Miranda Class - Are these phasers?

[Tuskin38]

So Memory-Alpha says there are two phaser on the underside of the Miranda's impulse drive, but I'm not entirely sure, circled them here:

http://imgur.com/a/FfVEs

Thoughts? They do match the colours of the phasers on the saucer.

 

[Tosk]

Maybe you should tell us why you think they aren't?

 

[Tuskin38]

Well they're not dual banks like the rest of them (though then again, neither are the ones on the rolls bar)

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

They're the same color as the double turret ones on the saucer, but with two single turrets. They look like phasers to me, from the poor shots we have of that area.
The older debate is, what are those cylinders at the ends of the roll-bar and why do they seem to fire phasers?

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

I don't see why they couldn't be a phaser bank. They would easily cover the aft ventral area.

 

[Timo]

They're the same color as the double turret ones on the saucer, but with two single turrets. They look like phasers to me, from the poor shots we have of that area.

They seem to go missing from later incarnations of the ship class, but yes, I'm pretty sure the original model had somebody glue two bona fide "phaser pimples" there (perhaps from the mold that produced the phasers atop the hero ship shuttlebay) and deliberately paint them with the same warning color. Then again, me being pretty sure is neither here nor there.

The older debate is, what are those cylinders at the ends of the roll-bar and why do they seem to fire phasers?

In closer examination of ST2:TWoK, they don't actually fire phasers, not necessarily.

In Khan's first attack, the phaser fire correctly comes from the sides of the cylinders (where there are single phaser pimples, bracketed by squares of the same yellow warning color even though not covered by it) and wanders further to the sides as the firing progresses. In the nebula, when Khan fires phasers dead ahead, the shot is arranged so that beams starting at the side pimples would line up with the cylinder bows - which are shown glowing bright and steady white throughout the scene. So we can interpret the second firing whichever way we prefer, including the outboard pimples again being the source.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

They seem to go missing from later incarnations of the ship class, but yes, I'm pretty sure the original model had somebody glue two bona fide "phaser pimples" there (perhaps from the mold that produced the phasers atop the hero ship shuttlebay) and deliberately paint them with the same warning color. Then again, me being pretty sure is neither here nor there.



In closer examination of ST2:TWoK, they don't actually fire phasers, not necessarily.

In Khan's first attack, the phaser fire correctly comes from the sides of the cylinders (where there are single phaser pimples, bracketed by squares of the same yellow warning color even though not covered by it) and wanders further to the sides as the firing progresses. In the nebula, when Khan fires phasers dead ahead, the shot is arranged so that beams starting at the side pimples would line up with the cylinder bows - which are shown glowing bright and steady white throughout the scene. So we can interpret the second firing whichever way we prefer, including the outboard pimples again being the source.

Timo Saloniemi

So just poor FX then? There are some greeblies on the outsides of the cylinders, but hard to believe they would be forward firing.

 

[Timo]

I doubt the VFX or the modelmaking is "poor" - it represents what it was intended to show, the use of sideways-facing phasers (because that's what the Reliant was scripted to do to the poor Enterprise). What made the creators choose this, we don't know - the saucer phasers could have been used for the shot just as well, for the same visual impact.

The cylinder things on the roll bar are a late addition to the model anyway, perhaps intended to facilitate a plot point or a visual setup, perhaps just coincidentally inserted to make the model look a bit more "busy" and then put to use. Fans were eager to interpret the cylinders as superguns, but the plot itself does not credit Khan with better weapons as such, merely with ruthless surprise on his side (resulting in him later outgunning the wounded hero ship).

The above image shows the square markings immediately below the side pimples from which the beams emanate in ST2. A close-up at the bottom of the page below shows the actual pimples, on raised platforms offering a nice forward/aft field of fire, but on blue background merely flanked above and below by the yellow squares, for whatever reason.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/mechanics/brattain1.jpg

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tomalak]

I never understood the fan urge for "megaphasers", as they clearly have no greater effect than the Enterprise's phasers.

I'd interpret those pods as part of the main sensor or deflector array - the big dish is pretty much the only thing Reliant lacks.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I never understood the fan urge for "megaphasers", as they clearly have no greater effect than the Enterprise's phasers.

I'd interpret those pods as part of the main sensor or deflector array - the big dish is pretty much the only thing Reliant lacks.

Most blueprints refer to the grid pattern as a deflector grid, but if that's enough, why have a dish (outside of those deus ex machina moments where the deflector dish becomes a super-weapon in itself)?

 

[Lord Other]

So Memory-Alpha says there are two phaser on the underside of the Miranda's impulse drive, but I'm not entirely sure, circled them here:

http://imgur.com/a/FfVEs

Thoughts? They do match the colours of the phasers on the saucer.

They're really no different than the single mount phaser turrets on the end of the Enterprise's secondary hull (post-refit) above the shuttlebay. It was probably considered a gunnery "blind spot" by the artist, draftsman, or model builder at some stage of Reliant's creation and they added them on.

I never understood the fan urge for "megaphasers", as they clearly have no greater effect than the Enterprise's phasers.

I think some of that tendency of thinking can be in part attributed by literature and what materials that had come out around Star Trek TMP that talked about the sweeping changes being made to the Enterprise's design. In the original Phase II refit there _was_ a phaser cannon to be directly channeled off of the M/AM reactor at the base of the interconnecting pylon. It simply evolved into the photon launcher structure when the design of the Enterprise was finalized for TMP.

I'd interpret those pods as part of the main sensor or deflector array - the big dish is pretty much the only thing Reliant lacks.

I believe the original intent of the designer was for the pods to be sensors- the Reliant does in fact have three "Space/Energy Attraction Sensors" mounts like those of the Enterprise. The reason I point this out is Matt Jefferies makes no reference to the Main Sensor dish also being the Navigational Deflector, in his blueprints as seen below. That the dialogue in TOS points to the plural use of the word, "deflectors" numerous times throughout, and that there are three such boxes mounted on the hull of the Enterprise seems hard to ignore. Plus, given that ILM artists added these particular features to the Reliant as well, sans the sensor dish, I am fairly well convinced that those boxes _ARE_ the navigational deflectors.

 

[Tuskin38]

In closer examination of ST2:TWoK, they don't actually fire phasers, not necessarily.

In Khan's first attack, the phaser fire correctly comes from the sides of the cylinders (where there are single phaser pimples, bracketed by squares of the same yellow warning color even though not covered by it) and wanders further to the sides as the firing progresses. In the nebula, when Khan fires phasers dead ahead, the shot is arranged so that beams starting at the side pimples would line up with the cylinder bows - which are shown glowing bright and steady white throughout the scene. So we can interpret the second firing whichever way we prefer, including the outboard pimples again being the source.

Timo Saloniemi

I see what you mean

First battle:

Mutara Nebula:

 

[Unicron]

I think some of that tendency of thinking can be in part attributed by literature and what materials that had come out around Star Trek TMP that talked about the sweeping changes being made to the Enterprise's design. In the original Phase II refit there _was_ a phaser cannon to be directly channeled off of the M/AM reactor at the base of the interconnecting pylon. It simply evolved into the photon launcher structure when the design of the Enterprise was finalized for TMP.

For my part, I've liked the fanon idea that megaphasers are heavier models that can be mounted on larger ships for extra firepower, or used on smaller designs for a bigger punch without having to mount torpedoes. The Defiant's pulse phasers sort of seem to operate on this principle, having a shorter overall range because the pulses are layered but each pulse has more strength than a traditional beam.

 

[Darkwing]

I never understood the fan urge for "megaphasers", as they clearly have no greater effect than the Enterprise's phasers.

I'd interpret those pods as part of the main sensor or deflector array - the big dish is pretty much the only thing Reliant lacks.

There need not be greater power to make phaser cannon useful. We saw them fire phasers, ergo, they are phasers. Why were they built? What advantage do they offer that the normal turrets didn't? Possibly better firing arcs? Before the TMP refit that routed warp power to the phasers, was this how they built phasers that did that? Reliant had 6 banks of normal, unboosted phasers and two sets of "megaphasers" that had dedicated warp power feeds, and retained that when refit to movie-era tech? That would explain why they didn't use them in TNG.

I'm willing to discuss explanations for them that don't require them being uber-guns.

 

[Ithekro]

I never noticed those turrets under the impulse units.

 

[Timo]

That Khan used the phasers in the roll bar pods exclusively might tell us something about the state of automation in the era. Kirk had explicit "phaser crews" in TOS, and although the ones we saw in "Balance of Terror" appeared to operate multiple weapons including "port, starboard and midships", they only crewed the "forward" phaser room out of clearly multiple ones. I doubt Khan could spare enough loyal people to many such stations. Perhaps his fire team could only operate the weapons associated with the roll bar?

That Khan would use the specific guns to achieve a specific level of destruction is implausible, as initially Khan wanted to wound, but in the nebula he wanted to kill. That he chose the guns for optimal firing angles is partially valid (the villain strikes from below, these guns are dorsal; the two sailing ships exchange blows laterally, these guns are lateral), but doesn't explain why he would use them and nothing but them all the time.

If the bows of the cylinders are one type of gun and the side pimples another, then both the above can be dealt with, though. Khan fires the pods to wound by selecting side pimples, and then fires the pods to kill by selecting the bow rods. And he won't select any other guns in the multi-angle fighting in the nebula because he wants the super duper firepower of the pod rods.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[trekfan39]

People have always said they are phaser but from all the pictures I've seen of the model they look like RCS thrusters.

 

[Timo]

It's quite futile to try and learn "the truth" in a scifi universe where thrusters, guns and other gadgets used to be completely invisible and would continue to pop up (either physically or then by manifesting their effects) in the unlikeliest of places. The TOS movie era just happens to be the most fruitful one for making the attempt: the models are physical and the features are glued on and painted and don't move.

Which still leaves a yellow square as either a phaser turret or then an RCS nozzle by the TOS movie era color coding, but possibly just some sort of a random vent or loading port by the original TOS color coding. There really is no telling.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Aren't the RCS thruster areas colored orange?

 

[trekfan39]

Aren't the RCS thruster areas colored orange?

Nope they are the same color yellow as the phasers and they also have a red pin strip around them. You maybe thinking of the Enterprise-D which did have orange thrusters at the beginning of TNG they were latter changed to yellow too.