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Multiple versions of the same story

I disagree. The STO Solanae are portrayed as a normal space species which was accidentally exiled into subspace during the Iconians' heyday. The novelverse Solanae are native to their subspace realm.

As I recall, the original TNG episode outright stated the latter.

In the novelverse, the prime timeline Krenim found temporally-preserved logs from the U.S.S. Voyager of the two-part episode timeline.

Impossible; Voyager turned off its temporal shielding before ramming the time ship. The records couldn't have been preserved.



Yeah, there is no reason for aggressive Annorax to exist in "Before and After". In fact, logically the two-part episode "Year of Hell" timeline must have been the first to get erased, since the ending propagated changes to history all the way to the 22nd century, whereas "Before and After" only altered history back to 2373. Otherwise, it makes no sense for the characters to remember the ending of "Before and After", which was a normal timeframe setting. That's the way the novels have gone: the Voyager crew remembers how the Doctor stopped Kes from bouncing around in time "Before and After", and Kes retains fragmentary memories of her experiences in the "Before and After" timeline.

If I recall correctly, Annorax built the time ship long before VOY took place, so, yes, he was around during the "Before and After" version of the Year of Hell, he just wasn't relevant to the plot.

Since Seven was a part of the crew for the "second" Year of Hell, that round had to come "after" the Kes one, since part of the premise of "Before and After" is that in that timeline, Seven didn't join the crew. I also took that the VOY crew's unfamiliarity with the Krenim in the two-parter was because Annorax's work slightly revised the timeline so that Kes's memories and report vanished.

On that note, VOY - A Pocket Full of Lies portrays that the Annorax of the prime timeline was still a renowned temporal scientist, but also an advocate of peace. The Krenim were shocked to discover the logs of the "Year of Hell" timeline.

Interesting.
 
As I recall, the original TNG episode outright stated the latter.



Impossible; Voyager turned off its temporal shielding before ramming the time ship. The records couldn't have been preserved.





If I recall correctly, Annorax built the time ship long before VOY took place, so, yes, he was around during the "Before and After" version of the Year of Hell, he just wasn't relevant to the plot.

Since Seven was a part of the crew for the "second" Year of Hell, that round had to come "after" the Kes one, since part of the premise of "Before and After" is that in that timeline, Seven didn't join the crew. I also took that the VOY crew's unfamiliarity with the Krenim in the two-parter was because Annorax's work slightly revised the timeline so that Kes's memories and report vanished.



Interesting.

I dont recall STO going into that level of detail on their past...though its possible that the federation was mistaken when it thought they were native.

The turning off on Voyagers shielding wouldnt affect the books or STO...as we find a different bunch of krenim in Sto and we build the annorax. In the books it was individually shielded message buoys that were recovered, so those records make sense (Sto does something similar after we screw up the timeline.)

As to peaceful annorax...its also establishes the Krenim are more than a little shady, so he may not have been totally all they said.
 
Impossible; Voyager turned off its temporal shielding before ramming the time ship. The records couldn't have been preserved.
VOY - A Pocket Full of Lies depicts that the "Year of Hell" episode's Voyager left temporally-preserved log buoys behind on their journey. Which is a very logical thing to happen in such a scenario.
 
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If I recall correctly, Annorax built the time ship long before VOY took place, so, yes, he was around during the "Before and After" version of the Year of Hell, he just wasn't relevant to the plot.

Since Seven was a part of the crew for the "second" Year of Hell, that round had to come "after" the Kes one, since part of the premise of "Before and After" is that in that timeline, Seven didn't join the crew. I also took that the VOY crew's unfamiliarity with the Krenim in the two-parter was because Annorax's work slightly revised the timeline so that Kes's memories and report vanished.
So by your logic, in every episode after "Year of Hell, Part II", the Voyager crew does not remember the ending of "Before and After". Am I correct in understanding that?

I don't view it that way. Consider that when the prime timeline U.S.S. Voyager makes contact with the Krenim at the end of "Year of Hell, Part II", Janeway agrees with the Krenim officer's command for Voyager to avoid the disputed space. Janeway doesn't even try to bargain an exception as she does in almost every similar situation in the series. Doesn't that point to her remembering Kes's report from "Before and After" and thus wanting to avoid Krenim space?
 
Here's how I addressed the "Before and After"/"Year of Hell" kerfuffle in my Places of Exile annotations:

Despite the order in which events were depicted onscreen, I submit that the entirety of Voyager (and thus the 23rd/24th-century Trek universe as a whole) takes place in the timeline seen at the end of “Year of Hell,” in which Annorax’s timeship had been wiped from existence. After all, there is no explicit mention in “Before and After” of Annorax, a timeship, or any kind of historical alterations; the only thing mentioned is that the Krenim exist and use chroniton-based torpedoes to penetrate shields.

So: “First,” in the Annorax timeline, a version of Voyager encounters Annorax’s timeship and destroys it, resetting the timeline back to the 2170s and creating the timeline seen in TOS, TNG, DS9, and early VGR, in which Annorax never invents his timeship. Two centuries later, in May 2374 in the B&A timeline (six months after B&A), another version of Voyager encounters the Krenim Imperium, which does not engage in rewriting history, but is aggressive in defending its territory. A Krenim ship attacks Voyager without provocation, Janeway and Torres are killed, and the B&A version of the Year of Hell occurs. Four years later, a dying Kes jumps back to 2373 and creates the timeline seen in the series from that point on, telling Janeway of her future experiences with the Krenim. Later, in March 2374 (64 days before Janeway’s May 20 birthday), the final bridge scene of “Year of Hell” occurs: Voyager is hailed by a different Krenim ship, one whose commander is more talkative and warns them to bypass their territory. (By arriving two months earlier, they may have encountered the Krenim before their military status had escalated to the point of firing without warning.) Janeway readily follows their advice, because she remembers Kes’s warnings about the Krenim from the end of B&A. (Why else would she so unquestioningly agree to bypass their territory, rather than negotiating for passage as she normally would?)
 
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So by your logic, in every episode after "Year of Hell, Part II", the Voyager crew does not remember the ending of "Before and After". Am I correct in understanding that?

Yes, pretty much.

I don't view it that way. Consider that when the prime timeline U.S.S. Voyager makes contact with the Krenim at the end of "Year of Hell, Part II", Janeway agrees with the Krenim officer's command for Voyager to avoid the disputed space. Janeway doesn't even try to bargain an exception as she does in almost every similar situation in the series. Doesn't that point to her remembering Kes's report from "Before and After" and thus wanting to avoid Krenim space?

Fair enough. The problem, though, is that if the ending of "Before and After" wasn't erased somewhere along the lines, it raises the question why Janeway tried to bargain at the beginning of "Year of Hell, Part I," since she wouldn't had the same info that she did the second time round. (She could've ignored it or thought the risk was worth the shortcut, but a case can be made that the crew acted like they hadn't heard of the Krenim, and the time ship's incursions affecting Voyager would seem likely. On the other hand, if this theory is right, then I suppose that it could be possible that, when the timeline was erased from existence, that the "Before and After" report snapped back into existence, too.)

Here's how I addressed the "Before and After"/"Year of Hell" kerfuffle in my Places of Exile annotations:

Despite the order in which events were depicted onscreen, I submit that the entirety of Voyager (and thus the 23rd/24th-century Trek universe as a whole) takes place in the timeline seen at the end of “Year of Hell,” in which Annorax’s timeship had been wiped from existence. After all, there is no explicit mention in “Before and After” of Annorax, a timeship, or any kind of historical alterations; the only thing mentioned is that the Krenim exist and use chroniton-based torpedoes to penetrate shields.

If they weren't relevant to the story, of course it wouldn't be brought up. Also, it makes sense that Voyager wouldn't encounter Annorax. They drew his attention when their temporal shielding screwup an incursion, if that didn't happen, then the would go through never learning he existed.

So: “First,” in the Annorax timeline, a version of Voyager encounters Annorax’s timeship and destroys it, resetting the timeline back to the 2170s and creating the timeline seen in TOS, TNG, DS9, and early VGR, in which Annorax never invents his timeship. Two centuries later, in May 2374 in the B&A timeline (six months after B&A), another version of Voyager encounters the Krenim Imperium, which does not engage in rewriting history, but is aggressive in defending its territory. A Krenim ship attacks Voyager without provocation, Janeway and Torres are killed, and the B&A version of the Year of Hell occurs. Four years later, a dying Kes jumps back to 2373 and creates the timeline seen in the series from that point on, telling Janeway of her future experiences with the Krenim. Later, in March 2374 (64 days before Janeway’s May 20 birthday), the final bridge scene of “Year of Hell” occurs: Voyager is hailed by a different Krenim ship, one whose commander is more talkative and warns them to bypass their territory. (By arriving two months earlier, they may have encountered the Krenim before their military status had escalated to the point of firing without warning.) Janeway readily follows their advice, because she remembers Kes’s warnings about the Krenim from the end of B&A. (Why else would she so unquestioningly agree to bypass their territory, rather than negotiating for passage as she normally would?)

Not a bad theory, but it kind of requires ignoring the intent of the show. I'm also skeptical, since Year of Hell 2 had Seven instead of Kes. The circumstances that lead Seven to joining the crew also explained why Kes left. If a timeline with Seven on the crew existed before, things get pretty wonky (and yes, it could be explained via time travel differences. Also, since Janeway could've simply ignored the report the first time around, I don't really see the need to twist the story into more pretzels than it is.

As far as Janeway being more cooperative with the Krenim at the end. A.) The Krenim was far more polite and B.) The VOY crew hadn't tested out the new lab where they had initially learned that Krenim space had a shortcut (like the had in the second Year of Hell timeline at the episode's beginning). Without that knowledge, Janeway may have decided that it wasn't worth going into disputed space.

(I do like your annotations and ideas, but I've found that we really have different opinions on VOY.)
 
Not a bad theory, but it kind of requires ignoring the intent of the show.

Given what a complete conceptual mess "Year of Hell" was, I'm perfectly content with that.


I'm also skeptical, since Year of Hell 2 had Seven instead of Kes. The circumstances that lead Seven to joining the crew also explained why Kes left.

I address that further down in my website annotations, though it's in the context of Places of Exile so I didn't quote it here.
 
Given what a complete conceptual mess "Year of Hell" was, I'm perfectly content with that.

Really? Anything besides the question of how it relates to the ending of "Before and After?"

I address that further down in my website annotations, though it's in the context of Places of Exile so I didn't quote it here.

I do remember reading that. I honestly though that it was far more convoluted than watching the episodes "as is," but your mileage may vary.
 
Really? Anything besides the question of how it relates to the ending of "Before and After?"

Basically, almost any Voyager episode that dealt with time travel was virtually incoherent, and they just got more ridiculous as time went on. Any more I have to say on the subject is on my website already.
 
Say, Christopher, did Kirsten Beyer consult you on the temporal messes of Star Trek: Voyager, or did she independently come to the conclusion that the ending of "Before and After" did indeed happen in the final version of history?
 
Say, Christopher, did Kirsten Beyer consult you on the temporal messes of Star Trek: Voyager, or did she independently come to the conclusion that the ending of "Before and After" did indeed happen in the final version of history?

She did call me up to get my thoughts on some things, and I directed her to my website notes, but my recollection is that her intentions regarding the Krenim and other timelines were already more or less compatible with my ideas. As for that specific point, it was clearly the intent of "Before and After" that its final scenes took place in the main timeline, even if "Year of Hell" seemed to ignore that intention (which is why I felt the bulk of YoH needed to be in a separate timeline).
 
The mission with Joshua Riker has been removed from STO in the October 2015 update.

I know. That's particularly why I would find it amusing to see him turn up elsewhere, and compare it to the traditional corridor shoot out.
 
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