Michael Eddington

[Nightdiamond]

I liked Eddington because he had those interesting shades of grey to his character.

He was an a-hole though. Remember, he did set Kassidy Yates up to get caught and go to prison.

And the Borg thing-- if that's true, no wonder Sisko seemed to take it so personally.

I don't why, but his rant about the Federation was intriguing to listen to. We shouldn't be intrigued by it.

But we are. Maybe because we're not used to hearing any human character talk about the Federation like that.

The Federation was really going out of its way to help the Cardassians--and the Cardassians weren't exactly the most sympathetic people at this point.

In a way, you can see his point.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I liked Eddington. He was a very career-minded person, who had a different way of doing things and wasn't as touchy-feely as others in Starfleet, but given his role its understandable, he's there to keep people safe not win popularity contests. Characters like that always get a bad reputation, Nechayev is another--though for me she is my favourite admiral.

It was an interesting way they went with him, though I would've liked a few more epsiodes with him that showed his growing sympathy and then support for the Maquis. Also it would've been far more interesting if they'd left his fate a little shadowed, with the prospect of returning near the end, leading a ragtag band of Maquis survivors behind enemy lines--forcing him and Sisko to team up again.

 

[T'Girl]

oh, sorry, I wasn't aware the Federation forces planets to join against their will.

The United Federation of Planets is more like a fantastic credit card offer, it's only later that you discover that the Federation is selling your personal information.

 

[Sidewinder]

Speaking of lacking of developing characters, why did they just kill off Cal Hudson and have Eddington just tell Sisko about it? Seemed very anti-climactic to me.

 

[Kilana2]

I definitely prefer Eddington over Bareil.

 

[Leviathan]

I'm just pleased Sisko finally defeated that dude from Krull. Terrible movie...terrible...

 

[Cyke101]

And Eddington is full of seven shades of shit when he compares the Federation to the Borg - oh, sorry, I wasn't aware the Federation forces planets to join against their will. And when he said "No one leaves the Federation"? Like hell they don't! It's happened before - the Federation allows worlds to secede. So once again he's full of crap.

Just of curiosity, have we ever heard of a Federation world seceding?

(though I recognize your larger point, that the Federation allows it to begin with)

Ah, Eddington. The (IIRC) first canonical character we got that might actually have been Canadian... at the very least, his ancestors were strongly implied to be.

And then he turns out to be a traitor. Awesome.

Oh, so he's French-Canadian!

(kidding, kidding)

 

[Kilana2]

And Eddington is full of seven shades of shit when he compares the Federation to the Borg - oh, sorry, I wasn't aware the Federation forces planets to join against their will. And when he said "No one leaves the Federation"? Like hell they don't! It's happened before - the Federation allows worlds to secede. So once again he's full of crap.

Just of curiosity, have we ever heard of a Federation world seceding?

(though I recognize your larger point, that the Federation allows it to begin with)

There are examples to be found in the Litverse...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Cait, for example, has a habit of continually seceding and then rejoining later. They've done this several times, IIRC.

(Like a cat going out the cat door and then coming back in. )

 

[Timo]

OTOH, it seems Vulcans in the novels are always "considering" secession with emotional histrionics, and secretly giggling at everybody else panicking. (a Space Jews thing?)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Michael Eddington's delusions of grandeur helped lead a group of people who just wanted to defend their homes to annihilation.

 

[Timo]

...Aka relocation.

I wonder how many people really did Eddington's bidding. It's not as if he commanded hordes of troops or anything: he just conducted actions in the name of these colonists. Does that make him a "leader"?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Shatna]

OTOH, it seems Vulcans in the novels are always "considering" secession with emotional histrionics, and secretly giggling at everybody else panicking. (a Space Jews thing?)

Timo Saloniemi

This begs explanation, specifically the term "Space Jews". I'm leaning towards it not being terribly conducive to this or any other discussion (it might help if it made a lick of sense).

 

[Timo]

Oh, trust me, it's not antisemitic or any such nonsense. It's just a Hollywood thing - you know, Seinfeld and Northern Exposure and Futurama and such. You have odd histrionics, you live in the basement of your parents (but don't do Star Trek), you worship your mother, that's the stereotype. It's no more insensitive than making fun of Caitians and, necessarily, cat lovers.

But if it's not okay, then pretend I used some other racist stereotype that is the bread and butter of the entertainment industry. I mean, Star Trek itself certainly does. And it's definitely supposed to be a laughing-at-oneself thing in this context, Nimoy inserting Jewish in-jokes into his character and all.

...Okay, this probably isn't getting through. So which other stereotype could one use for the guilt trip thing the Vulcans are doing when talking secession?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Shatna]

Oh, trust me, it's not antisemitic or any such nonsense. It's just a Hollywood thing - you know, Seinfeld and Northern Exposure and Futurama and such. You have odd histrionics, you live in the basement of your parents (but don't do Star Trek), you worship your mother, that's the stereotype. It's no more insensitive than making fun of Caitians and, necessarily, cat lovers.

But if it's not okay, then pretend I used some other racist stereotype that is the bread and butter of the entertainment industry. I mean, Star Trek itself certainly does. And it's definitely supposed to be a laughing-at-oneself thing in this context, Nimoy inserting Jewish in-jokes into his character and all.

...Okay, this probably isn't getting through. So which other stereotype could one use for the guilt trip thing the Vulcans are doing when talking secession?

Timo Saloniemi

Well, you're right about one thing: I'm not at all convinced by your rather convoluted explanation, so I would prefer terms like "Space Jews" not be used in this forum ever, which is a polite way of saying "knock it off". Chief among reasons is that while you clearly believe your usage is legitimate, it remains a weird and unsupported thing to say, and not everyone is going to see it the way you do. To put it another way: I don't think that term means what you think it means.

As to what other stereotypes you might use, my answer is "none", and that commenting on any guilt trips laid on by Vulcans can be characterized exactly in those terms, and your point is still made.

Please note that this ends any more discussion of this topic on this forum. You may continue if you wish via PM, but Shatna Has Ruled.

 

[Shatna]

To clarify: this ends discussion of my and Timo's topic, not the entire discussion itself.

 

[Timo]

Yup, got that.

It's still a terminology minefield in the sense that Eddington=Maquis=libertarian politics. His propagandist agitation may sound hollow, but as far as we can tell, he is being factual about nobody ever leaving the UFP.

It might be his own perverted interpretation that this is because the UFP stops secession by force. But it might also be him twisting the actual UFP practice of always bending over backwards to stop members from considering secession. The UFP is accommodating, and is seldom if ever shown taking any sort of action against a member planet, even when those are revealed to be engaged in shady or downright evil activities. Perhaps there are famous cases of the UFP fighting secession by being nice, and in Eddington's black-is-white world, this equates the UFP with the Borg.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kilana2]

I liked Eddington. He was a very career-minded person, who had a different way of doing things and wasn't as touchy-feely as others in Starfleet, but given his role its understandable, he's there to keep people safe not win popularity contests. Characters like that always get a bad reputation, Nechayev is another--though for me she is my favourite admiral.

It was an interesting way they went with him, though I would've liked a few more epsiodes with him that showed his growing sympathy and then support for the Maquis. Also it would've been far more interesting if they'd left his fate a little shadowed, with the prospect of returning near the end, leading a ragtag band of Maquis survivors behind enemy lines--forcing him and Sisko to team up again.

I was a little saddened when Eddington was finally killed off. Thank God there is the Mirror Universe. But he was never seen on screen again. Come to think of it. I will move now to another thread.....

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It might be his own perverted interpretation that this is because the UFP stops secession by force. But it might also be him twisting the actual UFP practice of always bending over backwards to stop members from considering secession.

Perhaps, but he's still wrong. The Federation has the absolute right to make its case, so to speak.

To point out the benefits that a world will enjoy if it joins, or that an existing member will lose if it secedes, is not using force.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Eddington believed that everybody who followed the Federation was just brainwashed, and the colonists and only the colonists knew the proper way to live. In his mind, the Federation stopped you from seceding by ideological force more than by physical force.

But if the Maquis had taken Quark's advice instead of Eddington's, they could have come to an agreement and might not have been Dominion priority after the deal was signed.