Mortal Coil

[KelisThePoet]

There are so many stories about people with near-death experiences having some moment of spiritual revelation or clarity. I think it's entirely believable that a religious person primed to expect a spiritual near-death experience who didn't get one would be deeply disturbed.

 

[locutus101]

There are so many stories about people with near-death experiences having some moment of spiritual revelation or clarity. I think it's entirely believable that a religious person primed to expect a spiritual near-death experience who didn't get one would be deeply disturbed.

I don't know of any religious person who would take an absence of proof as a proof of absence, and definitely not so easily as Neelix did here. He wasn't doubting, he was certain that the things he believed in all his life were crap. As I said, unless he was bipolar before the incident and managed to hid it from every one, this is absolutely unbelievable.

 

[KelisThePoet]

First of all, I've known people who've gone into and out of religion for all kinds of reasons.

The issue is what Neelix believes. If Neelix has always believed (even taken for granted) that he will have a spiritual near-death experience, should he ever have a near-death experience at all, then the absence of that experience is faith shattering to him. Someone else who believes in something else can say that Neelix shouldn't have believed he'd have the experience or that he'd understand the experience, that Neelix isn't very religious at all if his religion is predicated on something like that. It doesn't matter to Neelix.

 

[locutus101]

First of all, I've known people who've gone into and out of religion for all kinds of reasons.

The issue is what Neelix believes. If Neelix has always believed (even taken for granted) that he will have a spiritual near-death experience, should he ever have a near-death experience at all, then the absence of that experience is faith shattering to him. Someone else who believes in something else can say that Neelix shouldn't have believed he'd have the experience or that he'd understand the experience, that Neelix isn't very religious at all if his religion is predicated on something like that. It doesn't matter to Neelix.

When he didn't remember the after life the clone of Kahless assumed that someone in this world couldn't have any memory of the other world. It would have been normal for Neelix to at least make that kind of assumption before jumping to the conclusion that his lifetime belief was doodoo. It's not natural for someone to reject so radically his old faith without trying to clutch at its straws.

 

[KelisThePoet]

Religion is about belief. In our world (and apparently throughout much of the Star Trek galaxy) it's often about individual belief. Even among two members of the same religion, what constitutes a normal or natural facet of belief is often up for dispute (or at least discussion). Yet you're trying to argue that Neelix's personal belief patterns aren't normal or natural based on the evidence of what a cloned Klingon does.

 

[Voth commando1]

This was a good episode and superior in its loyalty to humanism then DS9 Durr prophets fare-yeah if your religious and have a NDE and experience nothing than yeah it's going to be shattering.

Come to think of it DS9 would have been awesome if it was revealed the prophets weren't gods just super aliens, aliens that didn't particularly care about Bajor or the morals of bajorans at all-would have loved to have seen Kira locking herself up and crying "they don't love us why oh why" that would have been so awesome

 

[jmidnight_99]

I wouldn't call Seven a recurring character, she was part of the main cast at this time. But you're right. Especially Joe Carey comes to mind who she could have saved.

He or she obviously meant a character that reoccurs every episode. Bringing people back fro the dead is a strange skill to give a regular cast member. I agree.

 

[jmidnight_99]

The definition of death is when you can't bring someone back to life. As long as there is a means to revive him, he can't be pronounced dead, that's as simple as that. Neelix was never dead.

How do you "bring someone back to life" if they are not dead? What a contradiction. In order to "bring someone back to life" that someone must be dead in the first place.

Neelix wasn't "revived" which is what i think you mean. His physical death was reversed by repairing every dead cell in his body. After 19 hours of no oxygen, I doubt it if many or any of his cells were still alive.

 

[Farscape One]

Wasn't Neelix supposed to be getting new nanoprobes every so often for the rest of his life?

 

[Tracy Trek]

Wasn't Neelix supposed to be getting new nanoprobes every so often for the rest of his life?

I believe at the end of the episode that it was said he would most likely have to. Does anyone know for sure? Which begs the question. What was he supposed to do when he stayed with the Talaxian colony and the only source of nanoprobes (Seven or maybe Icheb as well) were going in the other direction.

 

[Sophie74656]

It said he may have to live with it forever. I just assumed he didn't

 

[Farscape One]

I always took it as another thing never followed up on this series.

 

[Voth commando1]

Maybe by that point he no longer needed them or some sort of arrangement to produce them was made.

 

[at Quark's]

Perhaps the ultimate postmodernistic episode.

What do you do when your religious beliefs are taken from you by a violent experience you didn't ask for ?

Neelix learns to accept that no matter what his religious beliefs (or lack thereof)-- he's here, now, today. And that while he is here, perhaps he simply should strive to make the best of it, regardless of whether there is anything waiting for him after his death --or not. In the end- it doesn't really matter what he thinks of the afterlife, if there's any "reward" or not ; all that really counts is what he makes of his current life, for himself and for the people around him that he loves and that love him. Which is, in my opinion, ultimately a very spiritual message, even though perhaps it doesn't look so at first sight.

 

[Refuge]

Neelix experiencing his vision quest was like a bad dream for him. I choose to believe that in the final scene with Naomi when she wonders if a monster had got to Neelix and he said he chased the monster away, he was referring to his doubts. He needed to confront his worth that he was important to his ship mates. The ship mates in his vision were not true to form, they were a monster version. His beloved sister was not true to form. In my opinion his vision was not true to 'form' of his spiritual belief of the after life either.

Yes his life had value and yes he was needed in the here and now, that is what made him stay.

Chakotay said vision quests were to be interpreted but the mere existence of a vision quest is something one would have to consider as spiritual in nature anyway. Neelix.. be it as a message or affect from the Vision quest had this crisis of existence and faith. He wanted to die, but it wasn't his time. Maybe that was the message he needed to find.

 

[Tracy Trek]

Well said, Refuge, well said.

I've wondered if maybe it could be interpreted that Neelix might have suffered some kind of survivor's guilt. And that could have affected his vision quest. He was the only person in his family to survive because he was off planet at the time.

 

[Refuge]

Poor Neelix he did have survivor guilt, I guess being revived in this episode played on it too. He was a natural nurturer always wanting to look after his loved ones. It's no wonder he settled on that outpost.

 

[Prax]

There's two things that I'm a little baffled no one has mentioned, including myself.

1: The reason Neelix is so upset has to do with the tragic loss of his family. Especially his cherished sister. He wants them to be in paradise, since they suffered so greatly on earth(Talaxia?) He also wants to see them again.

2. In season 6, in the episode Barge of the Dead, B'elanna seems to actually experience some sort of afterlife. And it's not something she actively believed in before the incident. And FWiW, both Mortal Coil, and Barge of the Dead were written by Bryan Fuller.

 

[Farscape One]

Well, Bryan Fuller did the teleplay for "BARGE OF THE DEAD". Ronald D. Moore did the story.

 

[Scotchy]

One of my favorite episodes. I especially liked Neelix's reaction when his afterlife was disproved. The only thing I would have added might have been some lines from Seven ridiculing Neelix for being superstitious.