Most morally questionable act by a protagonist?

[Cuhl]

I've always had a problem with the TNG episode Homeward. A civilization is going to be wiped out because their planet's atmosphere is dissipating. They haven't brought about their own destruction through their own actions. They're the innocent victims of a random natural disaster that they can't even understand.

Worf's foster brother is knocking himself out to find creative ways to use technology to save these people from extinction while minimizing cultural contamination. And Picard chews him out for violating the Prime Directive! Worf practically disowns him. They'd rather let these people be wiped out rather than violate the Prime Directive.

That draconian interpretation of the Prime Directive seems morally indefensible to me. If the choice is between "contaminating" an alien culture and sitting by while a natural disaster destroys it completely, it seems like a clear choice to me. What good is served by letting a culture die for no reason? Kirk and his crew were knocking themselves out to save a civilization from an asteroid impact in The Paradise Syndrome and no one batted an eye.

It's not just the crew's harsh, Darwinian enforcement of the Prime Directive, it's also the way they act so holier-than-thou and disgusted with Worf's brother that offends me.

As Worf's brother says, "I find no honor in this whatsoever, Captain."

 

[Tuvok]

What Sisko did to get them in the war was very morally problematic, but I don't think that getting them in the war in the first place was wrong. That's like saying that, if you were in the position to try to bring USA into the World War Two, you shouldn't have done it because there would be many American lives lost, nevermind that the opposite might mean the Nazis winning the war.

I voted for what Sisko did in "For the Uniform", because the stakes there were much lower.

Agreed, this was War.

The Romulans would have been taken out by the Dominion if the Federation fell anyway. They saw all Solids as a threat and I dont picture them allowing the Romulans time to plot and build.

So what you're saying is that Sisko tricked them into joining the war against the dominion for their own good?

Should this not be their choice and their choice alone? Is it not wholly immoral to trick another nation into joining your war for your own ends (in this case, to bolster Federation/Klingon defenses)?

Point.

He did it for all their good. The Federation wasn't the only one at Stake the Entire Alpha Quadrant was. Besides, underhand tactics to survive . Well, that positively Romulan then and there.

 

[Cyke101]

Agreed, this was War.

The Romulans would have been taken out by the Dominion if the Federation fell anyway. They saw all Solids as a threat and I dont picture them allowing the Romulans time to plot and build.

So what you're saying is that Sisko tricked them into joining the war against the dominion for their own good?

Should this not be their choice and their choice alone? Is it not wholly immoral to trick another nation into joining your war for your own ends (in this case, to bolster Federation/Klingon defenses)?

Point.

He did it for all their good. The Federation wasn't the only one at Stake the Entire Alpha Quadrant was. Besides, underhand tactics to survive . Well, that positively Romulan then and there.

I'm not taking sides here, but I'm reminded of a story I heard recently of Churchill and another official were dancing when Pearl Harbor was struck. At the time, they didn't know the severity or the tragedy of the attack, all they knew was that after months and months of trying to get the US to join the Allies in the war, the Japanese had done that for them. They were dancing b/c they knew they now had a fighting chance.

In this instance, I feel like America = Romulans, the British = UFP.

Klingons will ALWAYS be Russians (thanks, TUC!)

 

[RegFan]

I voted for Sisko poisoning a Maquis colony. Unlike in In the Pale Moonlight, he didn't have a good reason to do that. He did it just to catch Eddington.

I don't know if it's been said already, but why is there only one option from ENT? Archer did some pretty questionable actions as well. In Damage, he stole another vessels warp coil (granted, he had a very good reason to do that). That was morally just like Sisko cheating the Romulans to bring them into the war. In Similitude, he killed a sentient clone who could have been saved (well, it's a bit different from the Tuvix incident in that either Sim or Trip had to die). In Anomaly, he interrogated a prisoner in much the same way Janeway did in Equinox.

 

[maneth]

Archer in Cogenitor gets my vote. Charlie asked for his help, he should have given it. Granted, Trip made a big mistake when he decided to help Charlie, but once the deed was done, it was irreversible and there end solution, while tragic, was expected. It's not as if it would have affected their entire culture, since Charlie was the only cogenitor on that ship. Not unless the others decided to tell their people what really happened, since an accidental death could always be faked somehow in the records...

Homeward is another one. They should've tried to help. It would have been better to save some than to let the entire race go extinct. Even if they would've been forced to find a new home for them.

 

[ChadHydro]

I voted for Sisko poisoning the planet because, if memory serves (and i admit it may not be), it was the only option on the poll wherein the protagonist was trying to be malicious, although he probably convinced himself that he did it because Eddington was a threat or whatever.

I'm with you on this one. Every time I watch this my mouth drops. I just can't believe he goes through with it

 

[Robert DeSoto]

I say its when the Enterprise NX-01 attacked an Illyrian ship, boarded their vessel, and took their warp coil by force.

All of the other incidents mentioned before are morally ambiguous, but I would not be bothered if I had to do any of them (maybe I'm a cold blooded mofo)

Captain Archer tortured a prisoner before. But that prisoner was not some random innocent person. That guy attacked the Enterprise and boarded the ship. I would beat his ass and THEN throw him in the airlock.

Sisko bombed a Maquis planet. But the Maquis are a terrorist organization. They just attacked and crippled a big ass, fairly well armed Excelsior class Starfleet vessel. Sisko's right. They became an intolerable threat to the security of the Federation. You want to mess with Starfleet vessels? I would show them what Starfleet can do.

Same with Sisko killing Senator Vreenak. The Romulans have been enemies of the Federation for some 200 years. And Vreenak is not some innocent Romulan civilian. The Tal Shiar assassinated the Deputy Chief of Starfleet Intelligence. Why can't I kill one of your Senators? He's a jackass anyway. Plus, the Dominion was going to invade Romulus eventually.

I really don't have a problem with hurting, torturing or killing an enemy. But the Illyrians were completely random and innocent. Not only that, they stop to HELP the Enterprise. Archer returned the favor by crippling their ship and leaving them stranded in dangerous region of space. Given the stakes, I would've done the same. But it would bother me, that these guys suffered because they stopped to help me. I wouldn't feel bad for the guy I threw in the airlock, Vreenak or the Maquis colonists.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

Sisko bombed a Maquis planet. But the Maquis are a terrorist organization. They just attacked and crippled a big ass, fairly well armed Excelsior class Starfleet vessel. Sisko's right. They became an intolerable threat to the security of the Federation. You want to mess with Starfleet vessels? I would show them what Starfleet can do.

But not every human in the DMZ was in the Maquis, surely? Sisko basically ethnically cleansed a civilian population!

 

[ChaosAngel]

I'd have to pick Sisko's poisoning of the planet. Janeway did do quite a few somewhat questionable things (like that interogation, one of the few times Chuckles is good for something) but she never poisoned or destroyed an entire planet.

 

[Robert DeSoto]

Sisko bombed a Maquis planet. But the Maquis are a terrorist organization. They just attacked and crippled a big ass, fairly well armed Excelsior class Starfleet vessel. Sisko's right. They became an intolerable threat to the security of the Federation. You want to mess with Starfleet vessels? I would show them what Starfleet can do.

But not every human in the DMZ was in the Maquis, surely? Sisko basically ethnically cleansed a civilian population!

nah. those guys evacuated in their ships. they're fine. If Sisko really wanted to, he could've gave General Order 24 like Captain Kirk did to the Eminians. And Kirk was not targetting the atmosphere with trilithium resin. He was targetting the Eminian cities with phasers. At least with the resin, you can still evacuate even after it detonates. With phasers, you are vaporized instantly.

 

[Anwar]

Was it ever proven that the TOS Enterprise was actually capable of pulling off General Order 24? I assumed it was just a bluff order the crew used to scare the Eminians.

As for the Maquis, there were supposed to be thousands (if not tens of thousands) of people living on that world. I doubt they ALL got away in time.

 

[T.D. Possum]

I think it's interesting that Janeway murdering Tuvix is getting so many more votes than Riker and the clone murder. To me, those situations are very similar. I'd also say that Riker's actions were slightly worse than Janeway's because at least she had the shaky excuse of getting back two crew members in exchange for the killing. Riker and Pulaski were pretty much just like: "Cha, these clones creep me out, let's kill 'em."

I'm wondering if the clone murder isn't getting a lot of votes because it was presented in a less interesting way onscreen. I seem to remember the clones were sleeping, and Riker looking kind of stressed out and shooting them with a phaser. In fact, I can't even recall if he shot them both, or if Pulaski shot her own. On the other hand, Janeway's killing of Tuvix was much more dramatically interesting. Tuvix on the bridge begging for someone to stop her from executing him, the bridge crew turning away from him, the doctor flat out refusing to kill Tuvix, and Janeway's stone cold face when she put that hypospray on his neck. That was memorable stuff.

(Yeah, I've seen Tuvix more recently than Up the Long Ladder, but I've seen up the Long Ladder multiple times and Tuvix only once, so it evens out.)

I voted for Sisko and the planet poison, anyway, but I thought the different perceptions of Riker and Janeway's murdering incidents was interesting.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Most morally questionable act by a protagonist?

Kirk and crew laughing(or cracking jokes) forcefully at the end of an episode after crew-people died previously...

 

[Pemmer Harge]

As for the Maquis, there were supposed to be thousands (if not tens of thousands) of people living on that world. I doubt they ALL got away in time.

I think we're supposed to assume they did, but it is rather convenient isn't it? Who knew evacuating a planet was so easy?

 

[Cheapjack]

Picard letting Worf get away with murder.

Heinous!!

 

[Anwar]

Why not? Sisko let Worf get away with assassinating the LEADER of the Klingons and no one cares.

 

[AJBryant]

That wasn't an assassination. That was a traditional duel, properly challenged and accepted.

And, for the record, Gowron was the one who made the first move by declaring it a duel rather than just an argument.

 

[Anwar]

And the same thing happened with Duras, all the Klingons there accepted it was a legitimate duel between them.

 

[DevilEyes]

That wasn't an assassination. That was a traditional duel, properly challenged and accepted.

Worf's duel with Duras was completely within Klingon law as well, Worf claimed the right of vengeance, announced a duel and entered into a hand-to-hand fight.

Unless you meant some other incident that I have forgotten about?

 

[Withers]

All of the instances had an element of finality to them except for one. With one exception all of these actions were taken and then couldn't be rectified. Whether they were right or wrong they were done and what was done could not be undone in all cases but one. That the situation could be rectified and wasn't is what makes it stick out in my head as the worst of them all.

Robbing the innocent Illyrians after they had stopped to help Enterprise puts Archer's actions on par with the other Captains forced into a tough spot. 'Morally questionable' is a euphemistic way of saying 'their ends justified their means.' What separates him is the fact that Enterprise could have gone back to help them after the Xindi super weapon was destroyed (and the time line restored and all that.) Even a through away line about dispatching another vessel to find them would have vindicated Archer. But since they did it and just decided doing it and leaving it alone was best that action gets my vote for Most Morally Questionable Act by a Protagonist.

-Withers-​