• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Most evil Enterprise Moment??????

Re: Most evil Star Trek Moment??????

Well, we knew everyone would get out of it. Leaving our heroes in the "jaws of death" is always nerve wracking. It's like Picard walking out and saying, "I am Locutus." I thought, "Oh shit!" I knew he'd be Picard again, but it's that moment of fear for your heroes.
But no one knew if Picard would be saved and restored or how the crew would get out of the Borg situation whereas I pretty much knew how the Xindi arc would be resolved after "The Expanse".
 
Re: Most evil Star Trek Moment??????

But no one knew if Picard would be saved and restored or how the crew would get out of the Borg situation whereas I pretty much knew how the Xindi arc would be resolved after "The Expanse".

In point of fact, we never really saw Picard restored.

We knew he would be though. We had an idea that Riker would go in after him. We also knew - based on the story - that Shelby would help him and that Riker and Shelby would bury the hatchet. So, yeah, we knew.
 
Re: Most evil Star Trek Moment??????

We knew he would be though.
No, no-one could be sure he would return. There was talk about Stewart leaving the show at the time. So it was pretty unclear how it all would eventually turn out. Alternatively Riker would have become captain with Shelby as his first officer.
 
Re: Most evil Star Trek Moment??????

Yeah, that's how they set it up, and that's what would have happened if Stewart hadn't signed his contract. That's why they had Riker get offered the Melborne only to have it destroyed, Hanson tell Picard to light a fire under Riker's ass, and why they made Shelby basically a younger female version of Riker the way he was when he was her age.
 
Re: Most evil Star Trek Moment??????

We knew he would be though.
No, no-one could be sure he would return. There was talk about Stewart leaving the show at the time. So it was pretty unclear how it all would eventually turn out. Alternatively Riker would have become captain with Shelby as his first officer.

I remember it totally different. I never heard Stewart was interested in leaving the show, but I guess I wasn't buying a lot of ST magazines by then. So, I knew he'd be back.
 
Re: Most evil Star Trek Moment??????

For me, the darkest moment is Archer stealing the warp coil in "Damage." I couldn't believe they really had it in them to write Archer that way. It was a great/terrible moment, and showed as they had not shown previously how desperate Archer had become to stop the Xindi superweapon.
 
Re: Most evil Star Trek Moment??????

Well, we knew everyone would get out of it. Leaving our heroes in the "jaws of death" is always nerve wracking. It's like Picard walking out and saying, "I am Locutus." I thought, "Oh shit!" I knew he'd be Picard again, but it's that moment of fear for your heroes.
But no one knew if Picard would be saved and restored or how the crew would get out of the Borg situation whereas I pretty much knew how the Xindi arc would be resolved after "The Expanse".
EVERYONE knew Picard would be rescued and returned to his normal self. Maybe not all, but most of the fans were unaware of any contract negotiation problems with Stewart. And even if I had known of the contract problems, Stewart was the breakout star; there is no way I would have believed he was done.

However, getting back on topic, what the Borg did to Picard and what Locutus did in Sector 001 was some pretty good evil.
 
Re: Most evil Star Trek Moment??????

I'm stil lconfused how stealing a warp coil or any of that is even remotely close to being responsible for a global genocide by withholding a cure that you had in hand.
 
Re: Most evil Star Trek Moment??????

EVERYONE knew Picard would be rescued and returned to his normal self. Maybe not all, but most of the fans were unaware of any contract negotiation problems with Stewart. And even if I had known of the contract problems, Stewart was the breakout star; there is no way I would have believed he was done.
You are assuming a great deal. I don't know how you could say everyone or most everyone knew he would be rescued. The way I remember it is a large part of the cliffhanger appeal and frustration that summer was learning not only how much carnage the Borg would wreak but the fate of Picard. If everyone knew he was going to be okay I don't think people would have been in such a hurry for the summer to end.
 
Re: Most evil Star Trek Moment??????

^ I think it was just a great cliffhanger ... which was my point with Azati Prime. Sure, things would get back to normal, but how?!

StarTrekWatcher, I would say you knew that Archer and the crew would be safe and how that would happen. I knew Picard and the crew would be safe and how that would happen. Doesn't mean the cliff hangers weren't good! I was really excited to see BoBW II and was probably just as hyped to see Damage.
 
Re: Most evil Star Trek Moment??????

^ I think it was just a great cliffhanger ...
Oh I agree. BoBW is the best cliffhanger, not just in Trek, but all of TV. There have been other great ones like Dallas' "Who Shot JR?" or Melrose Place's "It's not what you think it is worse" or Quantum Leap's "Shock Theatre" cliffhanger where after receiving shock treatment Sam and Al switch places or DS9's "Call to Arms" where the Defiant joined up with the massive Fed/Klingon fleet going to war with the Dominion and yes even "Azati Prime"'s cliffhanger with all hell breaking loose.
Sure, things would get back to normal, but how?!
I agree about this as well. Even though I knew how the Xindi story would play out I enjoyed seeing it unfold but BoBW was a show where I didn't know if things would return to normal let alone the "how". I might be the only one but I had zero idea how BoBW would play out.
I knew Picard and the crew would be safe and how that would happen.
You knew that the deflector would fail because the Borg assimilated Picard's knowledge, you knew Riker would kidnap Picard and use his link to bring down the Borg, you knew that assimilation could be reversed or that the destruction of the cube wouldn't kill Picard. I'm not sure I buy that.
 
Re: Most evil Star Trek Moment??????

:devil:
what was yours???
``The Communicator''. Archer kicks off a world war for no good reason, and seems to think this supremely avoidable fate was somehow beyond his power to avoid.
 
Re: Most evil Star Trek Moment??????

You knew that the deflector would fail because the Borg assimilated Picard's knowledge, you knew Riker would kidnap Picard and use his link to bring down the Borg, you knew that assimilation could be reversed or that the destruction of the cube wouldn't kill Picard. I'm not sure I buy that.

Pretty much - yeah. I have watched enough Star Trek to know everything has to be reversed in the end; everything turns out okay, back to normal. (When things don't - then I'm surprised.) I don't know if I had worked out details, but yeah, I knew Picard wouldn't be a Borg by the end. And I guessed - Riker being who he was - that he would find a way to rescue him with Shelby b/c they'd built up how they couldn't work together. (Why build up they can't work together unless they have to?) Doesn't mean there weren't twists I had no idea were coming or that it wasn't harrowing. I was on the edge of my seat.

Hey, I didn't know how Archer would get back to Enterprise in Damage. And I wasn't sure how Enterprise would get out of the attacks.

I don't know what to tell you. We figure out what we figure out.
 
Re: Most evil Star Trek Moment??????

You knew that the deflector would fail because the Borg assimilated Picard's knowledge, you knew Riker would kidnap Picard and use his link to bring down the Borg, you knew that assimilation could be reversed or that the destruction of the cube wouldn't kill Picard. I'm not sure I buy that.
And you knew Degra would flip, knew he would then be killed, knew that some of the Counsel members would still side with the humans, knew even, that Shran would swoop in and help save the day. Not sure I buy that.

There were no real surprises in BoBW II. Picard and his valiant crew save the day again. Riker learns that its okay to be an underacheiver. and Shelby learns that Riker maybe isn't a stiff of an officer afterall. Okay, well there was one surprise, Riker didn't attempt to nail Shelby.

Damage on the other hand offered a few surprises, well for me at least. Archer stealing the warp core, the reasons behind T'Pol's behavior, and the biggest surprise of all, the ship stayed jacked up throughout the rest of the season. One of the things I wondered about at the end of Azati-Prime was, how they'd repair the ship in the next couple of episodes. They didn't. That never happened on TNG . Keep in mind, I was completely unspoiled during all ot ENT's first 3 seasons.
 
Re: Most evil Star Trek Moment??????

And you knew Degra would flip, knew he would then be killed, knew that some of the Counsel members would still side with the humans, knew even, that Shran would swoop in and help save the day. Not sure I buy that.
"The Expanse" set up only one real course of action to resolve the threat. I didn't know all the details but the broad strokes were obvious. Given that a future faction was behind provoking the Xindi into attacking Earth and supposedly came from the 26th century it only stood to reason that Archer would need Daniels to take him to the future and provide proof otherwise. Then he would finally reach the council and present his case.

The Expanse was never heard of in later series and with the discovery of the sphere in Anomaly it stood to reason the spheres would be deactivated and the region would return to normal. Then in the early episodes as we saw how the Xindi had their internal struggles for dominance it only stood to reason that the Insects and Reptilians would be the ones who would see the weapon deployed until the end. Of course the weapon would be launched after Archer reaches out to the council.
There were no real surprises in BoBW II.
There were plenty of surprises--how the deflector dish failed in the teaser, the destruction of the fleet at Wolf 359, how the Borg cube was stopped, that Picard survived and was recovered, the sequence where Riker retrieves Picard, using Picard's link to turn it on the Collective.

But it is obvious you want to make a big deal out of it. I said I liked BoBW and the Xindi arc. They both have a lot I loved. I just thought BoBW was far more compelling and unpredictable than AP/Damage. You feel differently. Just agree to disagree.
 
Re: Most evil Star Trek Moment??????

The ones that have stayed with me:

Khan using mind controlling parasites to impose his will on others, ending with the Reliant captain vaporizing himself.

Watching Kirk's son be stabbed to death.

Tasha Yar's face momentarily appearing in that black puddle of hatred before being pulled back under.

Picard being tortured in Chain of Command.

Any episode featuring Lore and his insane hatred of humanoids.

Garak torturing Odo in The Die Is Cast.

Damar killing Ziyal.

The entire episode of In the Pale Moonlight.

Janeway torturing Equinox crewman in Equinox.

Archer stealing supplies from that ship in the Expanse, leaving them to limp home for the next couple of years.
 
Re: Most evil Star Trek Moment??????

Ack, sorry guys. Keep the topic on ENT's darkest moment (as most of you have) or this moves to General Trek. I'll change the title accordingly.
 
Re: Most evil Star Trek Moment??????

I didn't know all the details but the broad strokes were obvious.
Yes, the fact that both Picard and Archer would be rescued in their respective situations were obvious "broad strokes".
But it is obvious you want to make a big deal out of it. I said I liked BoBW and the Xindi arc. They both have a lot I loved. I just thought BoBW was far more compelling and unpredictable than AP/Damage. You feel differently. Just agree to disagree.
If disagreeing with you is making a "big deal" out of it, then so be it. As for the love of both BoBW II and AP/Damage, we agree (although I found Damage to be a much more compelling part II).

As for the agreeing to disagree about the other issues; we shall.
 
Re: Most evil Star Trek Moment??????

I'm stil lconfused how stealing a warp coil or any of that is even remotely close to being responsible for a global genocide by withholding a cure that you had in hand.


It was, IMHO, ENT's darkest moment because Archer is supposed to be the epitome of all good things human, captain of the first Warp 5 starship, and humanity's ambassador to the universe. He was also the star of the show. For him to do what he did to those people by stealing from them showed how far he had come and how much the Xindi threat had changed him. Bakula did a great job with it. One of the most dramatic moments in all of ENT, I think it is safe to say.
 
Re: Most evil Star Trek Moment??????

And yet stranding a few people by stealing that from them still doesn't compare to conciously withholding information from the people in Dear Doctor off of some theory the Doctor came up with after a couple of days of meeting them. Damage was supposed to be done out of despairation because they themselves were theatened. They had no such excuse to doom an entire species of advanced humanoids to extinction.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top