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MLB Discussion - 2012 Season

I can't wait until my boys are old enough to do a tour of baseball parks. My older son Ian who is three, likes to sit with me and watch baseball on my iPad. Figured would start out with an East Coast trip first, Fenway, Yankee Stadium, Citi-Field, Citizens Bank Park, Camden Yards, Nationals Park, Turner Field, Marlins Park and Tropicana Field. Figure it would be a two week road trip, just me and my two boys. Figure I would do it when my older one is seven and younger is five. It would be a mixture of driving and flying.

Mr. Laser Beam said:
^ A couple of weeks ago I was lucky enough to find two ballparks to visit (Camden Yards and Citizens Bank Park) where I could book hotels right next door.

I am particularly grateful that I never had to deal with Phillies fans on the subway after a game at CBP. It was hard enough dealing with them at the game itself.
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Did you do one of those tours in the past? I think I remember you posting about it, or maybe someone else on here. At this point I'm still several years away from this happening. While the Tour place sounds intriguing, there something about jumping in a car and heading out for a road trip with your boys that is just to alluring. But considering that I will be almost 50 when this happen, it may not so alluring by then and the Tour maybe the thing.
 
Mr. Laser Beam said:
I am particularly grateful that I never had to deal with Phillies fans on the subway after a game at CBP. It was hard enough dealing with them at the game itself.
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Right, because I'm sure your Bleacher Creature idols are so courteous towards fans of opposing teams.
 
^ And even then it's not that bad. It's always good-natured jibes. Nothing more.

I have been sitting out there for quite awhile now and never once has anyone been openly hassled (not there or anywhere else in the stadium).
 
Tom Hendricks said:
When I lived in Great Neck, I could hop onto the Long Island Rail Road (LIRR) and be to Shea/Citi-field in eight stops, about 15 minutes. Now that I'm further out on the island, driving is easier but yeah I hate having to deal with the rush out of the ball park. If I have a choice, I'll take mass transit.
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At first I thought there's no way Great Neck is that close to Queens, but then I realized, my folks lived in Great Neck right after they got married. Ain't that far from the tunnel on the 495.

I'm moving to Poughkeepsie tomorrow. Do-able to the Mets, Yanks, or the Dreadowlands, but a loooooong trip. Still beats driving. Honestly it would probably take me just as long just to drive to Gillette to see the Pats, though watching them beat the Jets at home would be great payback for that godawful playoff game I dropped $350 to see a couple years ago. If a flaming meteorite hit MetLife during the Jets-Giants preseason game, I could live with that.
 
I don't think this overall hurts the Yankees. In fact I think the really poor pitching of Phil Hughes is worst right now and they were really counting on him.

I think he was hurt before he came to the Yanks, something wrong when the team trades him for basically a bucket of balls. They have Andy Pettitte and a few minor leaguers. Also who ever else is out there on the scrap heap to take up innings.
 
Bucket of balls? Think you may have undersold the Yankee's top prospect just a tad, no?

And it's possible he was hurt before, although they checked I'm sure. More likely that the M's didn't like his makup, which manifested itself in Pineda showing up for Spring Training in crappy shape. Whether he hurt himself in the off-season, or in spring training BECAUSE he wasn't in good shape, who knows.

It definitely hurts the Yankees, though. They were hoping to slot him in as a #2, maybe #3 guy, and the numbers he put up last year would have been huge. Instead they lost Montero and got a guy with crappy work ethics who now has a serious shoulder injury. Labrum isn't a good one for a pitcher, you'd rather they have Tommy John instead, as there's a documented recovery rate there, and it's a good one. Shoulder issues are harder to bounce back from.
 
I wasn't trying to disparage Montero, I was trying to say that the Yankees really underpaid for Pineda and they should have wondered why. I can imagine that the Yankees thought they were making a killing here. A possible number two starter obtained with a well valued minor leaguer.
 
Tom Hendricks said:
I wasn't trying to disparage Montero, I was trying to say that the Yankees really underpaid for Pineda and they should have wondered why.
Click to expand...

What in the world? Pineda was considered a future world-class #1 starter, one of the best prospects in all of baseball, and his 173/55 K/BB ratio is ridiculous, and Montero is still considered a world-class hitting prospect, even though he can't catch. To say that they underpaid for him is patently absurd. Just about everyone in baseball felt the trade was pretty balanced, tipped a bit in favor towards the Yankees, and there's no evidence that Pineda was hurt prior to the trade. (If there were, Cashman would have been raising holy hell and trying to have the deal invalidated by now.)

In any event, the timeline appears to be:

- Pineda shows up to camp a little fatter than he should, Yankees make a fake show of him not being guaranteed a spot to motivate him

- Fans and media notice Pineda's velocity is down a little bit, even though it's early spring and a lot of guys are

- It becomes enough of a story that his roster spot is legitimately in jeopardy for some reason

- Pineda overthrows in his final spring training start because he's worried about his roster spot and tweaks something

- MRI comes up clean so they put him back out there

- Pineda fully tears his labrum in the rehab start

It is a rough injury, though. A torn labrum is usually a death sentence for a pitcher's career -- if Pineda manages to come back, I doubt he'll ever be more than a back-of-rotation guy.
 
Timby said:
Tom Hendricks said:
I wasn't trying to disparage Montero, I was trying to say that the Yankees really underpaid for Pineda and they should have wondered why.
Click to expand...

What in the world? Pineda was considered a future world-class #1 starter, one of the best prospects in all of baseball, and his 173/55 K/BB ratio is ridiculous, and Montero is still considered a world-class hitting prospect, even though he can't catch. To say that they underpaid for him is patently absurd. Just about everyone in baseball felt the trade was pretty balanced, tipped a bit in favor towards the Yankees, and there's no evidence that Pineda was hurt prior to the trade. (If there were, Cashman would have been raising holy hell and trying to have the deal invalidated by now.)

In any event, the timeline appears to be:

- Pineda shows up to camp a little fatter than he should, Yankees make a fake show of him not being guaranteed a spot to motivate him

- Fans and media notice Pineda's velocity is down a little bit, even though it's early spring and a lot of guys are

- It becomes enough of a story that his roster spot is legitimately in jeopardy for some reason

- Pineda overthrows in his final spring training start because he's worried about his roster spot and tweaks something

- MRI comes up clean so they put him back out there

- Pineda fully tears his labrum in the rehab start

It is a rough injury, though. A torn labrum is usually a death sentence for a pitcher's career -- if Pineda manages to come back, I doubt he'll ever be more than a back-of-rotation guy.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree with anything in your timeline about his injury.

However about the equability of the trade I'm sorry, I don’t see anyway the Mariners made out in this deal. If you're saying it was a win-win because of needs filled, I would kinda agree with that. However, for the price and length that they had Pineda locked up, they should’ve gotten much more. The Yankees clearly won this deal. They got a pitcher with MLB experience, a high ceiling, and they did so on the cheap. A single prospect, who's at best a DH.
 
What is funny about that rout, it's started with a giant pet peeve of mine. A pitchers inability to throw the ball to the first baseman on a ground ball to them. This simple task, which caused an error let open the flood gates.

Mr. Laser Beam said:
Well, Mets got their asses handed to them in Colorado...

BUT Scott Hairston hit for the cycle.

ummm...meh? :lol:
Click to expand...
 
Tom Hendricks said:
Timby said:
Tom Hendricks said:
I wasn't trying to disparage Montero, I was trying to say that the Yankees really underpaid for Pineda and they should have wondered why.
Click to expand...

What in the world? Pineda was considered a future world-class #1 starter, one of the best prospects in all of baseball, and his 173/55 K/BB ratio is ridiculous, and Montero is still considered a world-class hitting prospect, even though he can't catch. To say that they underpaid for him is patently absurd. Just about everyone in baseball felt the trade was pretty balanced, tipped a bit in favor towards the Yankees, and there's no evidence that Pineda was hurt prior to the trade. (If there were, Cashman would have been raising holy hell and trying to have the deal invalidated by now.)

In any event, the timeline appears to be:

- Pineda shows up to camp a little fatter than he should, Yankees make a fake show of him not being guaranteed a spot to motivate him

- Fans and media notice Pineda's velocity is down a little bit, even though it's early spring and a lot of guys are

- It becomes enough of a story that his roster spot is legitimately in jeopardy for some reason

- Pineda overthrows in his final spring training start because he's worried about his roster spot and tweaks something

- MRI comes up clean so they put him back out there

- Pineda fully tears his labrum in the rehab start

It is a rough injury, though. A torn labrum is usually a death sentence for a pitcher's career -- if Pineda manages to come back, I doubt he'll ever be more than a back-of-rotation guy.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree with anything in your timeline about his injury.

However about the equability of the trade I'm sorry, I don’t see anyway the Mariners made out in this deal. If you're saying it was a win-win because of needs filled, I would kinda agree with that. However, for the price and length that they had Pineda locked up, they should’ve gotten much more. The Yankees clearly won this deal. They got a pitcher with MLB experience, a high ceiling, and they did so on the cheap. A single prospect, who's at best a DH.
Click to expand...

Your persecution complex is kind of funny. I said, in the exact post you quoted, "the trade was pretty balanced, tipped a bit in favor of the Yankees." How in the world does that convert to me saying that "the Mariners made out in this deal?"

Montero was considered the fifth-best prospect in all of baseball somewhat recently. The Mariners traded a pitcher they knew they couldn't pay when arbitration came up for a guy who can fucking rake, and can easily become the next Edgar Martinez. I don't get why you continue to rag on what the Yankees gave up -- it's like you're rationalizing the Yankees' decision, saying "Eh, they didn't give up that much." A world-class prospect was traded for a world-class prospect. The Mariners needed a bat, the Yankees needed an arm. It's as simple as that.
 
I'm just going to leave this here:

Oq6Gx.jpg
 
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