Murder of TNG?

[RandyS]

I thought Stewart was perfect as Professor X. I just didn't like the way he was so easily taken out or neutralized by the bad guys.

Sure, I thought he made a good Professor X too, but I maintain that the idea that ANYTHING is as good as Star Trek (with the possible exception of Babylon 5) is laughable.

I can't help it. I'm just that partial to the Star Trek franchise.

I love Trek, its been my favorite since I was six, but there many things on TV that are better than Trek.

And Babylon 5 is not one of them.

True, but Babylon 5 IS number two.

At least on my list.

Wait....BETTER than Star Trek? Impossible. I wouldn't have said that forty years ago, and certainly the shit that passes for TV now doesn't count.

 

[Sindatur]

I don't really think its that inaccurate to say the show was cancelled. The studio decided to end the show, it wasn't the decision of the actors - ergo it was kinda cancelled.

Ending a show is never the decision of the Actors? Even if an "irreplaceable" actor decides to leave a show, it's the decision of the Producers/Studio wether they want to try and soldier on, or end the show.

A cancellation is when the Producers/Studio want to continue making the show, and the Network decides they no longer want to support it for the price they are being charged for it. To the best of my knowledge, That's not what happened. The Studio/Producers decided they wanted to move the Series to Movies, and decided to stop offering it to UPN (Or whoever was carrying it, not sure when the station that carried B5, DS9 and TNG became UPN), it wasn't a case of UPN saying they were no longer interested in supporting it.

 

[CaptainMatt]

Television now is a completely different beast than what was on just twenty years or more ago.The golden age of TV is long gone and much of what I get on my service is new non-funny sitcoms, reality shows, and crime darmas that largely mirror each other. I do like NCIS and Law and Order:SVU though on the rare day when I am bored.

 

[CaptainMatt]

I don't really think its that inaccurate to say the show was cancelled. The studio decided to end the show, it wasn't the decision of the actors - ergo it was kinda cancelled.

Ending a show is never the decision of the Actors? Even if an "irreplaceable" actor decides to leave a show, it's the decision of the Producers/Studio wether they want to try and soldier on, or end the show.

A cancellation is when the Producers/Studio want to continue making the show, and the Network decides they no longer want to support it for the price they are being charged for it. To the best of my knowledge, That's not what happened. The Studio/Producers decided they wanted to move the Series to Movies, and decided to stop offering it to UPN (Or whoever was carrying it, not sure when the station that carried B5, DS9 and TNG became UPN), it wasn't a case of UPN saying they were no longer interested in supporting it.

Something like this happened to the Doctor Who spinoff, The Sarah Jane Adventures when lead actress Elisabeth Sladen died last year. The series is releasing the final episodes made before her death and then that's it, game over.

 

[Sindatur]

I don't really think its that inaccurate to say the show was cancelled. The studio decided to end the show, it wasn't the decision of the actors - ergo it was kinda cancelled.

Ending a show is never the decision of the Actors? Even if an "irreplaceable" actor decides to leave a show, it's the decision of the Producers/Studio wether they want to try and soldier on, or end the show.

A cancellation is when the Producers/Studio want to continue making the show, and the Network decides they no longer want to support it for the price they are being charged for it. To the best of my knowledge, That's not what happened. The Studio/Producers decided they wanted to move the Series to Movies, and decided to stop offering it to UPN (Or whoever was carrying it, not sure when the station that carried B5, DS9 and TNG became UPN), it wasn't a case of UPN saying they were no longer interested in supporting it.

Something like this happened to the Doctor Who spinoff, The Sarah Jane Adventures when lead actress Elisabeth Sladen died last year. The series is releasing the final episodes made before her death and then that's it, game over.

 

[CaptainMatt]

Ending a show is never the decision of the Actors? Even if an "irreplaceable" actor decides to leave a show, it's the decision of the Producers/Studio wether they want to try and soldier on, or end the show.

A cancellation is when the Producers/Studio want to continue making the show, and the Network decides they no longer want to support it for the price they are being charged for it. To the best of my knowledge, That's not what happened. The Studio/Producers decided they wanted to move the Series to Movies, and decided to stop offering it to UPN (Or whoever was carrying it, not sure when the station that carried B5, DS9 and TNG became UPN), it wasn't a case of UPN saying they were no longer interested in supporting it.

Something like this happened to the Doctor Who spinoff, The Sarah Jane Adventures when lead actress Elisabeth Sladen died last year. The series is releasing the final episodes made before her death and then that's it, game over.

I know, I was saddened as well by this news but really what can we do?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Sure, I thought he made a good Professor X too, but I maintain that the idea that ANYTHING is as good as Star Trek (with the possible exception of Babylon 5) is laughable.

I can't help it. I'm just that partial to the Star Trek franchise.

I love Trek, its been my favorite since I was six, but there many things on TV that are better than Trek.

And Babylon 5 is not one of them.

True, but Babylon 5 IS number two.

At least on my list.

Wait....BETTER than Star Trek? Impossible. I wouldn't have said that forty years ago, and certainly the shit that passes for TV now doesn't count.

Of course it does. Even when TOS was on the air there were shows better than it. I might not have liked them, but they were. Same as today. There are shows that are better written, acted and directed than all incarnations of Trek. And just as forty years ago, I may not like them, but that doesn't change the fact they are well done.

The percentage of "shit" probably hasn't change in the last 40 years. There were some pretty horrendous shows made in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. My Mother the Car, Manimal, Cop Rock....

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

There are many shows much better than Star Trek. Star Trek is just my universe of choice so it means I will always enjoy Star Trek more than things that may be "better".

 

[nnnnnnn]

There are many shows much better than Star Trek. Star Trek is just my universe of choice so it means I will always enjoy Star Trek more than things that may be "better".

"Better" is highly subjective. Even if one thinks there are better shows, which I don't as a matter of fact, there are certainly no TV shows with

• acting performances as good as Stewart playing Picard;
• better relationships than Picard/Data;
• a better key duo than Picard-Stewart/Data-Spiner;
• plots as crisp and clever as the crispest of TNG (e.g. Cause & Effect);
• main characters as interesting as either Picard or Data.

There are also individual scenes in TNG that are simply better than scenes in current TV shows, in the sense that they are perfectly acted yet portray complex, multilayered ideas: for example, you will never see a scene as multilayered, clever, and funny as the entire "Ode to Spot" sequence from Riker's promising to be at the reading to Riker's snore; or the "Geordi's eyes" conversation between Picard and Data from Data entering to Picard's "Dismissed."


Obviously, some other current shows have advantages over TNG, notably in special effects, camera work, production values, multi-episode plot arcs, consistency, and, in cases like Lost or Office, the overall strength of the ensemble acting (TNG throws in clunkers like Wes from time to time which, e.g., Lost avoids); but no show matches the best points of TNG.

 

[Nightdiamond]

The last two TNG movies, some of Voyager and Enterprise was a sign of what was happening to Trek.
Either Trek was getting tired, or all the creativity was gone.

Some of today's shows are actually pretty innovating.You can't predict the plot twists, and a popular character can be killed off suddenly to everyone's surprise.
Trek was getting bogged down in cliche after cliche.

 

[T'Girl]

Even when TOS was on the air there were shows better than it.

Mannix was pretty good.


")

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

There are many shows much better than Star Trek. Star Trek is just my universe of choice so it means I will always enjoy Star Trek more than things that may be "better".

"Better" is highly subjective. Even if one thinks there are better shows, which I don't as a matter of fact, there are certainly no TV shows with

• acting performances as good as Stewart playing Picard;

• 
  
  Seriously?
  
  Perfectly happy with Stewart, Picard is excellent but dude. The guy never had the material he'd need to become THE BEST TV ACTOR EVER. It was Trek, the material was never going to be there.

 

[Nerys Myk]

There are many shows much better than Star Trek. Star Trek is just my universe of choice so it means I will always enjoy Star Trek more than things that may be "better".

"Better" is highly subjective. Even if one thinks there are better shows, which I don't as a matter of fact, there are certainly no TV shows with

• acting performances as good as Stewart playing Picard;

• 
  
  Seriously?
  
  Perfectly happy with Stewart, Picard is excellent but dude. The guy never had the material he'd need to become THE BEST TV ACTOR EVER. It was Trek, the material was never going to be there.

• Indeed,Stewart is a fine actor. But there are many fine actors on TV. Many who were given material much better than Star Trek.

 

[Mojochi]

Indeed,Stewart is a fine actor. But there are many fine actors on TV. Many who were given material much better than Star Trek.

I believe that there were many instances of the excellence of Patrick Stewart in the material he brought to life as Picard. Such a product that very few actors to ever be televised could have performed as brilliantly. When judging an actor's worth relative to that of others in their medium, I believe the most important criteria is how important their involvement was to the quality & success of the product, & in TNG's case, his involvement meant absolutely everything.

Did the writing, premise, production values, & costars performances make for the best show on tv? Probably not, because in some cases it certainly wasn't. Does that mean that his performance should be valued less? I don't think so. In a way I think it should be valued more from the sheer adversity of that

Having said that, I'd never claim Stewart as tv's greatest actor ever, but I would grant him the praise of being one of the best to ever be televised, even with a character as uncommon as Picard, on a show as unorthodox as Star Trek TNG is to most other tv shows

Among that list, I'd also include actors like, Ian McShane as Al Swearengen in Deadwood, Terry O'Quinn as John Locke & Michael Emerson as Ben Linus in Lost, as well as perhaps Bryan Cranston as Walter White in Breaking Bad

In an odd way, I feel the same about Patrick Stewart as I do Edward James Olmos. Was BattleStar Gallactica a show that fully depicted the quality of his acting talent? Not really, but is he still one of the greatest dramatic actors ever televised? Absolutely, & did we at least get to see some of that surface in his performance of Bill Adama? Yeah.... I kind of think we did

 

[Silvercrest]

There are many shows much better than Star Trek. Star Trek is just my universe of choice so it means I will always enjoy Star Trek more than things that may be "better".

"Better" is highly subjective. Even if one thinks there are better shows, which I don't as a matter of fact, there are certainly no TV shows with

• acting performances as good as Stewart playing Picard;
• better relationships than Picard/Data;
• a better key duo than Picard-Stewart/Data-Spiner;
• plots as crisp and clever as the crispest of TNG (e.g. Cause & Effect);
• main characters as interesting as either Picard or Data.

There are also individual scenes in TNG that are simply better than scenes in current TV shows, in the sense that they are perfectly acted yet portray complex, multilayered ideas.

Obviously, some other current shows have advantages over TNG ... but no show matches the best points of TNG.

These claims are highly subjective.

 

[Start Wreck]

It's all highly subjective. That's the point of an opinion.

For me, The Next Generation is the greatest TV show there has ever been. However, I have no problems whatsoever with it ending when it did.

The ending was touching, memorable, and book-ended the series perfectly. Had the show gone on for another five/seven/ten years, it may have harmed the quality of the whole and left a sour taste in my mouth. Plenty of shows go on for longer than they need to and suffer for it.

I think whether or not it was "cancelled" is arguing semantics. It ended because someone(s) wanted or needed it to end.

 

[MacLeod]

So how do we define cancellation?

A show is considered cancelled when the creative team behind the show wish to contiue with it but the studio/network does not.

 

[Maurice]

Minor point, Paramount had nothing to do with TOS.

Fixed, thanks!

WHAT?! Paramount bought Desilu in 1967 and produced Star Trek for part of its run.

 

[Therin of Andor]

My Mother the Car...

My whole family loved that show.

 

[nnnnnnn]

A show is considered cancelled when the creative team behind the show wish to contiue with it but the studio/network does not.

The "creative team" of TNG includes the fans. It's the fans who've basically been at war with the networks since TOS: the networks constantly want to cancel or destroy or ruin good Trek shows, and the fans constantly advocate for better Trek shows.

It's the fans who try and fight for continuity, for logic, for interest, for entertainment. From the network's point of view, they'd rather not worry about logic or quality or consistency at all.

It is the fans who lost the power struggle with the networks, who want to make boring shows that their poorly educated executives and hack writers can understand. So TNG was canceled over the objections of one part of the creative team - the fans.