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Microsoft's new "I'm a PC" ad

^All Apple do with their product line is make it simpler for people to choose. You want a simple home laptop ? There's the MacBook. Already got a monitor, keyboard and mouse ? MacMini.

A Mac will do exactly what you need it to do, and the chances are it will already be able to do it when you switch it on for the first time.

The problem for me is that I've never seen any figures to actually back this up. Yes, you hear about people having problems with their Vista machines but then there's also people experiencing problems with their Mac machines.

I think part of the preconception of Macs being better than PCs still stems from a few years ago.

Don't get me wrong. I certainly agree that Macs are good. But I think Vista machines are good as well. There really isn't that much of a difference IMHO.

Plus you've still got a substantially larger software library to choose from on the PC. Granted, that's because the user base is so huge, but there you are.


They're not saying much about OS X, but they're saying that Vista still has problems over a year later, they say it crashes, is loosing market share; implying that they don't and are therefore better. I get the stuff about it being the cool thing and such, they've built a good image for them self and are doing very well because of it.

I think one thing not to forget is that OS X IIRC had its own share of problems when it was first released despite the fact that the Mac is a far more closed system. Fact is, today's operating systems are very complex and will have problems somewhere along the line.

Don't get me wrong here: Although I use Vista every day and think it's a good OS, it's not the step forward I would have liked. They've made some improvements, no doubt (it's safer and more stable than XP, for example), but it could and should have been so much more.
However, I really don't think there's that much of a difference between it and OS X (which I've also used). OS X is sleeker and smarter in some parts of the UI but it's also less flexible in what it will let you do. Granted, this doesn't affect most users but some it will.

I'm not really sure about the market share. I know Vista wasn't doing as well in the beginning, and I know company's have been slow to adopt it. However, last time I checked, most new computers now ship with Vista, and companies have always been slow to upgrade for various reasons.
In any case, I think it's safe that the Mac's market share is still considerably smaller and will remain that way for the foreseeable future. As a consequence, I'm not really surprised that Apple 'attacks' Microsoft and not the other way around (granted, Zune vs. iPod is a different issue entirely :D).


But still, I've really never seen any thing at all from Microsoft that flat out says "this is why Vista is a good product and you should use it". Apple say "Vista crashes, has problems and is un-cool; but OS X is very cool and doesn't have those problems". Might not be 100% true, but it's far better than just saying "we're here and can work for many people".

Is it really such a bad idea for an advert that just tells me why a product is better than others?

I certainly see what you mean. And I think this is a general problem in Microsoft. They have so many really, really great products that suffer mostly from the fact that they're not marketed properly (Office Groove is one such example).
Still, I think it's possible to see a message in the new ad and a statement as to the quality of Windows Vista (albeit without comparing it to another): Everyone can use a PC (i.e. it's simple to use) for whatever they need to use it for (i.e. it's flexible). I don't know. Maybe that's too subliminal or maybe I'm reading in too much, but that's what I took away from it anyway.
Actually, the fact that the Windows ad references but doesn't mention Macs can be seen as a mesage in itself. They just don't need to.
 
Their fake Hodgeman isn't bad.

And anyway, this is the ad I've had in my mind ALL along. Show that EVERYONE, rich or poor, hipster douchebag or average nerd, uses a PC.
Hell, they even had a Justin Long lookalike to say he wears jeans.

That's just it, though. They're responding to a charge that no one made. When John Hodgeman says "I'm a PC," that is his literal meaning. He is the personification of the box on your desk. He doesn't say, "I'm a guy who uses a PC," he says he is a PC.

That is not the message which this ad challenges. It seems to be under the impression, despite the fact that the metaphor is delivered with a subtlety of a gold brick, the actors in the Mac ads represent users and not the machines themselves. Indeed, the ads are complete nonsense if you assume that the actors are intended to be typical users and not personifications of the computers in question.

The actors DO represent the users, regardless of how they position themselves. There was an early ad that tied Hodgeman's "business man" look to the fact that PCs are meant to be used as work as productivity machines. Even if there's no verbal cue in the newer ads, the visual metaphor is there. Why is Hodgeman costumed the way he is? Because he represents the workplace PC. Why do the costumers assume that workplace PCs could be represented by a guy with glasses in a suit? Because that's the first image that people associate with people who work in "workplaces". One wouldn't exist without the other.

It's same with Long as the Mac. It's how the PR firm wants Mac users to think of themselves, so Long dresses and acts the way he does. He is "literally" a Mac, but it's a form of reverse-personification based on an image that the firm wants to impress on Mac owners and potential Mac owners. Buy a Mac, be cool like this guy.

Simply imagine if the actor's roles were reversed. Would the ads even work then? I wouldn't think so.
 
^
I agree. People wouldn't be able to identify with the Apple ad if they didn't see themselves and other users reflected in the two characters.
 
Right. So technically they aren't literal representations of the users of PCs or Macs. But the PR agency wants you to associate those characters with those types of users. Do you want to be the sad, bumbling idiot man or the suave, cool guy who wears jeans? The actual content of the ads is almost peripheral, especially since they change so often. Indeed, the one message they want you to remember is the fact that Hodgeman in a business suit is emblematic of the PC and Long in "cool" clothes is what you associate with the Mac.

The point of this MS ad is simply to show that there are millions of alternative ways to represent the PC. The Mac ads choose the Hodgeman look because they feel that it is a negative representation of computer users - and sure, to a certain audience, that might be true. But there's no reason why you can't have a real life actress represent the essential "PC" experience, or a football player, or a geneticist, or some any number of people of different shapes and sizes. What the ad is trying to say is that there are countless ways to characterize a PC because there's no such thing as an essentialized PC "experience" as represented by the Hodgeman character.

I'm just watching it again and just listen to the first line: "I'm a PC and I've been made into a stereotype". That pretty much sets up the entire conceit of the ad. Any of the following people can be "PCs" too, it's just that it serves the Mac ad's PR firm to use the Hodgeman caricature for their own purposes.

Also, I just realized that I'm thinking about this way too much in order to avoid my own writing. :p
 
And to the poster above (sorry I'm lazy) who said the Mac ads aren't really saying anything about the product, that is flat out incorrect. Every single ad talks about a feature. Some very specific.
 
The problem for me is that I've never seen any figures to actually back this up. Yes, you hear about people having problems with their Vista machines but then there's also people experiencing problems with their Mac machines.

I think part of the preconception of Macs being better than PCs still stems from a few years ago.

This is nothing to do with reliability. It's about being able to use a Mac right out of the box. The things non-gaming consumers want to do with their computers they can do very quickly and easily within minutes of turning a new Mac on.

With Windows PCs, once you've gotten past the activation business you've still got to make sure that whoever threw it together bothered to install the drivers for everything you need.

Don't get me wrong. I certainly agree that Macs are good. But I think Vista machines are good as well. There really isn't that much of a difference IMHO.

Plus you've still got a substantially larger software library to choose from on the PC. Granted, that's because the user base is so huge, but there you are.

You have a large library of software to do exactly the same things. Fifty tools for the same job.
 
It's strange because I use XP at work and I have a Macbook Pro at home, and everything you've mentioned are why I like the Mac better. I find digging through all the menus cumbersome and I end up using the "quick launch" for all my applications to try and recreate the dock from my Mac.

I have Windows 2000 at work (because that's how cheap the state of TX is), and I use my Mac at home. My backup laptop here at home is XP. I've had my Mac for just over a week and the more I get used to it, the more I love it.
 

No big surprise there. I'm sure they commissioned an advertising agency which will have collaborated with a film company, photographers and what not. And Macs are FAR more widespread in those particular fields.


And to the poster above (sorry I'm lazy) who said the Mac ads aren't really saying anything about the product, that is flat out incorrect. Every single ad talks about a feature. Some very specific.

I assume you're referring to me. You're right, actually, they do point out individual features.

For example there's one about networking and connecting new devices. You can see the Apple and the PC guy holding hands, getting on great. Then this Asian woman (the new camera from Japan) takes the Apple guy's hand, and they understand each other perfectly whereas the PC understands nothing.

However, IMHO they're usually making relatively broad statements (which can also be applied to the PC in many cases) AND these statements really take a backseat compared to the lifestyle angle that is being sold. It's not about being able to do stuff, it's about being cool when you're doing stuff.


This is nothing to do with reliability. It's about being able to use a Mac right out of the box. The things non-gaming consumers want to do with their computers they can do very quickly and easily within minutes of turning a new Mac on.

With Windows PCs, once you've gotten past the activation business you've still got to make sure that whoever threw it together bothered to install the drivers for everything you need.

Ah, ok. I know what you're talking about.

I FULLY agree that the activation business is a royal pain in the ass. I think it's useless and something Microsoft as well as e.g. Adobe should get rid of as soon as possible.
Ironically, while you don't have to activate Macs Apple does require you to activate the iPhone if you want to be able to make real use of it.
So why doesn't Apple use this process on Macs? Well, the only thing I can figure is that - unlike Windows - every Mac sold means OS X sold as well anyway. You can't really cheat on them there, no matter how you look at it.

I also agree that drivers can be a problem. But that's squarely on the manufacturer of the hardware who's bundling it with Windows. In general, driver support for Vista has actually become very good.

But beyond that, what's there that you - if you're looking at the standard consumer - can do with an Apple that you can't do with a Vista machine out of the box?


Don't get me wrong. I certainly agree that Macs are good. But I think Vista machines are good as well. There really isn't that much of a difference IMHO.

Plus you've still got a substantially larger software library to choose from on the PC. Granted, that's because the user base is so huge, but there you are.

You have a large library of software to do exactly the same things. Fifty tools for the same job.

What's bad about having a choice?
 
But beyond that, what's there that you - if you're looking at the standard consumer - can do with an Apple that you can't do with a Vista machine out of the box?

Well, as Apple have said in their adds, we've got the whole iLife set of apps. Great ways to manage photos, edit home movies, burn them to a full feature DVD and create your own music. Even create your own website from these applications and they all work seamlessly together All easy, all simple.

But I've got no idea what you get out the box with Vista, it's not like MS have ever told me in an ad or anything. So from someone being told what there is, there's nothing on a Vista machine and something on the Mac that can be used by the everyday person.


Don't get me wrong. I certainly agree that Macs are good. But I think Vista machines are good as well. There really isn't that much of a difference IMHO.

What's bad about having a choice?
Find something that's good for your needs. Say I want a DVD burner, there's a crap ton of them out for Windows. Now as someone who has no idea about what's there, it'll take me ages to find something perfect for my needs. OS X having less software out there, means there'll be less to sort though and easier to get what I want. In theory.

It's not like there's no software for the Mac at all, just not as much crap. There's still the same number of good ones I'd say. Things like Disco, Pixelmator and Adium are really great apps, but it didn't take me long to find them. (I'm still looking for a burner for WinXP, so any recommendations would be nice.)
 
However, IMHO they're usually making relatively broad statements (which can also be applied to the PC in many cases) AND these statements really take a backseat compared to the lifestyle angle that is being sold. It's not about being able to do stuff, it's about being cool when you're doing stuff.

I respectfully disagree, friend. It's not about being cool. It's about being easy. The ads are not saying John H's character is a dork, so PC users are dorks, while Justin L's character is cool, so mac users are cool. Not all all.

They are saying PCs are the status quo, what everybody uses at work. By John H acting uptight, it is inferring that PC's have issues.

Frankly Justin Long is NOT COOL. Have you seen his parts in movies? He always plays a geek. Nobody wants to be Justin Long. If you think that, you are missing the point.

If they wanted to make the point you seem to think they want to make, then their ads would have like some movie star that everyone wants to be like. George Clooney or something.

Justin's character is easy going, he has no problem doing things. Heck, they're not even making the point that Mac's are well designed...if they did that he'd be better dressed. His character is a regular guy not having problems and using his computer and it's features with ease.

Another way to look at it is the dancing iPod ads...now THAT is an ad where they are saying "use this and you'll be cool"...they are definitely different than the PC/Mac ads.
 
Simply imagine if the actor's roles were reversed. Would the ads even work then? I wouldn't think so.

That's the wrong question. The right question is, imagine if the actors were replaced by animated computers like this one. The ads would indeed still work. Hell, they might work better, by removing a level of abstraction (though at the cost of the relatablity human actors get you). It'd certainly eliminate Microsoft's apparent confusion with the metaphor.

Would the Microsoft response work if all the characters were actual PCs? The image of a Dell sitting in the middle of a study saying in Deepak Chopra's voice, "I'm a PC and a human being," is not one I would call "compelling." In fact, it's total nonsense.
 
But beyond that, what's there that you - if you're looking at the standard consumer - can do with an Apple that you can't do with a Vista machine out of the box?

Well, as Apple have said in their adds, we've got the whole iLife set of apps. Great ways to manage photos, edit home movies, burn them to a full feature DVD and create your own music. Even create your own website from these applications and they all work seamlessly together All easy, all simple.

Interesting. I didn't know they bundled it with iLife. One question out of pure curiosity: If you publish your website through iLife, do you get to choose a provider or does Apple host this for you for free?


But I've got no idea what you get out the box with Vista, it's not like MS have ever told me in an ad or anything. So from someone being told what there is, there's nothing on a Vista machine and something on the Mac that can be used by the everyday person.

I see where you're coming from. And I certainly agree that Microsoft isn't doing its advertising very well.

Right out of the box, Vista doesn't come with a suite like iLife's. It basically offers you all the stuff that OS X does (email, browser, those kind of things), but only some of the things you'll get in the iLife suite (such as creating your own movies with Movie Maker or burning stuff to DVD). Depending on the Vista version (which is another gripe I have about Vista - there's too many versions and some that don't make much sense) you'll get a pretty good Media Center which will let you manage your movies, tv channels, pictures, etc.


Find something that's good for your needs. Say I want a DVD burner, there's a crap ton of them out for Windows. Now as someone who has no idea about what's there, it'll take me ages to find something perfect for my needs. OS X having less software out there, means there'll be less to sort though and easier to get what I want. In theory.

It's not like there's no software for the Mac at all, just not as much crap. There's still the same number of good ones I'd say. Things like Disco, Pixelmator and Adium are really great apps, but it didn't take me long to find them. (I'm still looking for a burner for WinXP, so any recommendations would be nice.)

I don't mean to say there's no choice on the Mac. Depending on the field you're looking at (e.g. music) the choice is actually bigger and better. It's just that I KNOW for a fact I'll get everything I need/want on the PC whereas I just can't be as sure on the Mac. Again, this is more or less grave depending on the area we're talking about.

I can see how having a smaller choice makes it easier. But that doesn't necessarily guarantee better quality. Hell, in East Germany you could choose from something like one or two different cars because there simply was no other choice. It was easy, but was it really desireable?

I know that's an exaggeration, but I'm just trying to make a point. Yes, it's harder to wade through all the nonsense, but, personally, I always prefer to be able to choose. And the internet can be a great help in finding the right stull.

As for a burner for XP I'd recommend Nero. It's pretty powerful, supports just about every DVD burner drive out there and gives you lots of options.


I respectfully disagree, friend. It's not about being cool. It's about being easy.

I will say this: You're right that it's about being easy. But (you knew there'd be a 'but' ;)) I'd say that one of the hallmarks of being cool as a person is doing things in a way that seems easy. If you do things with apparent ease, you're pretty likely to seem 'cool'.
And because they're using a person to represent the Mac (and by extension a Mac user), IMHO they are definitely (at the very least) adding a coolness angle.


Frankly Justin Long is NOT COOL. Have you seen his parts in movies? He always plays a geek. Nobody wants to be Justin Long. If you think that, you are missing the point.

I haven't seen any of his movies. I didn't even know he was an actor, actually.
He seems pretty 'cool' in the ads to me. There's nothing geeky about it. He's young, smooth talking, easily 'connects' with the beautiful, attractive model...


If they wanted to make the point you seem to think they want to make, then their ads would have like some movie star that everyone wants to be like. George Clooney or something.

See, I'm not sure that's true. I think Justin's character is one that potential Mac users will more easily relate to than superstars such as Clooney. They're more likely to be like the Justin's character than like Clooney. From their perspective it probably seems a whole lot more realistic that they might achieve that level of 'coolness' than Clooney's level.


Justin's character is easy going, he has no problem doing things. Heck, they're not even making the point that Mac's are well designed...if they did that he'd be better dressed. His character is a regular guy not having problems and using his computer and it's features with ease.

But the guy's pretty good looking, isn't he? And it's not like he's picked dreadful clothes or anything. Depending on the target group you're looking at (probably young, creative and well educated), that attire is pretty much on target, I think.
And, again, I think his coolness stems from doing the things with ease.


Another way to look at it is the dancing iPod ads...now THAT is an ad where they are saying "use this and you'll be cool"...they are definitely different than the PC/Mac ads.

Those are definitely playing on nothing BUT lifestyle, really :D.
 
Simply imagine if the actor's roles were reversed. Would the ads even work then? I wouldn't think so.

That's the wrong question. The right question is, imagine if the actors were replaced by animated computers like this one. The ads would indeed still work. Hell, they might work better, by removing a level of abstraction (though at the cost of the relatablity human actors get you).

I think it wouldn't really matter that much if you replaced them by animated computers. If you're going to animate a computer, you're starting to personify it. By extension, you're going to be giving it at least some human traits (Luxo Jr. is a great example of this and a very funny one at that).
If you're going to animate not only one but two computers that you want to compare, you'll essentially end up creating two different characters - one that people will want to relate to and another that people will want to distinguish themselves from.
In any case, I think viewers are going to find that one or the other somehow embodies them as users. Otherwise, I think, you're just not going to connect with people emotionally, which is what Apple is really doing (and doing rather successfully).
 
The ads are poor for a very simple reason.

The point of the Apple ads is this: Macs are special, PCs are generic and thus boring.

The problem with this Microsoft ad is that it responds to that message by AGREEING WITH IT! Apple says PCs are dull because they're everywhere, so Microsoft says "hey, we're everywhere!"

Not exactly a great retort.

John Gruber explains this better than I can, there's more on his blog there.

The bottom line is this: Apple's ads are aimed at Dell, not Microsoft. Want proof? Look for the multiple Mac ads that brag about being able to run MS Office on the Mac, or how Macs can run Windows. They brag about those as FEATURES of a Mac! Does that sound very Anti-Microsoft?

No, it's anti-Dell and anti-HP and anti-Gateway. THOSE computers can run Windows, but not OS X. They're generic, they're dull, they can't do as much. That's who should be responding to the ads.

The fact that Microsoft is fighting their battles for them is kind of lame. It's the equivalent of having your mom call the teacher to complain about a grade you got.
 
Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Sure I see there is merit to the point that they might be making mac "cool", even if I don't think that's the point....as far as Long's movies though, he was a geek in Galaxy Quest, he was a geek in Herbie Fully Loaded, he was a geek in Accepted and he was pretty much a geek on the TV show Ed.
 
John Gruber explains this better than I can, there's more on his blog there.

He makes great points in this article...this is what I was trying to say when I said John H's character was the status quo, what everybody had at work, etc.

I wonder how the ads would fare if the catchphrase was "I use windows" instead of "I'm a PC."

Heh. I'm a PC is just desperate. You just can't appear to be at the top of your game when you are on the defensive.
 
Heh. I'm a PC is just desperate. You just can't appear to be at the top of your game when you are on the defensive.

Right. They shouldn't be "responding" to anything. They should just be telling you what you can do with Windows. Plain and simple.

Microsoft should go and copy THESE Apple ads from the early 90's.

That's what Microsoft's message needs to be today: What can you do with Windows?

Imagine that ad with a Windows logo on the end. That would be the PERFECT "response" to negative Vista publicity.
 
Interesting. I didn't know they bundled it with iLife. One question out of pure curiosity: If you publish your website through iLife, do you get to choose a provider or does Apple host this for you for free?

You can host with anyone you want, just upload the files like normal. But you can go with Apple, I think it's with the "Mobile Me" thing they're doing. You get the nice integration with that. And it's not free, but it's really hassle free if you sign up for it. I've never looked into it much as it's not something I'd use.
 
The ads are poor for a very simple reason.

The point of the Apple ads is this: Macs are special, PCs are generic and thus boring.

The problem with this Microsoft ad is that it responds to that message by AGREEING WITH IT! Apple says PCs are dull because they're everywhere, so Microsoft says "hey, we're everywhere!"

I don't see where Apple says PCs are everywhere in its ads (which is why I don't see why the MS ad isn't supposed to work). It simply takes, quite literally, a PC and a Mac and juxtaposes them. The conclusion to every ad is:

- PCs are dull and boring (as you pointed out).
- Macs do everything PCs do, but they do it better or properly if you will (each ad focusses on a particular topic).


John Gruber explains this better than I can, there's more on his blog there.

I agree with his assessments to a point. Suffice it to say I think he's wrong when he says the MS ad is isn't "jaw-droppingly bad" and that they're reinforcing Apple's point (they're not IMHO).
The message I take from Microsoft's ad (and maybe it is just me) is that a PC (with Windows) will let you do whatever you need it to do. It is, quite literally, a Personal Computer. And as such, it's special. If not to anyone else then to you.
The Apple commercial points to individual things you can do with a Mac. The Microsoft commercial essentially says you can do whatever you like/need with it. To me that's spot on and one of the reasons I think PCs are really great.
You'll find PCs to do any job you need, you can even build them yourself if need be. And Windows (hence Microsoft) is providing the software basis to make this happen.


The bottom line is this: Apple's ads are aimed at Dell, not Microsoft. Want proof? Look for the multiple Mac ads that brag about being able to run MS Office on the Mac, or how Macs can run Windows. They brag about those as FEATURES of a Mac! Does that sound very Anti-Microsoft?

Well, Microsoft does own Apple shares IIRC, so... ;)

Setting that aside, it's a form of co-opetition (horrible "word", I know), I think. I think there's many people who've looked at Macs and thought, "Well, they're nice, but I'm used to Windows and that's where all may apps are." If you tell them, "Hey, you can run Windows on our machines!", that's a way of drawing them in, maybe getting to check out a Mac by buying one for your home.
To run Windows via Bootcamp (and please correct me if this is wrong) you have to have OS X installed. So chances are that these people will try out OS X. They'll find it looks nice, isn't as hard or different to use as they thought, maybe they'll even prefer it on a certain level and start using it more.
Then a bit of doubt might surface: "What about my office applications?" They'll probably remember MS Office for Mac (which is supposed to be really good btw.) and maybe give that a try. Next thing you know, you've got a new Mac OS X user. Let him run Microsoft Office. That's no big harm to Apple. New users might even give Apple's own Office suite a try and make a complete switch at some stage.
Really, Apple has nothing to lose by letting people run Windows on their computers, nothing at all. Because at the point where somebody is using Windows on a Mac, they'll already have bought a computer and an OS from Apple. The Windows license isn't really much of an issue then, is it?


No, it's anti-Dell and anti-HP and anti-Gateway. THOSE computers can run Windows, but not OS X. They're generic, they're dull, they can't do as much. That's who should be responding to the ads.

The fact that Microsoft is fighting their battles for them is kind of lame. It's the equivalent of having your mom call the teacher to complain about a grade you got.

I will say this: Many PC makers are pretty pathetic. I don't understand for the life of my why there isn't a single maker who even comes close to rivaling Apple's sense of style and design. Do all the world's designers work exclusively for Apple?!?
It's also pretty shameful how bad they can be at a) assembling useful configurations, b) offering useful software packes with the computers and c) providing proper drivers on time.
Microsoft is in a partnership with these guys. Whenever a new Windows OS is on the horizon, you can be sure there's lots of talks going on behind closed doors between the OS maker and the hardware makers.
So companies like Dell or Gateway should DEFINITELY be challenging Apple. But I don't see why Microsoft shouldn't as well since they are in a partnership.


Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Sure I see there is merit to the point that they might be making mac "cool", even if I don't think that's the point....as far as Long's movies though, he was a geek in Galaxy Quest, he was a geek in Herbie Fully Loaded, he was a geek in Accepted and he was pretty much a geek on the TV show Ed.

Now I remember him in Galaxy Quest! Yeah, he was a real geek (maybe even a dork :D) in that one.
I can certainly see how that might change the perception if he's kind of typecast in that way.


That's what Microsoft's message needs to be today: What can you do with Windows?

Now, I totally agree that this is something they should be doing, absolutely. And I really don't understand why they're not.
Honestly, I think Vista's a great OS. There's many good points you can make about it. I really don't understand why they don't.
On a certain level it's like they're buying into the negative press themselves.

I think there's a general problem at Microsoft. They're fighting wars on so many fronts, and I doubt there's one MS employee who has an overview of ALL the things they're involved in.
This results, among other things, in wacky labeling which just confuses customers and drives them away (Windows Live vs. Office Live for example).
It's pretty clear that somewhere in the future Windows and Microsoft Office just won't exist in the way they did today. More importantly, they won't sell in the way they did in the past.
I think they're still very much struggling, trying to find what they're place is really going to be.
My impression is that they really need to literally lose some weight and shape up. They need to drop some areas (Zune, anyone?) and focus more strongly on others (really cool enterprise apps like Groove e.g. that could easily be used beyond the enterprise).
And they badly need to regain some self confidence. They've got some great talent, they've got some great products, but they need to be better at selling them.
 
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