Misogyny and Racism in STU

[Farscape One]

It also comes down to the Genesis planet being under heavy scrutiny with the Klingons, and a potential conflict simply because that device exists.

Even Spock said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

Having more than one Starfleet ship, with the first being a purely scientific ship, there at one time could have created issues Starfleet and the Federation did not want to go through.

Respecting a cultural myth takes a bit of a backseat when you have the safety of many Federation worlds to consider.

 

[Guy Gardener]

A small nebula is the size of millions of planets, maybe millions of millions of planets.

The Federation were prepared to hide one lone tiny planet not being a dead husk any more.

Easy as piss.

A nebula disappeared.

That's big time.

Like as if the Russians filled in the Grand Canyon over night.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

More they deny it because they can't control it.

Very familiar position taken by too many in today's world. That said, Morrow's statement seemed to stem from more than just an inability to control Vulcan "mysticism" (speaking as a representative of Starfleet), but an arrogant disbelief in general, as if every world of the Federation and every non-member species were completely lacking any sort of spiritual / supernatural part of their lives and/or known ability. His reaction was absurd on its face and made him appear astoundingly small-minded--a perfect contrast to the faith Kirk and his friends had to embrace in order to reunite their friend's Katra with his body.

And the Vulcans would not disclose more than absolutely necessary and possibly it only happened because of Sarek's position and pull with the Vulcan government.

True, but in the grand scheme of things, from the Vulcan perspective, the ritual was a possibility, not something rejected outright like the Morrow types.

..and again, one has to wonder what Morrow (and anyone else sharing his disbelief) had to say when a guy thought to be dead (one would assume he believed that to be the irreversible state) shows up at Federation headquarters?

 

[fireproof78]

True, but in the grand scheme of things, from the Vulcan perspective, the ritual was a possibility, not something rejected outright like the Morrow types.

True, but as others noted, this wasn't just a simple retrieval mission. As Morrow notes Genesis was a political taboo subject and the planet under quarantine. Kirk's request and Sarek's as well, was running up against political realities.

 

[Silvercrest]

I understand that fully. It's hard to believe something unless you have proof or have seen it yourself.

♪♫I've got faith ... of the heart ... ♪♫

 

[IAmAParrot]

Turnabout Intruder, THE ENTIRE EPISODE. Though that will be my last TOS example, fishes and barrels and all.

Prophet and Lace, what holy hell was that

Sisko's superiority towards Ferengi whom he clearly viewed as lesser beings.

Men NOT getting to wear skants other than as background novelties in I think 2 episodes and possibly a movie. I mean what the hell, you've got Troi in full cleavage gym wear, catsuits for T'Pol and 7 and yet the skant is still unseen.

Okay I found an article I remembered, this person applied the Bechdel test to every single episode of pre-Dsc Star Trek, it's fascinating and comes with graphs! As expected VOY was an overwhelming success, there were simply more women mains on VOY.

Warning: if you scroll past this article you will see potential spoilers for PIcard from a couple eps ago

https://www.themarysue.com/star-trek-bechdel-test/


For those that don't know the Bechdel test is simple:

• There must be at least two (named) women characters;
• Who talk to each other;
• About something other than a man.

You'd think with all the technobabble on Trek this was an easy thing for every episode to pass but.. that is not the case.

I only read up to your post but someone may have beat me to it.
But these are easy to explain. Turnabout intruder is CLEARLY a sign of the times. It was the 60s. Males still had lingering fears of empowered women. Since they mostly controlled the media, of course they'd throw in a story like this, I suspect perhaps to convey to the viewing women that it's not even worth their trouble to ever consider themselves in a powerful position. I'm sure Roddenberry intended to try and say that this is such a bad thing and it should stop as well in the 1960s. Star trek continues followed up on this by trying to imply that that episode was only referring to women not being allowed to captain constitution class starships (or other flagships).
Prophet and lace was 20 years before it's time as well. It was a time where it was easier to joke around about this topic and get away with it. But I don't think this episode is misogynistic or transphobic as much as Turnabout intruder is misogynistic. It's a silly, forgettable episode that I've only watched like once or twice. I think it was just to show how far the ferengi and particularly quark would go, for profit. I doubt it was meant to be anything else. You cant blame the writers of 1998, as much as you want to judge them by today's standards.

The men wearing skant thing, could be because of Berman or other conservatives. It was 1987. It's VERY LIKELY after 1 or 2 episodes showing men wearing skants as you say, that one of the male producers just said "stop doing that. We don't want the [insert kids or families here] to see this and possibly think it's ok to do this in reality also". These are the logical explanations

 

[Crazyewok]

Star trek continues followed up on this by trying to imply that that episode was only referring to women not being allowed to captain constitution class starships (or other flagships).

Because that makes it SOOOOO much better........not.

 

[IAmAParrot]

Because that makes it SOOOOO much better........not.

Come on. I never said it makes it better. I said star trek Continues tried in their way to correct the disaster that was turnabout intruder by making a whole episode about it. There's no way to undo that episode. It's set in stone. The best STC could do is try to minimize the damage. Let's be honest here, Turnabout Intruder is from 1969, the cultural perceptions severely ruined a crucial part of our perceptions of the future in that episode. STC continues ACTUALLY cares about the Lore, and Canon. They don't BRAZENLY neglect Canon and Lore like new trek would do, and simply hand wave it away or claim no such rule in the federation ever existed. Thats the best they could do. Besides, female captains existed since the first few trek movies. And janeway. She's my favorite captain hands down and sisko a close second. No captain manages to feel like a mother, a wife, a leader of a family/community, a very close and loyal friend, and an incredibly strong and fearless captain who knows how to handle the men around her like janeway. When Q bribed janeway to get her home right away if she agreed to sentence Quinn to etneral prison, and the way she whispered "you mean your bribe. It'll play no part in my deliberations". It sends shivers down my spine. I often wonder if somehow this epsjode was done today, most likely from a stolen script one of today's "writers found", how'd they change it to justify imprisoning Quinn forever because mercy killing = bad, and getting home at the eternal expense of another, who cares. We are going home baby to party. Thays why I love and long for trek like Berman Era trek and some of tos also

 

[Oddish]

Prophet and lace was 20 years before it's time as well. It was a time where it was easier to joke around about this topic and get away with it. But I don't think this episode is misogynistic or transphobic as much as Turnabout intruder is misogynistic.

"Profit and Lace" was a bizarre irony, an episode that was supposed to be promoting female empowerment and equality... and it did the exact opposite. Its message was basically that there were no Ferengi women other than Ishka who were smart and capable enough to make a case for female rights. And also that the only way it was possible for a woman to do so was by dropping her panties for a powerful man. Those messages were problematic even by 90's standards.

 

[IAmAParrot]

"Profit and Lace" was a bizarre irony, an episode that was supposed to be promoting female empowerment and equality... and it did the exact opposite. Its message was basically that there were no Ferengi women other than Ishka who were smart and capable enough to make a case for female rights. And also that the only way it was possible for a woman to do so was by dropping her panties for a powerful man. Those messages were problematic even by 90's standards.

Yes. But the joke was, that they're ferengi. The joke was that humanity stopped being that way, but the ferengi, similar to capitalist earth during our time and prior, still were stuck in that phase humanity was, and thus, these things were acceptable.

Obviously ishka can't only be the only smart one. It makes no sense. I've always realized any males of any human culture who try to claim males are "smarter" or "superior" are really just extremely insecure and afraid of women's true powers, as are the ferengi. But the nagus did recognize that half their population could enhance their gdp and that's why they passed those women's rights laws. And also, ishka is the mother of a main character. We wouldn't care to watch some random characters mother would we? Of course it makes no sense why the nagus just so happened to like a main characters mother, but it's a show lol. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the end of profit and lace, didn't that ferengi realize quark was male and not care either way?

 

[Pauln6]

Come on. I never said it makes it better. I said star trek Continues tried in their way to correct the disaster that was turnabout intruder by making a whole episode about it. There's no way to undo that episode. It's set in stone. The best STC could do is try to minimize the damage. Let's be honest here, Turnabout Intruder is from 1969, the cultural perceptions severely ruined a crucial part of our perceptions of the future in that episode. STC continues ACTUALLY cares about the Lore, and Canon. They don't BRAZENLY neglect Canon and Lore like new trek would do, and simply hand wave it away or claim no such rule in the federation ever existed. Thats the best they could do. Besides, female captains existed since the first few trek movies. And janeway. She's my favorite captain hands down and sisko a close second. No captain manages to feel like a mother, a wife, a leader of a family/community, a very close and loyal friend, and an incredibly strong and fearless captain who knows how to handle the men around her like janeway. When Q bribed janeway to get her home right away if she agreed to sentence Quinn to etneral prison, and the way she whispered "you mean your bribe. It'll play no part in my deliberations". It sends shivers down my spine. I often wonder if somehow this epsjode was done today, most likely from a stolen script one of today's "writers found", how'd they change it to justify imprisoning Quinn forever because mercy killing = bad, and getting home at the eternal expense of another, who cares. We are going home baby to party. Thays why I love and long for trek like Berman Era trek and some of tos also

I think STC was wrong to double down on the more sexist possible interpretation of Lester's comment (the other being that Kirk's obsession with command left her unable to compete and her best revenge/only way she could ever understand that was to take his command from him). In trying to paint Starfleet as sexist but evolving, they legitimised that interpretation when they didn't need to and even maintained the status quo instead of rejecting sexism. Bless them for trying to add some context though.

 

[Oddish]

But the nagus did recognize that half their population could enhance their gdp and that's why they passed those women's rights laws.

It was testament to the extraordinary sexism of the Ferengi as a whole that they didn't do that long ago, given the extraordinary increase in their planetary profit margin it represented. Prejudice of that magnitude it too powerful for one person to reverse.

Of course it makes no sense why the nagus just so happened to like a main characters mother, but it's a show lol. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the end of profit and lace, didn't that ferengi realize quark was male and not care either way?

If I remember, he basically said that he saw a hot lookin' woman standing naked in front of him and that was good enough for him.

Obviously ishka can't only be the only smart one. It makes no sense. I've always realized any males of any human culture who try to claim males are "smarter" or "superior" are really just extremely insecure and afraid of women's true powers, as are the ferengi.

The inconsistency could have easily been fixed with some judicious dialogue in assorted Ferengi centered episodes. Something like, the females on Ferenginar are starting to rise up and demand their rights. That would make Ishka the catalyst for a change that was already on the horizon: like the prisoners on Angel One were just part of the society's evolution toward equality.

 

[somebuddyX]

The Ferengi should have gone the opposite way and banned clothes on men too.

 

[fireproof78]

When are we going to get the first fully nudist Star Trek race?

 

[Farscape One]

THE ORVILLE actually beat STAR TREK to that punch.

 

[Oddish]

That would be a nightmare for the set designers, putting enough bushes, flowers, furniture, and other conveniently placed genital-blocking objects around for everyone.

 

[Silvercrest]

When are we going to get the first fully nudist Star Trek race?

We already have. If the Salt Vampire somehow doesn't count, then the Horta should.

 

[IAmAParrot]

It was testament to the extraordinary sexism of the Ferengi as a whole that they didn't do that long ago, given the extraordinary increase in their planetary profit margin it represented. Prejudice of that magnitude it too powerful for one person to reverse.



If I remember, he basically said that he saw a hot lookin' woman standing naked in front of him and that was good enough for him.



The inconsistency could have easily been fixed with some judicious dialogue in assorted Ferengi centered episodes. Something like, the females on Ferenginar are starting to rise up and demand their rights. That would make Ishka the catalyst for a change that was already on the horizon: like the prisoners on Angel One were just part of the society's evolution toward equality.

For me, I think males have no right one way or another to give females any rights. Women shouldn't have to demand it either. Males should be secure enough and not arrogant and not stuoid enough to realize to treat everyone with respect regardless of which gender or gender continuum they wish to be. I honestly think

It was testament to the extraordinary sexism of the Ferengi as a whole that they didn't do that long ago, given the extraordinary increase in their planetary profit margin it represented. Prejudice of that magnitude it too powerful for one person to reverse.



If I remember, he basically said that he saw a hot lookin' woman standing naked in front of him and that was good enough for him.



The inconsistency could have easily been fixed with some judicious dialogue in assorted Ferengi centered episodes. Something like, the females on Ferenginar are starting to rise up and demand their rights. That would make Ishka the catalyst for a change that was already on the horizon: like the prisoners on Angel One were just part of the society's evolution toward equality.

The whole female rights on ferenginar thing on ds9 was really just a way to show how earth evolved in the past few centuries, and ferengi according to data were meant to be a metaphor of earths worst period, aka the capitalistic period, aka today. I really do hope capitalism dies one day. But that's another topic. In order for that to happen people's minds would have to evolve, and selfishness and arrogance, clear indicators of massive internal insecurity, would have to be dealt with and go away if we are even to begin evolving towards a better future and society.

Also this was the 90s remember. The only way they were able to have two females kissing in the trill episode in ds9, was by setting up an excuse to the audience to basically say "oh we aren't doing this gay kissing purposely, there's a perfectly good explanation I promise. You see, they were lovers and were male and female, and that's why they kissed this episode". They had to set it up like that otherwise certain peolle would send letters displaying their level of insecurity and ignorance to the studio.

Also, women shouldn't have to demand anything. They're already born with rights and as a matter of fact have even more freedom and power than males. The only reason the are bad for the most part for women is due to the insecurity of males. All a woman has to do is say no, and most males will freak out and or break apart. The usual tactics of males don't work anymore as they have the past many millenia. But I think the best rule is the Golden rule.

 

[fireproof78]

We already have. If the Salt Vampire somehow doesn't count, then the Horta should.

Horta for the win!

 

[Farscape One]

We already have. If the Salt Vampire somehow doesn't count, then the Horta should.

That is true.