MLB Offseason 2014-15: Wait, pitchers and catchers report WHEN?

[Yanks]

Pete Rose has officially applied to Manfred for reinstatement.

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

... but he didn't bet against the Reds and he's 74 years old....

so says all the TV spots....

He's gonna get in.

"Peter Edward Rose is hereby declared permanently ineligible in accordance with Major League Rule 21 and placed on the Ineligible List.

Agreed to and resolved this 23rd day of August 1989,
(Signature)
Peter Edward Rose"

What part of "he willingly accepted a lifetime ban from baseball in exchange for a halt to the investigation into his transgressions" is difficult to understand? There is very little, not even violent felonies, that is more threatening to the health of the game of baseball than MLB players or managers gambling on games they are involved in. If it became widely known that games, today, in the world we live in now and not the 1800s, were heavily influenced because some players or managers had money riding on them, then why the hell should we watch? What's the point of being a fan and following baseball at that point? That's why Judge Landis banned the Black Sox, and that's why Bart Giamatti brokered the agreement with Rose.

There's a reason Rule 21 is the one and only rule that is posted in every single Major League clubhouse. Gambling on games cannot be tolerated. That is the threat to the integrity of the game, not players shooting Winstrol or whatever into their butts in the hopes that they might suddenly become magic dinger-hitting moon monsters.

If you actually go to the Hall in New York, you'll see that Rose is all over it for his statistical accomplishments. He just doesn't have a plaque. Boohoo for him.

You're acting like it ME that will let him in...

You're acting like I want him in...

All I'm saying is why would the new commish even entertain giving him an audience? We got "no timetable" instead of "waste of time"

As you've said, it's pretty cut and dry.

..or is it?

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2...e-pete-rose/D1qrdAOFFflF1GFOXTQVmN/story.html

 

[Jedi_Master]

Pete Rose has officially applied to Manfred for reinstatement.

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Did he sign the letter "Charlie Hustle"?

 

[Yanks]

Pete Rose has officially applied to Manfred for reinstatement.

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Did he sign the letter "Charlie Hustle"?

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Pete Rose has officially applied to Manfred for reinstatement.

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Clearly he's still a betting man. Maybe he should do an interview with Jim Gray about it.

--Sran

 

[Use of Time]

My position on Rose is that he should not be reinstated in baseball. The Hall of Fame...absolutely. He'd have to endure the morality buzzsaw that is the baseball writers association but he deserves to be part of the story of baseball.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^That's more or less how I feel. I'm fine with his being in the HOF, but he doesn't deserve to work in baseball again. Too much baggage and drama; more than that, I don't know where he'd even fit. He's been out of the game more than twenty five years, and would likely struggle to relate to today's players.

--Sran

 

[Timby]

My position on Rose is that he should not be reinstated in baseball. The Hall of Fame...absolutely. He'd have to endure the morality buzzsaw that is the baseball writers association but he deserves to be part of the story of baseball.

Go to Cooperstown. Rose is all over the Hall of Fame. His accomplishments are depicted everywhere.

He just doesn't have a plaque.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

My position on Rose is that he should not be reinstated in baseball. The Hall of Fame...absolutely. He'd have to endure the morality buzzsaw that is the baseball writers association but he deserves to be part of the story of baseball.

That tends to be my view. I would add that he should be eligible as a player, not a manager.

Then again, Shoeless Joe Jackson is still ineligible and he'll always come off as a more sympathetic character.

 

[Tom Hendricks]

No Hall, not now, not ever, never!

 

[Use of Time]

My position on Rose is that he should not be reinstated in baseball. The Hall of Fame...absolutely. He'd have to endure the morality buzzsaw that is the baseball writers association but he deserves to be part of the story of baseball.

Go to Cooperstown. Rose is all over the Hall of Fame. His accomplishments are depicted everywhere.

He just doesn't have a plaque.

Super. Now lets get him a plaque then.

 

[Scout101]

I hate my computer... a response to scouts' rants all typed up, then ... poof....

(headbang)...

To summarize .... apple and oranges, 180 plus games as a pro isn't a "small sample" and his average in ST is not down to .158.

(Bolding mine) And this is why everyone has so much trouble taking you at all seriously. You posted a bunch of stuff that shows zero understanding about baseball. You got corrected, with numbers and examples, by several people. You childishly characterize the responses as rants, and go back to posting the same nonsense, as if no one even responded to you. How old are you, again?

And if you don't want to see anything except through pinstripe-tinted glasses, perhaps you'd be happier at NYYFans.com? Although even there they seem more realistic about their team than you, and at least understand a little about the numbers behind how baseball works. It's not as highbrow as some other sites, but it's something.

And just to have fun addressing your "point" again, Didi got a couple hits. To prove how dumb talking about spring training numbers is, he's now got 6 hits, so is batting .272. In 22 at bats. Which means he's moved up, and is now your THIRD BEST hitter in ST. Only behind Headley (.375) and ARod (.300). ARod has the same 6 hits, but 2 less ABs. So again, you have no idea what you're talking about. So now Didi is one of your hottest hitters, plus plays actual defense. Proving himself yet? And did those 3 hits really tell you anything?

No, but neither did the first 3, which is why it's dumb to over-react to small sample sizes. Ortiz hit almost .700 in the World Series, but no one expects that to be sustainable. Same as how people rarely get fired as washed up after having a bad week in baseball. It's a long season, and takes a lot of time for the numbers to stabilize and reflect reality. Anyone can have a hot or cold week and skew the stats. And spring training is more about getting ready than trying to put up numbers, so even the samples you get aren't usually good.

For fun, the rest of your murderer's row this spring:

Ellsbury (.222)
McCann (.217)
Teixeira (.192)
Drew (.167)
Beltran (.158)
Gardner (.138)

So, back to telling us he sucks, and everyone else is doing just fine. Of course, several of the guys on that last list are doing that while ALSO having stuff to prove, so...?

 

[cardinal biggles]

My position on Rose is that he should not be reinstated in baseball. The Hall of Fame...absolutely. He'd have to endure the morality buzzsaw that is the baseball writers association but he deserves to be part of the story of baseball.

Go to Cooperstown. Rose is all over the Hall of Fame. His accomplishments are depicted everywhere.

He just doesn't have a plaque.

Super. Now lets get him a plaque then.

And they can mount it where it belongs, out back by the dumpsters.

 

[Yanks]

No Hall, not now, not ever, never!

I don't know. He didn't bet against his team. Was he a dumb ass? ... sure ... but this isn't like the Black Sox scandal.

Hey, many think the roid abusers should get in, so why not Charley Hustle?

 

[Scout101]

Only wiggle room I see is that all his HoF accomplishments were as a player, and the scumbag stuff keeping him out was after, as a coach. Or, at least as how I've heard the timeline. Maybe that's the wiggle room?

 

[Timby]

He didn't bet against his team.

John Dowd had him dead to rights for betting against the Reds. Rose voluntarily accepted his lifetime ban in exchange for MLB not putting that information in the Dowd Report.

Hey, many think the roid abusers should get in, so why not Charley Hustle?

Steroid use is an entirely different beast from gambling, because baseball has never been clean. I said this on the last page: There is very little, not even violent felonies, that is more threatening to the health of the game of baseball than MLB players or managers gambling on games they are involved in. If it became widely known that games, today, in the world we live in now and not the 1800s, were heavily influenced because some players or managers had money riding on them, then why the hell should we watch? What's the point of being a fan and following baseball at that point? That's why Judge Landis banned the Black Sox, and that's why Bart Giamatti brokered the agreement with Rose.

There's a reason Rule 21 is the one and only rule that is posted in every single Major League clubhouse. Gambling on games cannot be tolerated. That is the threat to the integrity of the game, not players shooting Winstrol or whatever into their butts in the hopes that they might suddenly become magic dinger-hitting moon monsters.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I do think the two are a lot closer than that, though. Baseball has never been clean, that's correct, but that doesn't mean things aren't against the rules. I think the impact of steroids has been overstated, but I do think a serious effort needs to be made to "discount" the effect of steroids (however, I think the bigger deal is the guilt by stereotype and innuendo where power hitters of the steroid era are punished, often without proof, instead of pitchers who probably benefited more).

That being said, I think a distinction between Rose and a player and Rose as a manager is still appropriate. His gambling had no impact on him as a player. I also think it's well past time for the Black Sox to get consideration.

 

[Timby]

Baseball has never been clean, that's correct, but that doesn't mean things aren't against the rules.

I feel this argument would hold more water if baseball had a comprehensive drug policy prior to 2004.

 

[Yanks]

He didn't bet against his team.

John Dowd had him dead to rights for betting against the Reds. Rose voluntarily accepted his lifetime ban in exchange for MLB not putting that information in the Dowd Report.

This I did not know.

I was looking for an out, but if he bet against his own team then screw him.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Baseball has never been clean, that's correct, but that doesn't mean things aren't against the rules.

I feel this argument would hold more water if baseball had a comprehensive drug policy prior to 2004.

I agree with you to a point. However, if something was illegal before 2004, it's still illegal regardless of the policy and, after there's a policy, there's no dispute someone is responsible for that. Granted, the notice isn't the same. There's no sign on a wall saying "if you use steroids, you're banned from Baseball," but that doesn't mean it isn't an intentional rules violation.

To me, the issues are a lot closer than you think. But I also don't think there should be absolutes either way. I think the rule on gambling is too punitive (although, frankly, I think the admission limitations to the Hall of Fame are a bigger issue).

 

[Tom Hendricks]

I think the rule on gambling is too punitive.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement.