heroes don't have to. Yet, in the Andor example, people are far more accepting of what Luthan does than they are of what Section 31 does. I just find it interesting.

Probably because the rebellion is fighting a dirty war against a fascist Empire from a position of weakness, the Rebels of course take inspiration for the VietCong.

The Federation meanwhile is an interstellar superpower, the rules tend to be different and not only does S31 go against the values of Star Trek it actively destroys the world created and ignores real world realities about this rogue outfits like Blowback and failure of regulation of security services

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

An interesting thought I had last night...

Spoiler: Andor

It seems to me that Luthan Rael serves the same purpose for the Rebellion that Section 31 does for Starfleet. Someone doing the dirty work so the heroes don't have to. Yet, in the Andor example, people are far more accepting of what Luthan does than they are of what Section 31 does. I just find it interesting.

Spoiler

The Rebellion and the Federation are in such radically different situations it's hard to compare the two. The Rebels are like the Bajoran terrorists, striking against their oppressors by any means they can live with. Luthen's the one who can live with doing anything, to the point where he's even scaring his allies like Mon Mothma. He wanted Ghorman to burn to get more people into the fight, because all he cares about is winning and defeating a tyranny which threatens everyone.

Luthen in this context is a complicated hero or anti-hero, who remains sympathetic because it's hard to disgree with him. The Rebellion will be taken over by more idealistic heroes like Luke and Leia, but it took people like Luthen to light the fuse and get them the tools to fight back.

The Federation is a major superpower with a happy population that depends on its image of being reasonable and trustworthy to operate. The Federation's not trying to defeat tyranny, it's trying to win friends, because it grows by convincing other planets that they'd benefit from membership. It has technological advantages over its neighbors and powerful starships for defence, but it's strongest when it is at peace and works to maintain this situation.

Luthen in this context is a lunatic who needs to be locked up.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Spoiler

The Rebellion and the Federation are in such radically different situations it's hard to compare the two. The Rebels are like the Bajoran terrorists, striking against their oppressors by any means they can live with. Luthen's the one who can live with doing anything, to the point where he's even scaring his allies like Mon Mothma. He wanted Ghorman to burn to get more people into the fight, because all he cares about is winning and defeating a tyranny which threatens everyone.

Luthen in this context is a complicated hero or anti-hero, who remains sympathetic because it's hard to disgree with him. The Rebellion will be taken over by more idealistic heroes like Luke and Leia, but it took people like Luthen to light the fuse and get them the tools to fight back.

The Federation is a major superpower with a happy population that depends on its image of being reasonable and trustworthy to operate. The Federation's not trying to defeat tyranny, it's trying to win friends, because it grows by convincing other planets that they'd benefit from membership. It has technological advantages over its neighbors and powerful starships for defence, but it's strongest when it is at peace and works to maintain this situation.

Luthen in this context is a lunatic who needs to be locked up.

Spoiler

One could argue that Luthan is a lunatic who needs to be locked up in either context.

 

[Phoenix219]

I wouldn't mind if all of the corrupt Star Fleet brass that got exposed were S31 agents who were disavowed.... or scapegoats.... or instigated into their actions covertly by S31. But, it only works when NO ONE knows S31 is real, other than S31 itself.

By doing the dirty work, it allows people like Picard to exist, and lets everyone else truly strive for and believe in the utopia, even if it is just ignorance-is-bliss.

 

[The Wormhole]

An interesting thought I had last night...

Spoiler: Andor

It seems to me that Luthan Rael serves the same purpose for the Rebellion that Section 31 does for Starfleet. Someone doing the dirty work so the heroes don't have to. Yet, in the Andor example, people are far more accepting of what Luthan does than they are of what Section 31 does. I just find it interesting.

Spoiler

During the period Andor takes place in, the Rebels aren't exactly in a winning position. They know some nasty shit needs to be done, if there's someone willing to do said nasty shit so the rest can keep their hands clean, then...

I wouldn't mind if all of the corrupt Star Fleet brass that got exposed were S31 agents who were disavowed.... or scapegoats.... or instigated into their actions covertly by S31. But, it only works when NO ONE knows S31 is real, other than S31 itself.

The problem with making all Starfleet's evil Admirals be a part of or connected to Section 31 is it implies people are only corrupt at the behest of a black ops agency. People can be corrupt for reasons that don't involve a black ops organization at all contrary to what some Star Trek fans or even Star Trek novels seem to think.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

On the one hand, badmirals who believe they're doing the right thing would be probably be on Section 31's 'list of people to recruit'. On the other hand, they're already too busy doing their own bad things to fit any additional corruption into their schedules.

 

[Phoenix219]

Spoiler

During the period Andor takes place in, the Rebels aren't exactly in a winning position. They know some nasty shit needs to be done, if there's someone willing to do said nasty shit so the rest can keep their hands clean, then...

The problem with making all Starfleet's evil Admirals be a part of or connected to Section 31 is it implies people are only corrupt at the behest of a black ops agency. People can be corrupt for reasons that don't involve a black ops organization at all contrary to what some Star Trek fans or even Star Trek novels seem to think.

i was more thinking that their innate ability to be corrupted drew them to the agency, or the agency to them. (i'm not disagreeing, just clarifying what i meant.)

 

[XCV330]

I'd like Lost Era Section 31 to just be like one miserable "Toby Flenderson" character with no real power or anything else he can actually do with his underfunded pointless secret agency.