More Theories-Spoilers up to Under the Sea

[Trippy]

Ready, set, theorize!

Ok, a few things:

-Jacob and brother's other 'mother': was she Eve? ("I was brought here too i.e. when cast out of paradise?)
-Did she then become the smoke monster (and able to kill all the original 'others'?)
-Jacob (light imagery) and brother (dark imagery): if our losties are candidates for their replacements, our main guys are Sawyer (blonde) and Jack (dark)...hmmmm...
-The cave of light-where is it exactly? Is it this that Desmond was tasked to controlling?
-The donkey wheel that brother was installing-who finished his work?
-So Jacob was a dufus who, over the next thousand years or so became the wise 'man' who was on the island with the losties and the current 'others'
-So brother was a good kid/adult who since has gone insane without a body to live in.
-How will this affect our losties who are left?!

Ready, set, theorize!

 

[RoJoHen]

Under the Sea, huh? I didn't realize the Little Mermaid was going to make a guest appearance!

 

[Trippy]

Oops!

 

[RoJoHen]

I definitely want to know where this Light Cave is on the Island in the present day. Does the Light move? Was the Temple built around it? The (A?) Donkey wheel is at the bottom of a well. Is this the same Donkey Wheel underneath the Orchid, or are there many? I believe NotLocke said earlier this season that there were several wells all over the Island. Is it possible that MiB's unfinished Donkey Wheel wasn't the only one? I have a feeling Jacob finished building the Donkey Wheel. How else would he have known to move the Island back in Season 4?

 

[RoJoHen]

I wish people hadn't had babies on the Island in the 70s. I was coming up with a theory that Smokey was preventing babies from being born so that nobody on the Island could be considered innocent.

 

[Servo]

-Jacob (light imagery) and brother (dark imagery): if our losties are candidates for their replacements, our main guys are Sawyer (blonde) and Jack (dark)...hmmmm...

Brother already has his candidate - Locke. Jack will be Jacob's replacement (IMO).

The one thing that was a big overriding arc across a lot of the series was the two different stances taken by Jack and Locke - the man of science, against the man of faith.
Now, Jack has become the man of faith, and has accepted that he has a destiny and a purpose on the island.

I'm convinced that the final scene of the show, will be Jack and Smokey (still looking like Locke) sat on the beach, echoing the original Smokey/Jacob scene, with Smokey saying he'd find a way to kill Jack and try to leave all over again.

-The donkey wheel that brother was installing-who finished his work?

He probably did. With the help of more people who came to the island. He had long enough.

-So Jacob was a dufus who, over the next thousand years or so became the wise 'man' who was on the island with the losties and the current 'others'

Pretty much.

-So brother was a good kid/adult who since has gone insane without a body to live in.

Not necessarily. I'm thinking that when he went into the light, the hatred and fear that was in him (due to his recent experiences) was somehow used to corrupt his soul or whatever, and turned him into the smoke monster. Maybe the light "gave life" to the darkness within him.
The "small amount of light" that his mother said was in every man, represents the innocent soul we're all born with. It can be corrupted, but in a man, that just creates an evil man, with no more power than a good man. However, at the light's source, maybe that corruption can be amplified, to create something seemingly supernatural, like the smoke monster.

Does that make sense?

 

[RoJoHen]

Brother already has his candidate - Locke.

This makes little sense to me. Smokey, in the past, has been able to take the form of many dead people. Why would a dead Locke suddenly be his candidate? The only reason he needed Locke dead was so that he could get the other candidates back to the Island.

I don't think Smokey needs a candidate at all. The Candidates are people who can potentially be the Island's protector. Smokey was never the Island's protector; he's simply trapped.

 

[Servo]

Brother already has his candidate - Locke.

This makes little sense to me. Smokey, in the past, has been able to take the form of many dead people. Why would a dead Locke suddenly be his candidate? The only reason he needed Locke dead was so that he could get the other candidates back to the Island.

I don't think Smokey needs a candidate at all. The Candidates are people who can potentially be the Island's protector. Smokey was never the Island's protector; he's simply trapped.

Ok, maybe I should have put candidate in quotation marks, since I really just used it as shorthand to describe how he needed Locke to make his plan work, and took his form. He used what everyone else saw Locke as to his own advantage. So in essence, he corrupted what Locke was. And I'll bet that the reason some of the candidates names are crossed out, is because Smokey corrupted them somehow.

 

[RoJoHen]

Ooh, very likely.

 

[Corran Horn]

I figure Jacob's not-mother was a smoke monster. She appeared to the MiB in the form of his mother to get the Jacob/MiB antagonism going on. She had to be a smoke monster (in my opinion) to rain hell down on those other survivors. Also, MiB stabbed her w/o having her speak first, and that's why MiB could kill her. (and why Sayid could NOT kill Flocke...Dogen specifically told Sayid to not let him speak)

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I'm really corn-fused about Smokey now! If MIB (why won't they tell us his name! it's kinda rude ) is dead, or his body is dead, did Smokey steal his soul in order to mimic him? Did his soul merge with something in the waterfall to cause Smokey to come into being? Is MIB even still in the picture, body or soul? Did Smokey exist as an entity before MIB came along to disturb his repose? I like the idea that Smokey is the evil counterpart of the glorious golden light - two mystical forms of "energy" that exist on the island for frak knows what reason. Who was Allison Janney playing - was she a mere mortal, or an insane goddess or what? When was this happening, time-wise? 200 years ago or 2000?

This show needs another five or ten seasons to clear up all these issues! GAAAAAHHH!!!

She had to be a smoke monster (in my opinion) to rain hell down on those other survivors.

I agree. But then what does that mean? Are the Smoke Monsters natural beings who exist on the island or are they somehow generated by the 'fear/hatred/anger' of humans they run across?

 

[Servo]

I'm really corn-fused about Smokey now! If MIB (why won't they tell us his name! it's kinda rude ) is dead, or his body is dead, did Smokey steal his soul in order to mimic him? Did his soul merge with something in the waterfall to cause Smokey to come into being? Is MIB even still in the picture, body or soul? Did Smokey exist as an entity before MIB came along to disturb his repose? I like the idea that Smokey is the evil counterpart of the glorious golden light - two mystical forms of "energy" that exist on the island for frak knows what reason. Who was Allison Janney playing - was she a mere mortal, or an insane goddess or what? When was this happening, time-wise? 200 years ago or 2000?

I think it is still MiB, just corrupted into Smokey. Kinda like how Vader is still Anakin, just corrupted over to the dark side.
Because he wasn't innocent - he was filled with anger and hatred because he had been lied to, and betrayed, by his mother, whom he subsequently murdered - the power of the light manifested that negativity and turned him into Smokey.

As for Jacob, he was innocent. And I'm willing to bet that the stuff he drank was made from that light somehow, or maybe made from the water that had been in contact with the light. When he drank it, it turned him into something sort of like the good version of Smokey, giving him the required ability to protect the island.

 

[zengoth]

So, there's a family of smoke monsters? (more than 1). If OtherMother was a smoke monster and another one was "barfed up" (to quote Doc Jansen on EW.com) when Brother in Black floated in - does that mean 2?

Are the waters of the light cave the same as the healing spa waters in the temple? (that supposedly saved Ben's life)?

Since there's a skeleton for Brother in Black, I will assume Smoke Monster took on Brother in Black's form just to mess with Jacob's head. (Even though I thought one brother couldn't kill another brother...)

Where does this knowledge, supposedly passed on, come from. OtherMother didn't tell Jacob much before she died. The 21st Century Others got their info from Richard and Jacob, but Jacob must've figured out a lot for himself or he's been listening to Smoke Monster for so many centuries, he's making it all up.

No answers about cabins or lists or lighthouses in this last episode left me less than enthused.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Because he wasn't innocent - he was filled with anger and hatred because he had been lied to, and betrayed, by his mother, whom he subsequently murdered - the power of the light manifested that negativity and turned him into Smokey.

That's way too loose a definition of "evil" - by that definition, practically everyone is evil! Push them too far and they hit back.

As for Jacob, he was innocent.

The main difference between the brothers appears to me to be that MIB was smart enough to be angry, and Jacob was too stupid to understand what was happening. He wandered around with a rather bovine look on his face.

However, since then, he's become far more manipulative and callous. I guess experience will do that to ya.

 

[Hunter X]

I have a feeling Jacob finished building the Donkey Wheel. How else would he have known to move the Island back in Season 4?

Though it was Christian, in the cabin with Claire, who told Locke to move the Island. So while anyone could've finished the donkey wheel, including the Man in Black since he clearly has physical form in spite of taking on someone else's body, or Jacob, it wasn't Jacob who said to turn the wheel back in season 4.

I'm convinced that the final scene of the show, will be Jack and Smokey (still looking like Locke) sat on the beach, echoing the original Smokey/Jacob scene, with Smokey saying he'd find a way to kill Jack and try to leave all over again.

I've seen this theorized a lot, and I just don't think it'll happen. For one thing, it's the most commonly predicted final scene. One thing Lost is not is predictable. Sure, it has its moments where you can tell an episode is headed (the last one was pretty well telegraphed all the way through), but the overall arc of the show has proven to be pretty much impossible to predict.

I also just don't like the idea of this scene. For one thing, it doesn't change the story enough. It just resets everything to how its been for the past however many centuries. I want to see the Oceanic Survivors change the status quo, not merely return it to the way it's always been. I think the fact that no one really knows what the light is, not even Jacob, indicates that the finale will actually be the survivors not doing what Jacob or the Man in Black tell them to do. I think that they'll discover what the light really is, and everyone will have been wrong. There will be no candidates in the end. No protector. Something new will be created.

The CrazyMom in the last episode saying that the light is the source of life, death and rebirth, especially that last one, tells me that it has something to do with the flash-sideways.

Of course, I'm starting to make predictions, so I doubt I'm right either.

Since there's a skeleton for Brother in Black, I will assume Smoke Monster took on Brother in Black's form just to mess with Jacob's head. (Even though I thought one brother couldn't kill another brother...)

I don't really understand why the Man in Black's body being found in the river means that the Smoke Monster isn't him. He has said this season that Jacob stole his body, which we saw pretty clearly in this episode. Throwing the Man in Black into the light ripped his soul from his body, creating the Smoke Monster. The fact a body was left behind doesn't mean it's not him.

Whether or not anyone here believes in souls doesn't mean they haven't been clearly shown to exist in Lost's world. Ghosts appear on the Island; the whispers are those who can't "move on." Libby has appeared as a ghost to Michael, but her body is buried somewhere on the Island. The internal rules of the show most clearly indicate that the Smoke Monster really is the Man in Black, but in some uber-ghost form as a result of being thrown into the light.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Throwing the Man in Black into the light ripped his soul from his body, creating the Smoke Monster. The fact a body was left behind doesn't mean it's not him.

Yeah, I immediately figured Smokey was:

1. MIB's soul plus something "bad" from down there.

2. The bad thing that got woken up, no MIB included. Smokey decides to mimic MIB because, hey, not too many people to mimic on that island...

But we don't know which it is, really.

 

[Trippy]

I have a feeling Jacob finished building the Donkey Wheel. How else would he have known to move the Island back in Season 4?

Though it was Christian, in the cabin with Claire, who told Locke to move the Island. So while anyone could've finished the donkey wheel, including the Man in Black since he clearly has physical form in spite of taking on someone else's body, or Jacob, it wasn't Jacob who said to turn the wheel back in season 4.

I've seen this theorized a lot, and I just don't think it'll happen. For one thing, it's the most commonly predicted final scene. One thing Lost is not is predictable. Sure, it has its moments where you can tell an episode is headed (the last one was pretty well telegraphed all the way through), but the overall arc of the show has proven to be pretty much impossible to predict.

I also just don't like the idea of this scene. For one thing, it doesn't change the story enough. It just resets everything to how its been for the past however many centuries. I want to see the Oceanic Survivors change the status quo, not merely return it to the way it's always been. I think the fact that no one really knows what the light is, not even Jacob, indicates that the finale will actually be the survivors not doing what Jacob or the Man in Black tell them to do. I think that they'll discover what the light really is, and everyone will have been wrong. There will be no candidates in the end. No protector. Something new will be created.

The CrazyMom in the last episode saying that the light is the source of life, death and rebirth, especially that last one, tells me that it has something to do with the flash-sideways.

Of course, I'm starting to make predictions, so I doubt I'm right either.

Since there's a skeleton for Brother in Black, I will assume Smoke Monster took on Brother in Black's form just to mess with Jacob's head. (Even though I thought one brother couldn't kill another brother...)

I don't really understand why the Man in Black's body being found in the river means that the Smoke Monster isn't him. He has said this season that Jacob stole his body, which we saw pretty clearly in this episode. Throwing the Man in Black into the light ripped his soul from his body, creating the Smoke Monster. The fact a body was left behind doesn't mean it's not him.

Whether or not anyone here believes in souls doesn't mean they haven't been clearly shown to exist in Lost's world. Ghosts appear on the Island; the whispers are those who can't "move on." Libby has appeared as a ghost to Michael, but her body is buried somewhere on the Island. The internal rules of the show most clearly indicate that the Smoke Monster really is the Man in Black, but in some uber-ghost form as a result of being thrown into the light.

Hmm..quotes messed up. I don't think I said what you said I said

I dunno. I still think there's something to the Jack/Sawyer comparison. I still remember from way back when that the powers that be said Sawyer makes it to the end as well as Jack.

 

[Mallet]

I dunno. I still think there's something to the Jack/Sawyer comparison. I still remember from way back when that the powers that be said Sawyer makes it to the end as well as Jack.

That's because Jack & Sawyer are twin brothers separated at birth.

 

[Hunter X]

Hmm..quotes messed up. I don't think I said what you said I said

All fixed.

 

[Jenee]

Throwing the Man in Black into the light ripped his soul from his body, creating the Smoke Monster. The fact a body was left behind doesn't mean it's not him.

Yeah, I immediately figured Smokey was:

1. MIB's soul plus something "bad" from down there.

2. The bad thing that got woken up, no MIB included. Smokey decides to mimic MIB because, hey, not too many people to mimic on that island...

But we don't know which it is, really.

I don't believe there's anything "evil" in that cave. Just the overwhelming ..."lightness" makes people act a little crazy afterward. You know ..., being greedy for more, not letting anyone else share in it ... stuff like that.

So, the only soul that went into the cave is the only soul that came out.