Miles O'brien's Bar Tab

[Imperator-Zor]

This is something that bothered me...

• FACT 1: The Federation in the DS9 Era was expressly and repeatedly stated to have abandoned money in favor of the Federation's techno-socialist economy.
• FACT 2: The Ferengi Alliance is a society who's hat his capitalism and a drive to obtain profit. Quark is a traditionalist in this regard.
• FACT 3: Miles O'Brien and the other starfleet guys on Deep Space Nine routinely go to Quarks to buy drinks, use the Holosuites and whatnot.

Here's the sticking point: why would Quark give Miles O'Brien drinks and whatnot when he has no means to pay?

Now I have heard some answers, but they are far from fully satisfactory. I'll list them in short...

• Quark does not pay rent or power bills to Starfleet but part of the deal is that Starfleet Guys have to use the facilities and get stuff for free. This is a partial solution, but the fact of the matter is that there's going to be a point where this would not be profitable for him. If nothing else, there is going to be an opportunity cost if all his Holosuites are taken up by Starfleet guys instead of paying customers. Instead, Quark would likely work out a sum that the rent and power would be cost on a non Starfleet Station and consider that said amount of free stuff that Starfleet is entitled to from his Bar.
  
• Miles O'brien does jobs for Quark fixing things and gets free food, drinks and holosuite time in exchange. This is basically a microcosm of the previous point about rent. He'd work out a de-facto wage in Quark Bucks.

This is not an episode of the week thing, this is a main cast guy with well defined motives who's bar is a big part of the show who's activities clash with the Roddenberry vision and established worldbuilding.

Zor

 

[kkt]

They never said, so we're free to guess. My guess is that the Starfleet staff get their housing, food, medical care, all their necessities paid by Starfleet plus an allowance in latinum that they can use in non-Starfleet establishments like Quark's or Raisa. Quark's charges are cheaper than a typical bar and holosuite emporium due to his free rent, electricity, and most of the maintenance on his machines being done by Starfleet - but not free, as the waiters, the suppliers, and Quark himself still need to be paid in cash.

 

[Watersluis]

FACT 1: The Federation in the DS9 Era was expressly and repeatedly stated to have abandoned money in favor of the Federation's techno-socialist economy.

This in and of itself is simply an impossible scenario that is contradicted by much of the on-screen evidence.
Even if there would not be “money” in name, they trade shifts and “replicator rations” among one another, which thus become a form of currency.

They claim to have a society without money due to having eliminated all scarcity, but scarcity is clearly displayed on-screen as a dramatic plot device, for without scarcity there would be no strife, no conflict, and no plot. That the U.F.P. cannot easily win the war with the Dominion implies the existence of scarcity.

The claim of a society sans currency is simply a nonsensical one, an ideal they want to claim they have, but that cannot actually exist in the world they portrayed — at the bare minimum, they trade goods of value but simply refrain from calling it liquid currency, which is still currency, but it's lack of liquidity simply makes it a cumbersome currency.

Nevertheless, a marvelous reflexion of real life, where such ideals typically also only exist in the form of semantics debates and nomenclature.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

There may be dozens of ways of explaining how things work. However, the fact that DS9 (and most of Star Trek) does not take place in the heart of the Federation should be sufficient. DS9 is outside the Federation, and the people who work their must live, more or less, how people live where they are. It's not unlike the Saudi Arabian diplomats who, in spite of the ban on alcohol in their own country, can be notorious drunks.

 

[Watersluis]

There may be dozens of ways of explaining how things work. However, the fact that DS9 (and most of Star Trek) does not take place in the heart of the Federation should be sufficient. DS9 is outside the Federation, and the people who work their must live, more or less, how people live where they are. It's not unlike the Saudi Arabian diplomats who, in spite of the ban on alcohol in their own country, can be notorious drunks.

There was a dialogue in T.N.G. between Willam Riker and Quark, that very much had the former pressing to receive some latinum that Quark owed him.

Currency is as many things in Star Trek: it exists only when and if the plot, or comic relief, be serviced by it's existence — many a Kathryn Janeway's personality trait definitely falls into that bucket.

 

[Paul Weaver]

Oh good, another money thread.

Federation covers the tab at what it decrees is a fair price to Quark.

The Federation is so much wealthier than Quark (and the Ferengi alliance in general) that it's fairly irrelevant. It's like Jeff Bezos having a night out, he doesn't even know how much it cost, nor does he care, just hands a credit card over (or maybe a PA does).

 

[Captain pl1ngpl0ng]

aren't the replicator that quark use to produce most of the stuff he sells provided by the federation?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

aren't the replicator that quark use to produce most of the stuff he sells provided by the federation?

no, they're Cardassian replicators.

 

[Captain pl1ngpl0ng]

^ ah yes...

 

[Imperator-Zor]

This in and of itself is simply an impossible scenario that is contradicted by much of the on-screen evidence.
Even if there would not be “money” in name, they trade shifts and “replicator rations” among one another, which thus become a form of currency.

The only time I really recall Replicator Rations was on Voyager when they could not use the Replicators much.

Zor

 

[trekshark]

Federation credits. For all the talk of no money tng made a point to mention federation credits as a currency that would be used to buy the rights to the barzan wormhole.

 

[kkt]

Federation credits. For all the talk of no money tng made a point to mention federation credits as a currency that would be used to buy the rights to the barzan wormhole.

They mentioned credits once or twice in the original series too. I don't think they explained whether they were Starfleet credits or Federation credits or what.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The only time I really recall Replicator Rations was on Voyager when they could not use the Replicators much.

Exactly. Replicator rations were invented by Janeway herself, so Voyager wouldn't run low on energy. There's no evidence they're used anywhere else.

 

[tomswift2002]

Federation credits. For all the talk of no money tng made a point to mention federation credits as a currency that would be used to buy the rights to the barzan wormhole.

In EAF Dr. Crusher charges a purchase to her personal account on the Enterprise.

 

[Jetboogieman]

I’ve typed and retyped my response to this and it always gets so complex because.... At the end of the day, the economics of the Star Trek universe are left intentionally vague and hinted at eternally complex.

There’s a million examples back and forth that hint at some form of exchange that allows people to “buy” food and drink and other services such as holosuite time at Quarks but at the end of the day, it’s left intentionally vague and unexplained because I suspect there’s simply no way to reconcile, especially since it is oftentimes replicated how any of this works in an economic sense.

There’s tons of references here and there even outside DS9.

“That suits me, I just bought a boat”

As an example, but DS9 is the only one that makes very specific references to currency, bank accounts, rent, electricity bills.

I’ve tried many times to not necessarily reconcile these ideas, but try to format some of the examples in a way that shows really, at the end of the day, none of it makes a lick of sense and that’s fine, I don’t think it’s something we have to get caught up on or worry about too much but yeah, in my mind, you just can’t reconcile how anything works because really, it’s not explained.

 

[Watersluis]

The only time I really recall Replicator Rations was on Voyager when they could not use the Replicators much.

Zor

They mentioned credits once or twice in the original series too. I don't think they explained whether they were Starfleet credits or Federation credits or what.

Benjamin Sisko mentions having used a month's worth of “transporter credit” at the academy to meet Joseph Sisko every day.

There are all sorts of not-entirely-liquid currencies used, that seem to also be tradable.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I just remembered something:

Federation credits MUST qualify as money, because we learn (in "The Escape Artist") that there was a bounty of 100,000 credits on Harry Mudd.

 

[Jetboogieman]

Benjamin Sisko mentions having used a month's worth of “transporter credit” at the academy to meet Joseph Sisko every day.

There are all sorts of not-entirely-liquid currencies used, that seem to also be tradable.

This is actually one of the possibly biggest clues as to exactly how things might work on a galactic or quadrant wide scale and it acknowledges that resources are to some extent “Finite”.

We also get a slight clue in Voyager when EMH holograms are being used to mine dilithium.

So, Latinum in and of itself becomes the de-facto currency of the galaxy because it cannot be replicated and it somewhat resembles the gold of old.

The United Federation of Planets largest geo-political (for lack of a better word) asset is due to its vast territory, it controls most of the Alpha Quadrants dilithium, it’s what powers the entire Federation economy and all its gadgets and gizmos but in order to keep the power useage relatively stable, it issues credits for certain public goods and services such as transporters, while incredible public transit probably exists to get you all over Earth as well, if everyone used transporters constantly to have breakfast in Croatia, lunch in Japan and dinner in South Africa, the grid would have trouble keeping up.

The Federation uses things like their vast dilithium reserves and other commodities within its territory to trade with other species such as the Ferengi in which they would also acquire and maintain their own latinum reserves in order to trade with other species for resources and items that they may need.

It is conceivable then in this scenario, that Starfleet Personnel, stationed in remote Locations such as DS9, where the economic ecosystem is not a more closed system like a Federation Starship, could be given an allowance of latinum due to the different circumstances.

That’s around my best guess for the nerdy exercise.

 

[Sisko_is_my_captain]

I think the Starfleet folks must get at least some kind of latinum allowance for non-Federation purchases, perhaps based on hours worked, performance bonuses - something. They can't possibly have an unlimited credit card though, so to speak, or they'd all be living like kings. Of course maybe there is a cultural aversion to filling your house with junk you bought or replicated. Maybe it's looked upon like something a child would do when their parents give them replicator privileges.

Miles once offered to buy a gift from Odo for Keiko.

 

[f14peter]

They mentioned credits once or twice in the original series too. I don't think they explained whether they were Starfleet credits or Federation credits or what.

They even go so far as to mention "money", literally in Errand of Mercy
KIRK (to Ayelborne): "The Federation has invested much money in our training. They're due for a small return."