Totally agree. Such a STELLAR build up to all that and then...WTF?!?!
Most disappointing ending to an episode
- Thread starter erastus25
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Totally agree. Such a STELLAR build up to all that and then...WTF?!?!
To be fair, a couple of times TNG actually did follow-up episodes after Picard went through something particularly overwhelming.
I'm going to have to add my voice to those mentioning Sacrifice of Angels. All things considered, it was an excellent episode, but after building up all that tension and excitement, the Prophets' intervention at the end felt like a bit of a letdown.
Absolutely. That episode is so horribly lame, it makes me want to feed it its parents.
Also agree with "Sacrefice of angels"...when the mine field exploded it was like OHNO! and then, just like that, the Prophets make the whole fleet dissapear and thats that.
And also "What you leave behind"... when they had to kill Damar off I would have expected some scene, a small one at least, at the very end, that shows his important part in ending the war. But no... he is just dead and forgotten. While I loved his story arc (besides his death or at least the time of his death) I was really disspointed in this unfinished ending.
TerokNor
And also "What you leave behind"... when they had to kill Damar off I would have expected some scene, a small one at least, at the very end, that shows his important part in ending the war. But no... he is just dead and forgotten. While I loved his story arc (besides his death or at least the time of his death) I was really disspointed in this unfinished ending.
TerokNor
I actually liked his death. I thought it was intended to remind us that while he did help out at the end he did some terrible things while assisting Dukat. Could also be a reminder that history may often forgot many who were instrumental in the ending of violence.
Definitely WYLB. There are a multitude of problems with the rushed ending, such as:
- Sisko abandoning his family for no reason
- Quark's character getting royally screwed-over with nothing
- The Founder agreeing to surrender a few minutes after she said she would fight to the last man. I don't buy the counter-argument to this that "she had to surrender to save her people," because an in-character Odo would be obliged by his sense of justice to end the genocide even if she didn't surrender.
- The Dominion losing instantly just because Cardassia rebels, even though IIRC in an earlier episode it was projected that even with a Cardassian rebellion and Romulans in the war, the Feds are still screwed.
- Odo abandoning Kira for no reason (yes he has to cure TGL, but that can be done in two seconds; there's no reason for him to leave the station for more than a week).
- Dukat/Winn nonsense, 'nuff said
I also agree about the deus ex machina cop-out on Sacrifice of the Angels. That Sisko never even paid the described penance for that, ever, in the series, just adds insult to injury.
In addition, another problem with the ending is that Ziyal was not a compelling or vital character (she was played by 3 different actresses for crying out loud), hence her sacrifice means little. They should have sacrificed a real character for the ending and episode title to have any meaning. Sacrificing Jake as the penance would have been sufficient.
- Sisko abandoning his family for no reason
- Quark's character getting royally screwed-over with nothing
- The Founder agreeing to surrender a few minutes after she said she would fight to the last man. I don't buy the counter-argument to this that "she had to surrender to save her people," because an in-character Odo would be obliged by his sense of justice to end the genocide even if she didn't surrender.
- The Dominion losing instantly just because Cardassia rebels, even though IIRC in an earlier episode it was projected that even with a Cardassian rebellion and Romulans in the war, the Feds are still screwed.
- Odo abandoning Kira for no reason (yes he has to cure TGL, but that can be done in two seconds; there's no reason for him to leave the station for more than a week).
- Dukat/Winn nonsense, 'nuff said
I also agree about the deus ex machina cop-out on Sacrifice of the Angels. That Sisko never even paid the described penance for that, ever, in the series, just adds insult to injury.
In addition, another problem with the ending is that Ziyal was not a compelling or vital character (she was played by 3 different actresses for crying out loud), hence her sacrifice means little. They should have sacrificed a real character for the ending and episode title to have any meaning. Sacrificing Jake as the penance would have been sufficient.
I feel like at least it would've been full circle if Q did bail our heroes from the Borg there, seeing as he's the one who introduced them (FC-ENT blah-blah whatevs). The Prophet deus ex machina, however, is pretty bad. Much moreso when the one sees it as the conclusion not just of Sacrifice of Angels, but also of the previous 5 episodes as well.
I completely forgot about Sacrifice of Angels. I hate that episode's end. Lamest cop-out ever. Weak. Really, really weak. Stupid deux ex machina. 
So how would you guys end SoA? Have Rom prevent the minefield from being destroyed? Have Sisko take on 1,000 Dominion ships with only the Defiant? Have the Dominion conquer the galaxy?
I didn't like the ending when I first saw it, but that's because I was 12 and wanted there to be an epic space battle (in spite of the fact that there just had been an epic space battle). Over time, I have come to appreciate the ending to SoA as not only something that defied expectations, but it is also the only point when the two major arcs of the show (the Dominion and the Prophets) intersect. I think it's neat, but then again, I am the sort of person that uses the word "neat" in a non-ironic way.
I didn't like the ending when I first saw it, but that's because I was 12 and wanted there to be an epic space battle (in spite of the fact that there just had been an epic space battle). Over time, I have come to appreciate the ending to SoA as not only something that defied expectations, but it is also the only point when the two major arcs of the show (the Dominion and the Prophets) intersect. I think it's neat, but then again, I am the sort of person that uses the word "neat" in a non-ironic way.
The ending is perfect. There were many more pedestrian ways to end the threat (Kira and Rom preventing the destruction of the minefield, as just one obvious example) but none that could be even remotely as meaningful in the context of the overall story.
The use of the term "Deus ex machina" is also inappropriate here because the Prophets are characters in the unfolding DS9 story, have been from the beginning, and are in fact responsible for building the wormhole that allows the Dominion to threaten the alpha quadrant. Sisko is just asking them to clean up their own mess in SoA. The Prophets already are involved, whether they like it or not. Either they stop the reinforcements, or they let them through.
There are a lot of other reasons why it is the best possible ending, but that is a decent beginning
I have a couple of quibbles with SoA, but the intervention of the Prophets is certainly not one of them.
Maybe. It's not really about what the ending is so much as the execution. I'm not a writer and I'm not going to go around pitching story ideas, but when I watch a dramatic programme, I want the story to be resolved in a satisfying fashion. Obviously people will disagree over what counts as a satisfying resolution, but for me, having the Prophets, who up to this moment hadn't been involved in this storyline at all, suddenly save the day, felt underwhelming. Maybe it's a problem of the story arc as a whole rather than just the one episode, but the effect is what it is.
Is it a big problem? Not really - it's only one episode, which I mostly liked anyway and it didn't ruin the rest of the series.
They have been involved: they built the wormhole that the Dominion has been using to bring reinforcements into the alpha quadrant. And the ending is foreshadowed explicitly with the Emissary studying the words of the Prophets "on the eve of battle" in Favor the Bold.
A more techy-type solution was doubtless the more predictable choice, but certainly not a better one from a thematic standpoint. When Sisko affirms that he will return "to this place where he belongs" in A Call to Arms, he is standing in front of the Bajoran shrine, and his gradual acceptance of the role of Emissary is a major theme of the preceding seasons, notably of the so-called Emissary trilogy. This is the culmination of that.
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For me, this is too far removed from this story arc. Yes, it happened in Deep Space Nine, but this show had been on the air for five years by this point! The Prophets weren't actors in this particular drama. And who blames the Prophets for building the wormhole anyway? If the Dominion weren't terrorising our heroes they'd be terrorising someone else - it's all equal!
I'm not saying it's stupid or makes no sense, but I am saying that to me the ending didn't feel like it grew organically out of the rest of the story.
I don't see what you mean by the above.
As for the point about the Prophets not being involved in this particular drama, I can't concur because "this particular drama" is the whole unfolding story of DS9. It's true that a viewer who just tuned in for SoA might not understand the Prophets' role, but then they wouldn't understand any of it. That is the risk you take with this type of creative choice that takes into account character material and plot points from earlier episodes and seasons.
I might buy into the idea that the ending could have been more strongly foreshadowed (though even here there are some very clear signs in FtB), but anyway that is more like a quibble.
I've heard the argument before that because the prophets are connected with DS9's overall story arc, so it's not a true deus ex machina cop-out.
But as I made the analogy to Q, since he's a character that's part of that show's mythology and story, does that mean that it would've been OK for him to come to the rescue in any major crisis since his powers and character had been established before?
If in "Descent," upon being captured by Lore, Picard had raised his hands and begged for Q's intervention, and he'd come along to save them, would you be arguing "well, how would you have ended it? Q is a recurring character with God-like powers, why not make use of him?"
You can't say the prophets "had a hand" in the Dominion War just because they made the wormhole. By that logic so did Zefram Cochrane for inventing warp drive, else Earth wouldn't have been part of the Federation. The Dominion and the Founders' aims of conquest had squat to do with the prophets.
It's the difference between a good dramatic resolution and a bad one. Main characters relying on divine intervention to resolve a crisis is bad writing even if in this case the "Gods" were actually a part of the show's background.
But as I made the analogy to Q, since he's a character that's part of that show's mythology and story, does that mean that it would've been OK for him to come to the rescue in any major crisis since his powers and character had been established before?
If in "Descent," upon being captured by Lore, Picard had raised his hands and begged for Q's intervention, and he'd come along to save them, would you be arguing "well, how would you have ended it? Q is a recurring character with God-like powers, why not make use of him?"
You can't say the prophets "had a hand" in the Dominion War just because they made the wormhole. By that logic so did Zefram Cochrane for inventing warp drive, else Earth wouldn't have been part of the Federation. The Dominion and the Founders' aims of conquest had squat to do with the prophets.
It's the difference between a good dramatic resolution and a bad one. Main characters relying on divine intervention to resolve a crisis is bad writing even if in this case the "Gods" were actually a part of the show's background.
It works fine in whatever Q episode it is where the Borg are originally introduced. Q puts the Enterprise into the situation, so it makes sense that he resolve it, especially since it is a meaningful turn of events for one of the characters involved (Picard). Naturally, it wouldn't make sense for Q to keep showing up to help the Enterprise with the Borg, but within the context of that story, it makes dramatic sense.
SoA is similar, though it is taking place on a larger scale. The Prophets' intervention is an important part of Sisko's character arc, and because they are responsible for the Dominion's access to the alpha quadrant, it makes sense for them to restrict that access.
Obviously, the Prophets' influence should have its limits, but their influence is clearly defined and limited. The Federation still has to fight the war, they just don't have to fight it with unlimited reinforcements flooding into the alpha quadrant through the wormhole. If the Prophets magically brought the Romulans into the war or resolved the battle for the Chintoka system, or something of that nature, then you would have a stronger argument in my view.
The warp drive analogy is a poor one, because the Prophets are in fact currently responsible for reinforcements being able to enter the alpha quadrant (they are also technically responsible for the initial contact, but that is not the primary focus here, they are not being asked to undo what has previously been done, but to face up to what is currently transpiring). This is not something that happened in the distant past: it is happening now, and the Prophets have a choice to take responsibility, or not, just like any other character.
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See, I think that would have been a poor ending. Fiction is filled with stories where the heroes stop the bad guys with only a second to spare and I was expecting that to happen in this episode, so when that didn't happen and the minefield exploded in Sisko's face I was truly shocked. It went against the narrative imperative and for that reason watching the minefield come down is one of my favourite shots in the show.
I can understand the idea that it came from nowhere in the terms of the 6-episode arc, but I don't view DS9 that way, I see it as a series of layered stories. From that standpoint, the Prophets have been part of the series longer than the Dominion, and they warned Sisko about the impending war so that he could protect Bajor (Rapture). They had a stake in the events that were happening due to being "of Bajor", so for them not to have played any role during the war would have been unsatisfying for me.
What's more, they don't just destroy the Dominion fleet for free, they warn Sisko that this will mean he will find no rest on Bajor. Because of this action, Dukat goes mad and sides with the Pah-Wraiths, which leads to the confrontation in the Fire Caves where Sisko "dies" and does not get to live in his house on Bajor with Kasidy. (I know that's not the way most people see it, most people think that Sisko comes back after a few years, but that's the way I choose to see it as it makes the best story, and it's the way the writers originally envisaged it.)
If Lore's base was in the Q continuum, and if Q had previously warned Picard about the pending Lore/Borg threat, I would have little problem with that ending.
i.e people in the Gamma Quadrant. They haven't actually made things objectively worse, because if the Alpha Quadrant weren't accessible, the Dominion would just attack some neighbouring region.
Fair enough, but Sacrifice of Angels and the preceding six episodes do form one story within the longer storylines, much as individual episodes might. As I see it, though that story overall was very good, it stumbled in terms of drama at the very end - maybe the stakes got too high, I don't know, but it felt anticlimactic to me.
But it did! It just happened a different way.
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