Moon-walker claims alien contact cover-up

[FordSVT]

^But the thing is, we don't know how many people in a position of power know about it. It doesn't have to be a vast conspiracy. I'm not claiming there are underground bases and retro-engineered spaceships, and government collusion, etc., but if the US government does know anything at all, it's possible it's only known to a very small number of people. Need to know only, the highest level of secrecy, maybe even the POTUS knows fuck all. It might just be "there are other beings here from some place else and we don't know what they want", and that's not a hard secret for a few hundred people to keep. Those that let it leak are immediately ridiculed, so who cares even if they do say anything?

It would take a real, concerted effort by people who are supposedly "in the know" to break the truth, if the truth is indeed what we're talking about. Something like the failed "Disclosure Project", a large mass of very credible people in the position to know who put their careers on the line and releasing verifiable evidence. If not direct evidence of visitors, direct evidence the US government still considers these unknown things a reality and not just Venus or a cloud obscuring the moon.

It's probably good for us that there is a "big secret" if indeed there is one. Like you said, if it was a dire situation, or if we knew they were hostile or that they had bad intentions or if we knew a lot about them or if the government was in cahoots with them in a massive conspiracy, someone or a group of people probably would have done something dramatic to show the truth. it's less likely that people who found out "the truth" would put their careers on the line if there isn't much available evidence to back them off, and they don't have the incentive if the only info is "the US government knows there are UFOs flying around the earth and we don't know what they are".

I know people think that it's impossible to keep a secret, but the beauty of this secret is that it's not. You say "completely unknown to the public" but we're talking about it right now! They can keep the small amount of hard evidence they may or may not have hidden, and anyone who does break the trust is dismissed as a loon. Look how quickly several ordinarily open-minded people in this thread (in a Star Trek forum at that) immediately went to "he's crazy and he's old" when this former astronaut makes these claims? If you don't believe him due to lack of evidence, that's fine, but what's with the ridicule?

I am not advocating the existence of ETs or spaceships or government involvement with aliens. For all we know it's a bunch of hog-wash. But I have a serious problem with this particular argument.

 

[Carpe Occasio]

Doesn't he describe the aliens in the traditional, just like in the movies way? Also, I believe he's in a hospital undergoing a psychiatric evaluation.

 

[zenophite]

Doesn't he describe the aliens in the traditional, just like in the movies way?

films took took accounts of people claiming to be abducted as inspiration for the "just like in the movies way" to some degree.

Also, I believe he's in a hospital undergoing a psychiatric evaluation.

I've never heard this before about Mitchell-where did you hear or read this?
Interestingly that's exactly the type of subtle doubt induction meant to manipulate people into dismissing someone's credibility.

 

[Carpe Occasio]

Doesn't he describe the aliens in the traditional, just like in the movies way?

films took took accounts of people claiming to be abducted as inspiration for the "just like in the movies way" to some degree.

Also, I believe he's in a hospital undergoing a psychiatric evaluation.

I've never heard this before about Mitchell-where did you hear or read this?
Interestingly that's exactly the type of subtle doubt induction meant to manipulate people into dismissing someone's credibility.

I heard the psych eval thing on a radio news report.

 

[Deckerd]

I read the book Moondust by Andrew Smith, where he interviewed all the surviving Apollo astronauts who had walked on the moon. Many of them had psychological problems after they left the space programme, not least because once you've been to the moon, what challenges are left?

 

[Irishman]

Doesn't he describe the aliens in the traditional, just like in the movies way?

films took took accounts of people claiming to be abducted as inspiration for the "just like in the movies way" to some degree.

Also, I believe he's in a hospital undergoing a psychiatric evaluation.

I've never heard this before about Mitchell-where did you hear or read this?
Interestingly that's exactly the type of subtle doubt induction meant to manipulate people into dismissing someone's credibility.

Indeed, the Betty and Barney Hill experience was a huge influence on later "abductees" and filmmakers regarding how the aliens would look.

I see their experience as the only one untainted by pop culture. Think of that map she produced.

 

[Carpe Occasio]

Doesn't he describe the aliens in the traditional, just like in the movies way?

films took took accounts of people claiming to be abducted as inspiration for the "just like in the movies way" to some degree.

Also, I believe he's in a hospital undergoing a psychiatric evaluation.

I've never heard this before about Mitchell-where did you hear or read this?
Interestingly that's exactly the type of subtle doubt induction meant to manipulate people into dismissing someone's credibility.

Indeed, the Betty and Barney Hill experience was a huge influence on later "abductees" and filmmakers regarding how the aliens would look.

I see their experience as the only one untainted by pop culture. Think of that map she produced.

The Betty and Barney Hill story happened in 1961. The Aztec UFO hoax happened in 1950 with similar alien descriptions predating the Hills.

 

[Irishman]

films took took accounts of people claiming to be abducted as inspiration for the "just like in the movies way" to some degree.

I've never heard this before about Mitchell-where did you hear or read this?
Interestingly that's exactly the type of subtle doubt induction meant to manipulate people into dismissing someone's credibility.

Indeed, the Betty and Barney Hill experience was a huge influence on later "abductees" and filmmakers regarding how the aliens would look.

I see their experience as the only one untainted by pop culture. Think of that map she produced.

The Betty and Barney Hill story happened in 1961. The Aztec UFO hoax happened in 1950 with similar alien descriptions predating the Hills.

Well, now the onus is on you to show that the Hills could have reasonably been aware of that hoax.

 

[Carpe Occasio]

Indeed, the Betty and Barney Hill experience was a huge influence on later "abductees" and filmmakers regarding how the aliens would look.

I see their experience as the only one untainted by pop culture. Think of that map she produced.

The Betty and Barney Hill story happened in 1961. The Aztec UFO hoax happened in 1950 with similar alien descriptions predating the Hills.

Well, now the onus is on you to show that the Hills could have reasonably been aware of that hoax.

It was published in a book called "Behind the Flying Saucers".

 

[Irishman]

The Betty and Barney Hill story happened in 1961. The Aztec UFO hoax happened in 1950 with similar alien descriptions predating the Hills.

Well, now the onus is on you to show that the Hills could have reasonably been aware of that hoax.

It was published in a book called "Behind the Flying Saucers".

And where was it sold? etc etc

 

[Carpe Occasio]

Well, now the onus is on you to show that the Hills could have reasonably been aware of that hoax.

It was published in a book called "Behind the Flying Saucers".

And where was it sold? etc etc

How am I supposed to know the distribution history of a book from the 1950's?

 

[zenophite]

The truth is that diminutive big headed human like creatures have been depicted for a long time even prior to many of these accounts - for example look at the wanjinas - sacred images of the Australian aborigines:

http://broomecamshop.com/images/ImagesOfPower.jpg

 

[Irishman]

The truth is that diminutive big headed human like creatures have been depicted for a long time even prior to many of these accounts - for example look at the wanjinas - sacred images of the Australian aborigines:

http://broomecamshop.com/images/ImagesOfPower.jpg

But how would the Hills have been exposed to that??????

 

[Irishman]

It was published in a book called "Behind the Flying Saucers".

And where was it sold? etc etc

How am I supposed to know the distribution history of a book from the 1950's?

That's my point. Just saying something was printed doesn't mean they did or could have come by a copy. It takes more evidence than that.

 

[Carpe Occasio]

And where was it sold? etc etc

How am I supposed to know the distribution history of a book from the 1950's?

That's my point. Just saying something was printed doesn't mean they did or could have come by a copy. It takes more evidence than that.

I never said they had a copy. I implied that their descriptions could have been tainted by a published and available book.

Defenders of Dr. Mitchell support his theory of a government cover-up. But the question is, could the government really keep something like that under wraps for the last 51 years (using Roswell as a start date)? Someone somewhere in the government would have leaked proof. And I don't mean anecdotal stories (there's a contested word around here) or hand drawn diagrams. I mean hardware, new technology, a flyby and landing, something.

 

[diankra]

Wow. This is interesting. Alien-existence debunkers on a Trek board. I must have stepped into the mirror universe this morning and forgot to check my quantum phase stabilization device.

There's a difference between thinking that aliens might be out there - that it's pretty unlikely Earth is the only planet where life came into existence - and believing that they're capable of visiting Earth, have been, and that there's a big conspiracy to hush it up.
Ultimately, Mitchell's opinion isn't worth any more than anyone else's, unless he's claiming he has proof, or knows because he's met/seen one. Which doesn't seem to be the case, unless anyone knows different?

 

[zenophite]

The truth is that diminutive big headed human like creatures have been depicted for a long time even prior to many of these accounts - for example look at the wanjinas - sacred images of the Australian aborigines:

http://broomecamshop.com/images/ImagesOfPower.jpg

But how would the Hills have been exposed to that??????

No I think you missed my point. Since these depictions are so much older and not limited to the western mind particularly, I think it seems more indicative that these alien visitations or whatever they are might be more than just the fanciful imaginings of a few attention hungry lunatics. The Hills likely would not have been exposed to this sort of thing.

Interestingly from what I have heard they also stated that they saw at least one person in what seemed like Nazi uniforms. On the surface this may seem like the fodder of ST:Enterprise "alien-nazi" jokes but think about it seriously for a second.

In the 1950's nobody would have been aware of operation paperclip and the great extent to which the US government collaborated with nazi scientists and war criminals for the sake of technological development - in fact many of documents of that period are still classified. Would she add one more element that is so disjoint from the rest of her experience?

 

[diankra]

I read the book Moondust by Andrew Smith, where he interviewed all the surviving Apollo astronauts who had walked on the moon. Many of them had psychological problems after they left the space programme, not least because once you've been to the moon, what challenges are left?

Indeed. In the Mercury-Gemini-Apollo era, you didn't get into NASA and onto Deke's long list of people who he felt capable of doing the job unless you were a very driven, competitive person (ISTR someone did an analysis, and the early astronauts were disporportionately first born sons of high-achieving fathers - check your Freud on that!). Inevitably they had trouble finding another project that challenged them afterwards.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

I believe him. Why? I dunno just a gut feeling, and i trust my gut feelings more than others.

Here's the part where I try to come up with "logical arguments" to justify my gut feeling just like everyone else is doing. I'll get back to it

 

[Brolan]

The reason I know this alien stuff is nonsense is my experience as a young lad on Air Force bases. My father was career Air Force and I grew up on Air Force bases around the world. One thing I found out is secrets are not very secret.

The men in the Air Force keep secrets but often let it slip to their wives, and their wives talk to each other. You wouldn't believe the things I found out while listening to my mother gossip with other women in a laundry rooms, over coffee, etc.

If aliens fell from the sky on an Army base I have no doubt some men would have told their wives, they would talked to each other, and it would be common knowledge now.