Mirror Universe Assumption

[Nardpuncher]

I first saw Mirror, Mirror when I was about 12, then read the DC comics Star Trek Mirror Universe Saga and am wondeing if this assumption of mine is basically correct:
It seems that in the mirror universe people's basic nature is skewed more to being evil.
I know that sounds dreadfully obvious, but I don't just mean they come from a universe where the Nazis won and more bad things happened, but just that everyone (maybe even Mother Teresa!) are just basically evil.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The strong implication in Crossover is that the various characters are genetically the same, with all the same potential, and the only difference is in their environment. So it makes no sense to say the characters are skewed towards evil - skewed how? By their genetics or by their environment? "Basically evil" makes it sound like you think they were born that way or maybe there's some evil in the atmosphere they breathe or maybe in the molecules of this particular universe that is infecting everyone.

If it's environment (and I think that's the intent), then an reality "where the Nazis won" is enough to shape everyone or at least most people into evil variations of what they could have been.

 

[Ghel]

More corrupt, I would say. The mirror universe seems to reward backstabbing and deceit. In a sense, perhaps without even realizing it, the creaters of the show/episodes are saying that while our heros act heroic in a universe that rewards such things, if villiany were rewarded, our heros could just as easily be treacherous backstabbers. Hmmm.. .

 

[Silvercrest]

You mean like the real world.

 

[sojourner]

Ah, the old nature vs. nurture argument.

 

[Nardpuncher]

The strong implication in Crossover is that the various characters are genetically the same, with all the same potential, and the only difference is in their environment. So it makes no sense to say the characters are skewed towards evil - skewed how? By their genetics or by their environment? "Basically evil" makes it sound like you think they were born that way or maybe there's some evil in the atmosphere they breathe or maybe in the molecules of this particular universe that is infecting everyone.

If it's environment (and I think that's the intent), then an reality "where the Nazis won" is enough to shape everyone or at least most people into evil variations of what they could have been.

Could you refresh my memory as to what happened in Crossover? I can't even recall which series it's from...I'm guessing DS9.

It just seemed like everyone, including Spock, seemed more sinister in a way that went beyong different historical events.
I'm not saying I'm right, it's just the way I saw it I guess. I even wondered if in that universe the Kilngons were,well without getting myself in trouble, "good".

 

[Nerd unRage]

Isn't the Federation in "Mirror, Mirror" referred to as the Empire or something like that? That would seem to indicate that certain major historical events drastically changed the universe and people's overall perception of what mattered most in life.

 

[Nardpuncher]

Yeah, I remember there's even an episode of Enterprise that shows the Vulcans landing in Montana like they did in the movie, then Zephram Cochrane pulls out a gun and shoots them.
Then the opening credits go on to show Earth's history but more violent than our real history.

 

[captcalhoun]

In a Mirror Darkly, parts 1 and 2.

the titles were redone to show warfare through the ages and so on.

and yes, it was the Terran Empire, not the Federation.

most of the Ferengi aren't evil, though...

 

[Timo]

It's not that a select few key turns of history go "worse" in the mirrorland. Everything that happens there seems to involve more evilness and lesbianism and black leather than in the regular universe, in every century and location we have the chance to observe.

I'd thus cast my vote on the model where there's a fundamental, perhaps genetic disposition towards evilness, lesbianism and black leather in the Mirror Universe, and always has been - even the first H. sapiens vs. H. neanderthalis war was decided on the evil lesbianism of the black leather-clad matriatch of the sapiens side.

Of course, I also support the model where each and every Mirror Universe we visit is a separate one, largely disconnected from the others, and "chosen" during the crossover process on the basis of having the closest possible analogies to the characters crossing over conveniently going missing at the time of the crossing. That way, we don't have to worry about e.g. the Mirror folks having cloaks in one episode but not in another...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[AMQ]

I think both parts In mirror darkly in Enterprise were great. I liked the idea, and yes it all started when he killed the first Vulcan. Theme song and war pictures in the intro were great and the story was quite good. Dark story gave chance to normally moral and good characters to show their bad sides. They had all of their characteristics but turned on the bad side. I liked how everything was so extreme and violent in those two epizodes, it was a good change. And Hoshi, that was hillarious...

 

[MikeS]

Was the original Mirror, Mirror written before the idea of a mulitverse and that of every idea or decision creating a new universe? I only ask because it seems that in Trek (TNG's Parrallels aside), there are just two universes, and these are dichotomy's of one another. So is it an old sci-fi idea that no longer has meaning with todays theories of quantum physics?

 

[Arpy]

So were Adam and Eve good and didn't eat of the fruit if the tree but were expelled anyway? Or were they evil and managed to stick around longer than expected?

It's the mirror universe. People are just the opposite of what we are from the same nurture/nature reasons. It's just than Lon Suder isn't a born sociopath nor Data programmed a decent man. Kira, instead of being made a tough of-the-soil freedom fighter, is a well-to-do craven duchess, and loved and educated captain Sisko's a brutish former-slave and depraved pirate.

What's Q like here? The Dominion, Borg, Romulans, Tzenkethi, Iconians, Organians?

 

[Neutral Zone]

What's Q like here? The Dominion, Borg, Romulans, Tzenkethi, Iconians, Organians?

I would reckon that the Dominion, Romulans etc would be like the Federation are now and would be at war with an evil form of the Federation. A total role reversal.

As for Q, who knows? If the Q's became evil, in theory that would be end of all they are most powerful beings in the Universe, but I think that they would stay s sort of neutral nuisance and pain in the backside.

 

[scotpens]

Everything that happens there seems to involve more evilness and lesbianism and black leather than in the regular universe, in every century and location we have the chance to observe.

Lesbianism and black leather . . . YESSSS!!

Was the original Mirror, Mirror written before the idea of a mulitverse and that of every idea or decision creating a new universe? I only ask because it seems that in Trek (TNG's Parrallels aside), there are just two universes, and these are dichotomy's of one another. So is it an old sci-fi idea that no longer has meaning with todays theories of quantum physics?

IIRC, “Mirror, Mirror” was a riff on an idea in one of Harlan Ellison's early drafts of “City on the Edge of Forever.” After the timeline has been changed, Kirk & Co. beam back up to the Enterprise, only to discover that the ship is now named the Condor, its crew is a gang of cutthroat pirate types, and it's the flagship of a ruthless, aggressive warrior empire. This was later changed to the Enterprise -- and presumably the entire history that led to the creation of the Federation and Starfleet -- simply being wiped from existence.

As for being “written before the idea of a mulitverse,” the original episode was intended as a one-shot story, and I'm sure quantum physics was the last thing on writer Jerome Bixby's mind.

 

[Silvercrest]

I think both parts In mirror darkly in Enterprise were great. I liked the idea, and yes it all started when he killed the first Vulcan. Theme song and war pictures in the intro were great and the story was quite good.

It didn't all start there. Those war pictures showed the first moon landing with an evil red spacesuit and a different flag.

I'm certain it was Mike Collins, who assassinated Armstrong and Aldrin for the opportunity....

 

[AMQ]

It didn't all start there. Those war pictures showed the first moon landing with an evil red spacesuit and a different flag.

I'm certain it was Mike Collins, who assassinated Armstrong and Aldrin for the opportunity....

 

[Unicron]

I don't think the Terran Empire as portrayed in TOS (and I'm including MUS as part of this) was one dedicated to the idea of evil for evil's sake. It's not that randomly chaotic. Rather it is a fascist state compared to the UFP, where the crew is expected to work for the state and can act on their own whims within that goal, to a degree. Mirror Chekov tried to assassinate Kirk for disobeying imperial orders, as well as the convenience of promotion. Just like how in many Communist countries, the party runs the state and isn't above offing certain people if they become too much of a threat. It's not killing solely to be evil, usually, but it's not the sort of thing that happens in a more democratic nation.

MUS's origin of the Empire seems to support this idea, with the mirror Earth having lost the pre-Federation war against the Romulans and been temporarily annexed. A resistance movement later freed the planet, but some of its leaders used the struggle as a pretext for creating the fascist Empire, telling the masses that Earth would never again be conquered.

 

[Ensign Johnson]

In the DS9 MU episodes everyone is kinda cheesey evil (but I like it). Could Major Kira really be like the Intendant if she'd been in that situation? Or is the Intendant just evil? Maybe Major Kira does secretly fancy herself.

 

[captcalhoun]

the novels depict the Borg as being basically similar, except the fly Diamonds not Cubes and have a King not a Queen.

Mirror Romulans are basically similar. the main differences being political guff vis-a-vis the Alliance in the 24th century.

no one's done Mirror Q or Mirror Dominion yet.