MU: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

[Sci]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

Interesting side note: Since the old Latin motto Quidquid Latine Dictum Sit, Altum Videtur still holds up, I've gone and put together all the Latin section titles from The Sorrows of Empire and Rise Like Lions, with translations:

The Sorrows of Empire

Part I: Sic Semper Tyrannis. "Thus always to tyrants."

Part II: Exitus Acta Probat. "The result validates the deed."

Part III: Sic Transit Imperium. "So passes the empire."

Acta est fabula. "The drama has been acted."

Rise Like Lions

Part I: Ferro Comitante. "My sword as my companion."

Part II: Debellare Superbos. "Vanquish the proud." *

Part III: Post Tenebras Lux. "After darkness, light."

Consummatum est. "It is finished."

* Interestingly, I think I may have found a typo for Rise Like Lions Part II. It's titled "Deballare Superbos," but every Google result I try for "Deballare Superbos" only gives me results for "Debellare Superbos."

 

[Admiral_Young]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

Finally finished this a few moments ago and really enjoyed it. It took me a while to get into the novel, but once I did, it was a great ride. A satisfied conclusion for the Mirror Universe plot...yet it still makes me yearn for more Deep Space Nine novels

 

[Lanny77]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

I purchased this book yesterday lunch time and finished about 3am today. It is incredibly addictive.

My one quibble is with the part regarding Spock and the Trill. Why on earth did he order the genocide of the symbiots? every other morally questionable act of the late emperor I can understand but this kinda feels like "evil-for-sake-of-being-evil"

 

[Christopher]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

My one quibble is with the part regarding Spock and the Trill. Why on earth did he order the genocide of the symbiots? every other morally questionable act of the late emperor I can understand but this kinda feels like "evil-for-sake-of-being-evil"

That was explored in the previous MU novel, The Sorrows of Empire. If I recall correctly,

Spoiler: Sorrows of Empire

Spock became aware that the Trill symbionts were infected by the "Conspiracy" parasites (as they were in the Prime universe in the DS9 relaunch), and since he had no way to tell which symbionts were infected and which ones weren't, he had the entire species (save Dax) wiped out. He saw it as necessary to ensure the success of his plan, since the parasites could've ruined everything. But he didn't shy away from admitting what an evil act it was, and toward the end of his life, he named it as one of his greatest crimes.

 

[Lanny77]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

My one quibble is with the part regarding Spock and the Trill. Why on earth did he order the genocide of the symbiots? every other morally questionable act of the late emperor I can understand but this kinda feels like "evil-for-sake-of-being-evil"

That was explored in the previous MU novel, The Sorrows of Empire. If I recall correctly,

Spoiler: Sorrows of Empire

Spock became aware that the Trill symbionts were infected by the "Conspiracy" parasites (as they were in the Prime universe in the DS9 relaunch), and since he had no way to tell which symbionts were infected and which ones weren't, he had the entire species (save Dax) wiped out. He saw it as necessary to ensure the success of his plan, since the parasites could've ruined everything. But he didn't shy away from admitting what an evil act it was, and toward the end of his life, he named it as one of his greatest crimes.

ah okay. I've only ever read the Glass Empires version of that story. I know there were some difference but didn't think it included anything that extreme.

 

[captcalhoun]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

you really need to read the extended edition, it's got a hell of a lot of stuff in it, including more of the origins of Memory Omega and Mirror-Vanguard's demise

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

I haven't read the full version of Sorrows yet. Does it explain what a lot of us suspect about Memory Omega...

Spoiler: novel

...meaning, that it gets its massively advanced technology by raiding assorted parallel universes?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

I haven't read the full version of Sorrows yet. Does it explain what a lot of us suspect about Memory Omega...

Spoiler: novel

...meaning, that it gets its massively advanced technology by raiding assorted parallel universes?

Spoiler: about your question

No. Mostly I figure they didn't start raiding other universes until some time after the Terran Republic fell.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

It is also explained in the actual novel why Spock eradicated the Symbiont's...in fact Saavik explains the reason to Ezri.

 

[Relayer1]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

Just finished it - it was a great read ! I think it deserved a mention in the 'real page turner / getting the heart pounding' thread.

It does raise the 'Dominion' question, and also DTI did intimate that The Borg take over most of the alternate universes - more MU please !

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

^ About the Borg...not important really, but one of the TNG MU stories says that the MU Borg travel in diamonds, not cubes, and have a King instead of a Queen. I wonder what diverted to cause that to happen.

 

[Sci]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

^ About the Borg...not important really, but one of the TNG MU stories says that the MU Borg travel in diamonds, not cubes, and have a King instead of a Queen. I wonder what diverted to cause that to happen.

I can easily see the I.S.S. Columbia NX-02 encountering the Caeliar as a result of a Romulan attack, being taken hostage, rebelling, and then winding up in 4527 BCE on Arehaz, only with a Caeliar creating the first drones instead of Sedin, giving rise to a Borg King rather than a Borg Queen. All this really requires is that the Mirror Universe Borg Collective be started by a male Caeliar rather than female.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

^ I'm forced to wonder why the MU Caeliar wouldn't simply destroy the ISS Columbia outright, after seeing how violent its crew would surely be.

 

[Sci]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

^ I'm forced to wonder why the MU Caeliar wouldn't simply destroy the ISS Columbia outright, after seeing how violent its crew would surely be.

Because they abhor violence and prefer not to use it unless absolutely necessary, and imprisoning a few measly humans shouldn't be that hard.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

^ Perhaps the MU Caeliar don't abhor violence...

Then again, the MU Borg might have a completely different origin that doesn't involve the Caeliar at all. Think of all the different Borg origin stories floating around out there...one of those might be the MU origin.

Another thing: Destiny makes rather heavy use of characters from the 24th century, most of which are Starfleet. So this couldn't even happen in the MU, since by that time, there is no Starfleet anymore...

 

[Sci]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

^ Perhaps the MU Caeliar don't abhor violence...

Interestingly, it seems that most of the cultures of the Mirror Universe are the same or nearly the same as their Prime Universe counterparts -- except for Humans.

Then again, the MU Borg might have a completely different origin that doesn't involve the Caeliar at all. Think of all the different Borg origin stories floating around out there...one of those might be the MU origin.

It's possible, but I think that would defeat the purpose of calling it a "Mirror" Universe. If the Prime Universe's Borg Collective and its Queen were created by a female Caeliar enslaving Humans from the United Earth Starship Columbia NX-02 on the planet Arehaz in the year 4527 BCE, then I'm inclined to assume that the Mirror Universe Borg Collective and its King were created by a male Caeliar enslaving Humans from the Terran Imperial Starship Columbia NX-02 on the planet Arehaz in the year 4527 BCE unless proven otherwise.

Another thing: Destiny makes rather heavy use of characters from the 24th century, most of which are Starfleet. So this couldn't even happen in the MU, since by that time, there is no Starfleet anymore...

Well, we don't know what name the Galactic Commonwealth's space service will retain. Memory Omega seems to be acting as the Commonwealth's de facto space service, and might retain that name. But it's also possible that the Commonwealth might establish its own Starfleet. Hard to say.

But, yeah, I'd say that the Borg Invasion seems, for now, to be an unlikely event to experience a parallel in the Mirror Universe -- if only because the Borg King has no particular reason to target the Galactic Commonwealth just yet. Of course, who knows what might happen in a few decades?

 

[Admiral_Young]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

Starfleet was of the Terran Empire though...and the entire point of the Commonwealth was to establish its self separately and create something new, so I think they'd probably come up a new name for their naval fleet. Starfleet would have overtones of the Empire IMO if they used it.

 

[Sci]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

Starfleet was of the Terran Empire though...and the entire point of the Commonwealth was to establish its self separately and create something new, so I think they'd probably come up a new name for their naval fleet. Starfleet would have overtones of the Empire IMO if they used it.

That's entirely possible. On the other hand -- how many people are bothered that the German air force is still called the Luftwaffe? It's possible that the term "Starfleet" is considered a generic term for space services, no more objectionable than "Luftwaffe" in German, or "Air Force" in English.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

^Indeed. The fact that both the Terran Empire and the United Federation of Planets (and UESPA before that) called their space services "Starfleet" supports the idea of it as a generic label.

 

[captcalhoun]

Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

the Borg King considers a gender swap at the end of The Worst of Both Worlds.