Mr. Spock instead of Sir or Commander

[Red Ranger]

Spock occasionally called Uhura "Miss Uhura." As for why Spock was called "Mister Spock," Amanda stated in "Journey to Babel" and Spock also stated in "This Side of Paradise" that humans are not generally capable of pronouncing the Vulcan family name. It's a compromise so other people don't have to struggle to pronounce a long surname that likely doesn't have many (or any) vowels.

As for names and ranks, what's with everybody except Janeway being on first-name basis in Voyager? Janeway calls everybody by their first name, no matter if they're on duty or not. And Harry Kim, addressing Tuvok as just "Tuvok" without either "Mister" or his rank...?

Interesting observation. I do recall Capt. Jellico making a point to be on a first-name basis with his officers, but not encouraging the opposite, in Chain of Command. Guess that's part of the "do as I do, not as I say" philosophy of management. -- RR

 

[Chaos Descending]

Including the various air wings onboard and the division head who could be captains of that billet/position, I believe it is thirteen.

Who told you 13?

For one, there is only ever ONE "Air Wing" on a Carrier.

And two, no "division" would ever be led by a Captain. Department, yes. Division, no.

I think the most 0-6 Captains we ever had onboard at one time (normally assigned personnel doing their normally assigned jobs, no visitors or anything) was maybe 7.

13 is just completely unrealistic.

 

[Red Ranger]

Including the various air wings onboard and the division head who could be captains of that billet/position, I believe it is thirteen.

Who told you 13?

For one, there is only ever ONE "Air Wing" on a Carrier.

And two, no "division" would ever be led by a Captain. Department, yes. Division, no.

I think the most 0-6 Captains we ever had onboard at one time (normally assigned personnel doing their normally assigned jobs, no visitors or anything) was maybe 7.

13 is just completely unrealistic.

Not only that, it's bad luck! And isn't saying "O-6 Captain" redundant? In the Navy, an O-6 is a full Captain, yes? Or do you mean to distinguish between O-6s and maybe O-5s who are Commanders but might be captains/c.o.'s on other ships? -- RR

 

[Captain Robert April]

Or to differentiate from the other services O-3 captains....

 

[CoveTom]

As for names and ranks, what's with everybody except Janeway being on first-name basis in Voyager? Janeway calls everybody by their first name, no matter if they're on duty or not. And Harry Kim, addressing Tuvok as just "Tuvok" without either "Mister" or his rank...?

I suppose one could argue that the uniqueness of their situation -- not merely being on an assignment together but being together as an extended family for a potentially 70 year journey -- would naturally breed less formality and more familiarity than would be the norm, even though they had agreed to generally retain Starfleet standards of operation.

 

[Chaos Descending]

Or to differentiate from the other services O-3 captains....

This.

Navy ships also can have Marines aboard. A Marine Captain is much different than a Navy Captain.

Also, I say "O-6 Captain" to differentiate between the rank of Captain and the position of Commanding Officer.

 

[T'Girl]

Y'know, if they all got together on the bridge and, say, the helmsman had to get the attention of the ship's skipper, it might get a tad confusing.

Not at all. The helmsman probably knows the Captain's name, and is bright enough to use it in this situation.

There is also a 'officer of the deck', a OD, who the helmsman would report to if the skipper was in a conference.

I took the number of thirteen captains from a fact book titled "Carrier", the author was aboard the 'U.S.S. John F. Kennedy', at the time of that cruise there were thirteen naval officers on board with the rate of captain.

I should of used squadron, not wing. My bad.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Wow I never meant for this to turn into a technical discussion about ranks. Just why everyone on the Enterprise addresses Spock "Mister" all the time. Let's get back on track here people. Or perhaps the thread has run it's course since we haven't been able to come to a consensus.

 

[Chaos Descending]

There is also a 'officer of the deck', a OD, who the helmsman would report to if the skipper was in a conference.

The OOD is ALWAYS on the bridge while underway, and is the officer responsible to the Captain for the whole ship while on his watch.

There's no such thing on a carrier as "Helmsman" in any case. That would be the "Conning Officer".

And what's an "OD"?

I took the number of thirteen captains from a fact book titled "Carrier", the author was aboard the 'U.S.S. John F. Kennedy', at the time of that cruise there were thirteen naval officers on board with the rate of captain.

I don't doubt the personal experience of the author, but if there 13 Captains on the ship, odds are that five of them were visiting from other ships in the Group.

I should of used squadron, not wing. My bad.

No, that wouldn't have worked either, since squadrons are commanded by Commanders, not Captains.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Well, the Kennedy was decommissioned two years ago, so who knows what was going on.

I'm still confused why they never refit that boat with a nuclear reactor.

 

[Chaos Descending]

Well, the Kennedy was decommissioned two years ago, so who knows what was going on.

I'm still confused why they never refit that boat with a nuclear reactor.

They learned their lesson from Enterprise. It's best to build Nuke ships from the ground up.

 

[Red Ranger]

Well, the Kennedy was decommissioned two years ago, so who knows what was going on.

I'm still confused why they never refit that boat with a nuclear reactor.

They learned their lesson from Enterprise. It's best to build Nuke ships from the ground up.

Why? Just asking. -- RR

 

[T'Girl]

There's no such thing on a carrier as "Helmsman" in any case. That would be the "Conning Officer".

This is from: WWW.NAVY.MIL .....a pretty cool site.

US Navy Today
September 11, 2009

Small Texas Town Gives Abe Two Helmsmen
Story Number: NNS021218-01
Release Date: 12/18/2002 7:28:00 AMBy Journalist 3rd Class Heather Stanley,
USS Abraham Lincoln Public Affairs

ABOARD USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN, At Sea (NNS) -- Quartermaster Seaman Jeremy West joined the Navy to see what the world outside of his small hometown of Borger, Texas, had to offer.

....Culwell is now a master helmsman - qualified to Culwell is now a master helmsman - qualified to drive the ship in restricted evolutions like underway replenishments and pulling into ports. West is training to do the same.

Culwell wants to use his helmsman qualification for future experience. “I wanted to be a master helmsman because I want to drive ships for the Merchant Marines when I get out of the Navy, and I can get the experience here,” said Culwell.

West, who works on the bridge as a quartermaster, said it was watching other master helmsman that made him decide to get qualified.

“(Quartermaster 3rd Class Christopher) Shans is the best driver on the ship,” said West. “I learned watching him drive that it is very challenging work, and you get a lot of respect for it.”

 

[Chaos Descending]

Helmsman is a qualification, not a position.

 

[T'Girl]

The internet's a wonderful thing -- Love getting my facts straight.

 

[Chaos Descending]

Well, the Kennedy was decommissioned two years ago, so who knows what was going on.

I'm still confused why they never refit that boat with a nuclear reactor.

They learned their lesson from Enterprise. It's best to build Nuke ships from the ground up.

Why? Just asking. -- RR

Sorry, missed this the first time around.

Enterprise was designed with old school boiler-tech in mind. Basically they designed and built a steam boiler ship with eight submarine reactor sized reactors shoe-horned in.

Enterprise's engineering plant is an abortion for this reason.

Nimitz was actually designed from the ground up with Nuke-this and Nuke-that in mind. A much better design, IMHO.

The internet's a wonderful thing -- Love getting my facts straight.

Yeah, it can be pretty confusing. Not everything about the military makes the most sense. Luckily you have vets like me who've been there and done that to help explain it for you!

 

[T'Girl]

Sweetheart, the navy calls the people in that position helmsmen. The kids in the official navy press release was refered to as either master helmsman or by his rate of quartermaster or quartermaster third class.

... who've been there and done that ...

If you insist on "conning officer", then back it up with something beyond a simple personal statement.

 

[Red Ranger]

Sweetheart, the navy calls the people in that position helmsmen. The kids in the official navy press release was refered to as either master helmsman or by his rate of quartermaster or quartermaster third class.

... who've been there and done that ...

If you insist on "conning officer", then back it up with something beyond a simple personal statement.

Eh, Chaos is just a cranky old swabbo! Pay him no heed!

I have another possible reason why Spock was most often called "Mister," or just "sir": That's the way he preferred it!

Bear with me here. I got the idea from an early novel, The Entropy Effect, where Spock makes an announcement to the crew. It was an extremely serious announcement, so he referred to himself as "Commander Spock."

Uhura finds it out of character, and remembered that he frequently referred to himself mainly by his positions, either First Officer Spock or Science Officer Spock.

Based on this, my theory is as Spock was raised Vulcan, he's essentially a pacifist, like other Vulcans. Although he's in Starfleet, he prefers to think of himself by his positions and not his rank, with is too militaristic for his pacifist sensibilities, despite the fact he can use force when logic and the demands of the service require it.

Just my two cents, people.

Red Ranger

 

[T'Girl]

I have another possible reason why Spock was most often called "Mister," or just "sir": That's the way he preferred it!


Red Ranger

I believe earlier both Mr. T and the movie "They call me mister tibbs" were brought up. Both are examples of individuals who insist on being call 'Mister' as a show of respect. Gene Roddenberry's future is far from perfect, Spock is a vulcan in what appears to be a service dominated by (white) humans. There is sexism in TOS, and maybe still some specie-ism too.

In addition to being an expression of his non-militaristic pacifist believes, mister is a demand for a open show of respect.


T'Girl

 

[Chaos Descending]

Eh, Chaos is just a cranky old swabbo! Pay him no heed!