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most disappointing Trek movie?

most disappointing

  • TMP

    Votes: 11 5.5%
  • TFF

    Votes: 29 14.5%
  • GEN

    Votes: 24 12.0%
  • INS

    Votes: 19 9.5%
  • NEM

    Votes: 57 28.5%
  • STID

    Votes: 34 17.0%
  • BEY

    Votes: 8 4.0%
  • TWOK

    Votes: 6 3.0%
  • TSFS

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • TVH

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • TUC

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • FC

    Votes: 3 1.5%
  • ST09

    Votes: 7 3.5%

  • Total voters
    200
Its hard to top Into Darkness for me. While Trek had already started to burn out after Insurrection and DS9's conclusion (thus making Nemesis a high profile capstone of the franchise's eventual irrelevance in the aughts), STID was coming off a popular and momentous film. While I had plenty of issues with 09, I did recognize it was the kind of exciting film Trek needed to get back into the zeitgeist and I found myself hoping there would be a deeper and more character driven film to follow.

Star Trek 12 was just a complete mess though; a film that lacked even occasional charm of the previous outing and with a Kirk I fundamentally disliked (despite the fact that Pine in some ways is giving a stronger performance). Not only did it turn out fairly lousy it made all the flaws that I tried to look past in the 09 movie all the more glaring because they went either unaddressed or made worse. It killed a lot of the enthusiasm I had for cinematic Trek and it in combination with the marketing had me avoiding Beyond until it was on video.

It may not be the worst ST film, but it did so much damage it did to the potential that was there.

Defiantly agree. 09 had problems but it was just a gateway for them to set out the stall of the new thing they wanted to doand gave us a story to start that. ID was the chance to really take the new idea and run with it and instead we were given muck about Kahn, S31 and silly callbacks. I would have alot more respect for Kelvin if Beyond was the follow up
 
You're not, I found Spock's story in the movie "Into Darkness" quite compelling; he didn't understand why Kirk and his comrades would go to such extremes to save his life or cover protocol to save lives. Khan only cared about his superhumans and would take out a planet if he had to but not Spock, his inner conflict of understanding the human condition was the biggest problem for him. I was emotional during Kirk's death scene as Spock finally got it, its the best part of movie for me when he teared for his friend, the value of saving lives because all lives matter in Star Trek.
 
I cannot possibly be the only one who actually enjoyed Into Darkness....
Oh, you're not. I think it is a well done film, with the only misstep being Khan. But, that's it. The performances are great, Kirk's character arc is super fascinating for me and I love how Spock wrestles with these huge emotions while trying so desperately to hold on to logic.

ID also followed up on consequences from 09, which is always a huge plus for me. There are minor quibbles, but it is definitely a Trek film I revisit often.
 
I cannot possibly be the only one who actually enjoyed Into Darkness....

As I've said elsewhere "I enjoy AC/DC, but I never tell people that it's a great band."

There are elements of STID I enjoy, and elements that make me cringe, and sadly there are at least as many of the latter as there are of the former. When my friends who are not fans ask if they should watch it, I say that if it really wanted to riff on TWOK, which I consider the high water mark, it should have put in a lot more effort, an order of magnitude more. As things are, it comes off as a pale parody, hitting some of the beats without the motivation behind them.
 
As I've said elsewhere "I enjoy AC/DC, but I never tell people that it's a great band."

There are elements of STID I enjoy, and elements that make me cringe, and sadly there are at least as many of the latter as there are of the former. When my friends who are not fans ask if they should watch it, I say that if it really wanted to riff on TWOK, which I consider the high water mark, it should have put in a lot more effort, an order of magnitude more. As things are, it comes off as a pale parody, hitting some of the beats without the motivation behind them.
I find everything about STID that has nothing to do with TWOK really interesting, kind of like a big budget mash-up of Homefront/Paradise Lost and In the Pale Moonlight. I could see the Federation going a bit nuts after one of it's founding worlds being wiped out and the balance of power in the quadrant being shifted by Nero's attack.
 
As I've said elsewhere "I enjoy AC/DC, but I never tell people that it's a great band."

There are elements of STID I enjoy, and elements that make me cringe, and sadly there are at least as many of the latter as there are of the former. When my friends who are not fans ask if they should watch it, I say that if it really wanted to riff on TWOK, which I consider the high water mark, it should have put in a lot more effort, an order of magnitude more. As things are, it comes off as a pale parody, hitting some of the beats without the motivation behind them.
I mean, the moments of "pale parody" are extremely brief. So much so that I don't compare it to TWOK-it's its own thing, but obviously struggles because of the direct scene mirrors. But, the motivations are completely different if one can get past the lines.
 
The movie has nothing in comparison to TWOK nothing, and Khan was not the villain in the movie it was Admiral Marcus. Carol Marcus was not creating Genesis and didn't have a son, Khan was a victim of circumstance and the story was more in a reflection of 911 and its other politics, where some members are getting this Wrath of Khan rip-off didn't see the movie. The claim is utter bullshit.
 
The movie has nothing in comparison to TWOK nothing, and Khan was not the villain in the movie it was Admiral Marcus. Carol Marcus was not creating Genesis and didn't have a son, Khan was a victim of circumstance and the story was more in a reflection of 911 and its other politics, where some members are getting this Wrath of Khan rip-off didn't see the movie. The claim is utter bullshit.
They're getting it from the most surface level of details, i.e. Khan as a villain, and the reactor scene.

You're right it is BS, but getting past that knee-jerk reaction towards those elements has proven quite difficult over the years.
 
It has about as much in common with Wrath of Khan as it does with Search for Spock.

it had Kirk disobeying orders of the Starfleet Admiral. You actually had a fight with some Klingons (Search is the only other movie where that actually happened). Search is also the only other Trek movie to show Tribbles (showing they did in fact exist beyond TOS) so they also have that in common.
Hell, the Vengeance was basically the Excelsior. If Scotty didn't sabotage it before leaving spacedock, we literally would have seen the same thing happen. Excelsior outrun Enterprise and shoot it right out of its warp field.
Oh and hey, Scotty sabotaged the Vengeance as well
 
"The movie has nothing in comparison to TWOK nothing," then you go on to draw comparisons.

We saw the movie. Nobody said it's a remake. There are callbacks and that stupid reactor scene with Spock yelling. I laughed out loud.

And Khan does becomes a "villain,"* though the writers had a better movie if he stayed more ambiguous and allied with Kirk.

*Note the ridiculous fisticuffs between Khan and Spock on a flying car. That was the moment that turned me off to movies. The sound of fist hitting jaw was so loud, it hurt my ears. Click, went my brain. Action/superhero movies not for me anymore.
 
I don't think they're the same movie. I do, however, think that by including Khan, by making an issue of the call backs, and by having Spock sub 1 ask Spock Prime about Khan and having Spock explain him in such ominous terms, the movie itself invites the comparison.

Others have said that including Khan was the big mistake; I agree, but not in the way that I think they meant. Including Khan (and everything related to TWOK) was a big mistake because it's pretty much screaming to the audience "If you thought TWOK was good, take a look at what we have here!" A friend of mine talks about the contrast effect a lot, the difference between expectations and reality, and how it affects and colors our experiences. By inviting comparison between STID and TWOK, they're almost guaranteeing failure.

What they have is a perfectly serviceable action movie, but it never achieves the depth of TWOK.
 
The movie has nothing in comparison to TWOK nothing, and Khan was not the villain in the movie it was Admiral Marcus. Carol Marcus was not creating Genesis and didn't have a son, Khan was a victim of circumstance and the story was more in a reflection of 911 and its other politics, where some members are getting this Wrath of Khan rip-off didn't see the movie. The claim is utter bullshit.

ID isn't my favorite Star Trek movie by a fair shot...but I agree with this 100%

The plot and even the characters have virtually nothing in common with TWOK in terms of their behavior, motivations, etc.

It has Khan (who acts noting like his TWOK namesake). It has Carol Marcus (who has virtually NO connection to the TWOK counterpart). It has an "homage" scene that reverses Kirk's and Spock's roles in saving the ship from a warp drive shutdown.

That's basically it...so calling it a "remake" is ridiculous. NEM was far more of a TWOK "remake" than ID.
 
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I don't think they're the same movie. I do, however, think that by including Khan, by making an issue of the call backs, and by having Spock sub 1 ask Spock Prime about Khan and having Spock explain him in such ominous terms, the movie itself invites the comparison.

Others have said that including Khan was the big mistake; I agree, but not in the way that I think they meant. Including Khan (and everything related to TWOK) was a big mistake because it's pretty much screaming to the audience "If you thought TWOK was good, take a look at what we have here!" A friend of mine talks about the contrast effect a lot, the difference between expectations and reality, and how it affects and colors our experiences. By inviting comparison between STID and TWOK, they're almost guaranteeing failure.

What they have is a perfectly serviceable action movie, but it never achieves the depth of TWOK.
To my mind, yes the film invites the comparison, sadly. But, as others have noted, the elements are not really there that make it a fair comparison. And, Trek fans have been doing this stupid comparison thing since TWOK and films continue to try and stack against it.

It's a fools errand. Treating ID as its own thing is the only way to be fair, to my mind. TWOK is not the golden standard of Trek and I think Trek films can only improve if they can learn to stop this stupid comparison game.

No, ID and TWOK are not the same animals-not by a long shot. They just both happen to have hair.
There are callbacks and that stupid reactor scene with Spock yelling. I laughed out loud.
So maybe two minutes of callbacks means the whole movie is a callback? I struggle with this logic. It's very frustrating because I think it deprives people of an actual enjoyable experience.

Mileage, etc.
 
So maybe two minutes of callbacks means the whole movie is a callback?
Mileage, etc.

By saying that having Khan in the movie helps it to invite comparison, that implies that every moment with Khan is a moment that invites comparison on some level. On top of that, having Carol Marcus, who only appeared in one Trek film (and I don't think which other film she appeared in is a coincidence) serves the same function.

Nonetheless, I agree you your other statements in some sense. I would phrase it as "It doesn't need to be a competition," since that implies a determination of which is "better", and I don't think we'll (fans) ever achieve consensus there. A comparison, on the other hand, is a perfectly natural thing. After all, we compare (and frequently) TWOK and TMP, and to my eye those are the films which are most unalike.
 
I don't think they're the same movie. I do, however, think that by including Khan, by making an issue of the call backs, and by having Spock sub 1 ask Spock Prime about Khan and having Spock explain him in such ominous terms, the movie itself invites the comparison.

Others have said that including Khan was the big mistake; I agree, but not in the way that I think they meant. Including Khan (and everything related to TWOK) was a big mistake because it's pretty much screaming to the audience "If you thought TWOK was good, take a look at what we have here!" A friend of mine talks about the contrast effect a lot, the difference between expectations and reality, and how it affects and colors our experiences. By inviting comparison between STID and TWOK, they're almost guaranteeing failure.

What they have is a perfectly serviceable action movie, but it never achieves the depth of TWOK.


There are a lot of things I enjoyed about STID. First it addresses some of the frequent criticisms I saw of Star Trek (2009), particularly the rapid fire promotions. And some of the set design issues. And JJ Abrams exercised a bit more restraint on the lens flares (as much as I enjoyed Star Trek [2009] the lens flares were way over the top and frankly that with the documentary style camera work I left with a serious headache). He was much more judicious here. STID looked like more professional. I also loved the Section 31 angle and Admiral Marcus (who reminded me a bit of his 'alter ego' on Enterprise who was equally good).

But the whole Khan angle really pulled me out of the story. And a shame too because Cumberbatch did an otherwise good job--I really wish he was 'John Harrison'. But by bringing in Khan to the movie, fair or not, it was going to inevitably be compared to TWOK--for many fans the high water mark of the movies. Now no matter what they did it was going to be compared to TWOK. It's not a remake, other than a few lifted scenes. That is true. But comparisons don't just occur between remakes. Comparisons are frequently made between sequels and movies that reuse the same character, even in different stories. So I actually don't think it's unfair personally to compare it to TWOK.

And the melodramatic scene when he reveals his true self--"My name is ....Khan" did elicit an eye roll from me. My first reaction was "I knew it" because the more Bob Orci and co. denied it was Khan the more I believe it was going to be Khan. And just disbelief. I couldn't believe they actually went and did it.

And yes, the reactor scene, then Spock yelling "Khan" caused another eye roll for me. It looked like a blatant attempt by TWOK fans to be cute to me. "Oooh, let's redo the final scene from TWOK, but reverse the characters and have Spock scream Khan instead.....that would be so COOOOL!"--but it wasn't, IMHO.

In fact, the scene cuts away so fast to the Vengeance roaring into the atmosphere just as Spock screams it that I always wondered if Abrams himself thought it was a bit over the top and he just wanted to cut away to the next scene ASAP.

And don't even get me started with the magic blood thing. WTF was that? Seriously? It was like they knew they couldn't really kill Captain Kirk and they hit a mind block and someone blurted out "MAGIC BLOOD, Khan has magic blood".

But there are other things I liked. Leave Cumberbatch as John Harrison, rework the Kirk death scene and find a better way to resurrect him (or I suppose if there was no Khan then maybe magic blood could still work--a bit dopey but at least it wasn't some characteristic the character never had before since it'd be a new character). Then the rest of the film works pretty well I think.
 
And don't even get me started with the magic blood thing. WTF was that?
A blood based therapy designed to heal damaged cells in a rapid way based upon McCoy's line from "Space Seed"; "There's something about him that refuses to die" (quote may be accurate but the intent is there). I mean, blood doping is a thing.

This is something that just gets under my skin. "Magic blood" is the least magical thing in Trek.
 
A blood based therapy designed to heal damaged cells in a rapid way based upon McCoy's line from "Space Seed"; "There's something about him that refuses to die" (quote may be accurate but the intent is there). I mean, blood doping is a thing.

This is something that just gets under my skin. "Magic blood" is the least magical thing in Trek.


But then why didn't he use his magic blood to rejuvenate his beloved wife before TWOK? Their cargo carriers had equipment, I'm sure he could have fashioned an IV to transfer some of his blood into his wife.

It really seemed to me that they got stumped over how to bring back Kirk and they just stumbled on this idea. And why not just take blood from one of the other Supermen/Augments? Why did Uhura have to go down to prevent Spock from taking out Khan. You have about 70 to choose from.
 
But then why didn't he use his magic blood to rejuvenate his beloved wife before TWOK? Their cargo carriers had equipment, I'm sure he could have fashioned an IV to transfer some of his blood into his wife.
Who is to say he didn't? Perhaps a separation of platelets or plasma to prevent rejection was needed.
It really seemed to me that they got stumped over how to bring back Kirk and they just stumbled on this idea. And why not just take blood from one of the other Supermen/Augments? Why did Uhura have to go down to prevent Spock from taking out Khan. You have about 70 to choose from.
Who is to say the augments would have the same abilities?

To be fair, I don't think its clear enough in the film. But I loathe the "magic blood" moniker because it ignores real world applications, while embracing other magic tech.
 
"So maybe two minutes of callbacks means the whole movie is a callback? I struggle with this logic."

Me too.

WHO said "the whole movie is callback?" Seriously, I think you're creating a straw man. I specifically said it's not a remake.

BUT . . . there are callbacks. And they intruded on me. And, yes, Khan becomes a villain.

How do you get someone calling the whole movie a callback from that? Read what is stated, not what you project onto someone. I actually think I like this the best of all the JJ because of Kirk's reticence to just follow orders and kill. And the ambiguity of Khan/Harrison for awhile. Then it gets mustache-twirly. IMHO
 
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