MU: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

[MatthiasRussell]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

Side Thoughts:
Nice Vanguard tie-in during chapter 8 and how the Tholians destroyed Stabase 47. Love how the Breen, Tholians, and Gorn form the Taurus Pact. There were many instances where you see the timelines/universe still trying to mirror each other. It goes along with the concept of the multiverse trying to converge again as was laid out in Watching the Clock.

Vulcan telepathy is much more powerful in this book than I recall it ever being. Dumar’s handmaiden had an interesting way of using touch for inception in chapter 7. My hat is off to Mack for that scene.

How involved was Peter David in this book? Not sure what the vetting process is. Are we to consider the IDW comic as not part of this continuity?

I like how Picard’s ship is named the Calypso; a nice fan nugget.

So the Memory Omega ships are not similar to Sovereign or Vesta class ships? But they were recognizable as having Starfleet design philosophy. I would love to see them and Erebus station illustrated like Vanguard material has been in a SOTL calendar with the milky way behind them. We need Drexler and Co on this!!!!

I remember Mack mentioning on fb his excitement in killing Klingons while writing this. I picked up that exuberance. I wonder if he felt anything when killing Neelix. BTW, was it ever mentioned how Neelix and Kes came to this quadrant? I must have missed a book.

 

[David Mack]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, MatthiasRussell. I'm glad you enjoyed the book so well.

Concerning the strength of Vulcan telepathy, my canon reference for that was the TOS episode "The Omega Glory," when Spock is able to influence a Yang woman via telepathic suggestion despite never having physical contact with her. I figured if a half-Vulcan could do that… well, you get the idea.

As for the Chapter 7 moment … let's just say it seemed like a moment when the subject's conscious mind would be particularly open and vulnerable.

I consulted Peter David about the use of his New Frontier characters, and at his request I refrained from killing off most of them. I actually made that work as part of the story, accentuating the arc that contrasts Smiley's cursed band of rebels with Calhoun's seemingly blessed crew. Sort of a comment on the unfairness of fate and war. I sent Peter both the final outline of the book and the manuscript for his feedback, as a gesture of professional courtesy.

Re: your question about Neelix and Kes — that was covered in the Obsidian Alliances anthology, in Keith R.A. DeCandido's short novel The Mirror-Scaled Serpent; the development of their story was explored in the Shards and Shadows anthology, in Susan Wright's short story "Bitter Fruit."

Similarly, the Picard/Troi backstory is from the short story "The Sacred Chalice" by Rudy Josephs, the seeds of the Klingon-Cardassian conflict were sown in Keith R.A. DeCandido's "Family Matters," and the Romulan story arc is from Peter David's "Homecoming". I tried as much as possible to incorporate and reconcile all the MU stories from the previous anthologies, out of respect for my fellow authors and also for the fans, who deserve a cohesive continuity whenever possible. (Alas, your supposition was correct regarding the Star Trek: New Frontier comics; I couldn't make "Turnaround" work with Rise Like Lions, either in timeframe or story, so I let it go and stuck to the prose arcs.)

Last but not least, I have to say I would love to see Doug Drexler and his cadre of digital artists brainstorm some designs for the Memory Omega jaunt ships.

 

[Thrawn]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

One thing I never really got was why MO thought Picard would be a good leader. What did he do that put him on their radar? As far as I could tell, he hadn't led more than a couple of other people at a time. Was there more to that choice in the background, or was I just reading too fast?

 

[David Mack]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

^ In the Shards and Shadows anthology, he was depicted as having been part of the resistance, leading and organizing guerilla strikes, etc. His involvement in one such mission is what thrust him and Troi together, in "The Sacred Chalice."

I extrapolated from that, and assumed he had spent some time earning his "street cred" with the rebels; likewise, because of his education with the Cardassians, he had the intellectual chops to attract the attention of Memory Omega.

That's just my theory; your opinion may differ.

 

[WarsTrek1993]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

I'm about 100 pages into this novel and enjoying the hell out of it! David Mack is probably THE best author in Trek lit today.
It's an excellent follow-up to TSoE.

 

[JD]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

^Didn't he also have some kind of a history with the Stargazer crew's MU counterparts? It's been a while since I read Shards and Shadows, but I thought he was at least referenced in the "Stargazer" story.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

My assumption was that Memory Omega kept tabs on Prime Universe developments. I figure with their technology they no doubt had the know-how to develop cross-dimensional teleportation. Spock was also impressed by the UFP and saw it as a society to imulate so he may have wanted to keep tabs on it. If Omega did do that, they may have noted who were the movers and shakers in that universe to see who in their universe had potential.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

As for the Chapter 7 moment … let's just say it seemed like a moment when the subject's conscious mind would be particularly open and vulnerable.

Good point. I shall recommend this method to my wife for getting her way. "Look hun, it was David Mack's idea, not mine."

I consulted Peter David about the use of his New Frontier characters, and at his request I refrained from killing off most of them. I actually made that work as part of the story, accentuating the arc that contrasts Smiley's cursed band of rebels with Calhoun's seemingly blessed crew. Sort of a comment on the unfairness of fate and war. I sent Peter both the final outline of the book and the manuscript for his feedback, as a gesture of professional courtesy.

Nice to know. And he agreed with Soleta being in the book? You felt Soleta was a vital character to keep around? I got the impression from him that he loves his characters deeply and is kind of possessive of them. Nice to know you professionals have this type of courtesy. Good work with Calhoun and company, btw. You captured them well just as you did with your Kebron short story.

Last but not least, I have to say I would love to see Doug Drexler and his cadre of digital artists brainstorm some designs for the Memory Omega jaunt ships.

I loved his Vanguard work, especially with the Sagittarius. I keep meaning to buy the model of the Archer-class someone made. You paint excellent word pictures but digital art really makes it come alive that much more.

I'm looking forward to the Vanguard conclusion. I only wish I could get others as excited about it as I am.

 

[Thrawn]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

^ In the Shards and Shadows anthology, he was depicted as having been part of the resistance, leading and organizing guerilla strikes, etc. His involvement in one such mission is what thrust him and Troi together, in "The Sacred Chalice."

I extrapolated from that, and assumed he had spent some time earning his "street cred" with the rebels; likewise, because of his education with the Cardassians, he had the intellectual chops to attract the attention of Memory Omega.

That's just my theory; your opinion may differ.

No, that makes sense, I'd just forgotten the background from that story. (It's been a while )

My assumption was that Memory Omega kept tabs on Prime Universe developments. I figure with their technology they no doubt had the know-how to develop cross-dimensional teleportation. Spock was also impressed by the UFP and saw it as a society to imulate so he may have wanted to keep tabs on it. If Omega did do that, they may have noted who were the movers and shakers in that universe to see who in their universe had potential.

This is actually the reason I asked the question; that was my theory too. I kept expecting that to be revealed at some point.

 

[Thrawn]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

I'm looking forward to the Vanguard conclusion. I only wish I could get others as excited about it as I am.

Oh believe me, there are plenty of other people as excited about it as you are!

 

[ialfan]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

Started reading this early this morning intending to read a few chapters and couldn't put it down. Excellent novel and a satisfying wrap-up/ending for the Mirror Universe saga.

 

[bullethead]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

I consulted Peter David about the use of his New Frontier characters, and at his request I refrained from killing off most of them. I actually made that work as part of the story, accentuating the arc that contrasts Smiley's cursed band of rebels with Calhoun's seemingly blessed crew. Sort of a comment on the unfairness of fate and war. I sent Peter both the final outline of the book and the manuscript for his feedback, as a gesture of professional courtesy.

Nice to know. And he agreed with Soleta being in the book? You felt Soleta was a vital character to keep around? I got the impression from him that he loves his characters deeply and is kind of possessive of them. Nice to know you professionals have this type of courtesy. Good work with Calhoun and company, btw. You captured them well just as you did with your Kebron short story.

Soleta was pretty instrumental in Calhoun's character arc in the first MU New Frontier story, so she gets to live since MU Shelby only got to show up once.

 

[David Mack]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

^ Soleta was also an important player in the second MU New Frontier story, "Homecoming," in the Shards and Shadows anthology. Peter set up her relationship with Calhoun as an integral element of the MU version of NF.

 

[indianatrekker26]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

the only MU book i own is "Sorrows of Empire" which i have yet to even read. Can i read that one, then read "Rise Like Lions" without being lost? Where I don't need to read those other MU book collections or the DS9 re-launch books that delt with the MU?

 

[Jedi_Master]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

the only MU book i own is "Sorrows of Empire" which i have yet to even read. Can i read that one, then read "Rise Like Lions" without being lost? Where I don't need to read those other MU book collections or the DS9 re-launch books that delt with the MU?

David Mack does a nice job of collating and coordinating all the various MU books and storylines into one novel in "Rise like Lions". He even references earlier stories so that you can keep track of who the various characters are and what they have been involved in previously. I personally read "Sorrows of Empire" than immediately read "Rise Like Lions". I think they complement each other nicely.

 

[Sci]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

the only MU book i own is "Sorrows of Empire" which i have yet to even read. Can i read that one, then read "Rise Like Lions" without being lost? Where I don't need to read those other MU book collections or the DS9 re-launch books that delt with the MU?

David Mack does a nice job of collating and coordinating all the various MU books and storylines into one novel in "Rise like Lions". He even references earlier stories so that you can keep track of who the various characters are and what they have been involved in previously. I personally read "Sorrows of Empire" than immediately read "Rise Like Lions". I think they complement each other nicely.

Having said that, I don't know why you'd want to read Rise Like Lions before The Sorrows of Empire.

 

[DS9forever]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

Can I ask the author a question as to why:

Spoiler: SPOILER

Curzon is the host of Dax in Rise Like Lions, despite Jadzia having been referred to as Dax in "Through the Looking Glass"? Did he receive Dax after Jadzia's death?

 

[David Mack]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

^ Sigh.

Spoiler: The Sorrows of Empire, Rise Like Lions

No. Curzon always had the Dax symbiont. Jadzia never did. As for why she might still have the surname "Dax" in the Mirror Universe, if I really must retcon it for you, I will. Pretend that after the forced disappearance of Curzon Dax (who was quite a celebrity in the Terran Empire and among his people) and the genocide of the symbionts by Captain Saavik (in The Sorrows of Empire), that some members of Trill society adopted symbiont names as new family names in remembrance of the dead and in protest of the actions of the Empire. Consequently, Mirror-Jadzia's family name was "Dax" despite her lack of a symbiont.

That should put this question to rest.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

the only MU book i own is "Sorrows of Empire" which i have yet to even read. Can i read that one, then read "Rise Like Lions" without being lost? Where I don't need to read those other MU book collections or the DS9 re-launch books that delt with the MU?

David Mack does a nice job of collating and coordinating all the various MU books and storylines into one novel in "Rise like Lions". He even references earlier stories so that you can keep track of who the various characters are and what they have been involved in previously. I personally read "Sorrows of Empire" than immediately read "Rise Like Lions". I think they complement each other nicely.

Having said that, I don't know why you'd want to read Rise Like Lions before The Sorrows of Empire.

confused? Neither me nor the other poster stated that we wanted to read "Rise like lions" BEFORE "Sorrows of Empire".

 

[JD]

Re: Star Trek: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions review thread (spoiler

the only MU book i own is "Sorrows of Empire" which i have yet to even read. Can i read that one, then read "Rise Like Lions" without being lost? Where I don't need to read those other MU book collections or the DS9 re-launch books that delt with the MU?

David Mack does a nice job of collating and coordinating all the various MU books and storylines into one novel in "Rise like Lions". He even references earlier stories so that you can keep track of who the various characters are and what they have been involved in previously. I personally read "Sorrows of Empire" than immediately read "Rise Like Lions". I think they complement each other nicely.

If you are planning on reading the other MU and DS9R books, I'd say read them between SoE and RLL, since RLL builds of off pretty much all of them. But if all you want to read is SoE and RLL, you could do that,the book does recap the earlier stories very well.