MeTV's SuperSci-Fi Saturday Night

[Peach Wookiee]

I have to admit chuckling, currently watching this episode. It's amusing knowing that Gul Dukat is going to get the crap beat out of him by an angry Orion.
ETA: I wonder if someone slipped Alice something....

 

[publiusr]

And he was the voice of the Parasite on Superman: TAS. So the Hulk fought a DC supervillain!

He would have done better as the Parasite instead of a human or replicant.

With a good bit of the Very Special episodes out of the way--we will see some higher concept episodes that are stronger.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I find it odd that David recognizes Alice if he hasn't seen her since she was so young that she was played by a different actress...and yet she doesn't recognize him, even though he's got the same name, is quoting Lewis Carroll, and is being played by the same actor.

She was a child who last saw David in the center of tragedy. Since it was established that she became a troubled teen, I'm guessing the last thing she would remember is a man she has not set eyes on in what appears to be a decade.

I see what you did there.

I couldn't find any hard information about the actress, who has a fairly short list of credits on IMDb...but I couldn't believe that they tried to pass her off as 26-looking-like-35. I'd say she might have been able to pass for 35-looking-like-somewhere-in-her-40s.

Yes, she was worn out--but that served the idea of alcoholism wearing on her to the point where she looks older.

Alice having hallucinations babbling about, among other things, the White Rabbit...couldn't help but make me think of:

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Sounds like she's reading it off a pamphlet. But that's episodic television, I guess...or after-school specials.

Perhaps she could have pulled that off with a bit more life experience. Few actors not acquainted with addiction sell it at a 100% level of success. By life experience, I mean age, not alcoholism.

It looks like they were trying to reign in the Hulk's fright wig, and got him looking a little too neat.

You noticed that, too. The Hulk would go through several wigs over the course of the series, but this one seems to try to match the part in David's hair, instead of the hair just going everywhere (like the pilot and 2nd movie).

And once again the Lonely Man scene has David dressed for different weather...from shirt sleeves to turtleneck and peacoat. In fact, the LM scene looked so familiar that I digged into past episodes. Seems it was a reuse of the one from "Earthquakes Happen".

I believe the peacoat stock shot will be used again in season 3.

They weren't dead yet...most of their early top 20 singles fell between 1975 and 1977, with another on the way in '79.

Eh, but by the time KISS' undeservedly inflated ego entered the solo record (while still a group) phase in '78 (I made the mistake of buying the Ace Frehley album...oh, I really paid for that!) that shined a light on how they were more image than decent content.

The actor playing Louie reminded me a bit of a young Mark Hamill.

Jason Kinckaid? Not even close.

You can pursue something as part of your job and still have nightmares about it. Work-related nightmares are pretty common, I'd think. I'm more curious to know who it was that McGee talked to. Or was he just saying that to try to coax a witness into talking to him?

But McGee--up to this point--does not seem to have anything other than "the biggest story of the 20th century" angle in his pursuit of the Hulk. That's not necessarily the kind of thing that inspires nightmares. If he actually mentioned (for example) feeling guilt over not being able to help Banner and Marks, that would make more sense and support the idea of Hulk-related nightmares--a kind of survivor's guilt.

And he was the voice of the Parasite on Superman: TAS. So the Hulk fought a DC supervillain!

Yeah, that's right!

 

[Christopher]

She was a child who last saw David in the center of tragedy. Since it was established that she became a troubled teen, I'm guessing the last thing she would remember is a man she has not set eyes on in what appears to be a decade.

Except that she still remembers the text of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland by heart and is quick to quote it within moments after first talking to David. So she clearly does have a strong memory of that part of her life. Why would she be so attached to her memory of the book, yet not remember the godfather who read it to her? She doesn't seem to be face blind, to have trouble recognizing people on sight. At the very least, there should've been a bit where she said "You know, you remind me a lot of this guy I used to know." But it wasn't even addressed.

But McGee--up to this point--does not seem to have anything other than "the biggest story of the 20th century" angle in his pursuit of the Hulk. That's not necessarily the kind of thing that inspires nightmares. If he actually mentioned (for example) feeling guilt over not being able to help Banner and Marks, that would make more sense and support the idea of Hulk-related nightmares--a kind of survivor's guilt.

Nightmares are usually about fear, not guilt. The Hulk is a big, angry, scary monster with incredible destructive power. McGee believes he's a killer. Naturally McGee would be afraid of being attacked and killed by the Hulk. I don't know why you think that wouldn't be enough to cause nightmares. I used to have frequent nightmares about tornadoes, but I never had any guilt associated with tornadoes, just fear. The Hulk is a destructive force of nature, like a tornado. Anyone who frequently came close to something like that would naturally be scared of it, and nightmares are a natural result of that.

 

[MANT!]

Always enjoyed TIH growing up..but towards the end, it became more of the Hulk-Out ex Machina as the Hulk-Outs just seemed to solve the basic problem through applied violence...where in the early seasons, the problems were often made WORSE by the Hulk..and David would solve the problem in spite of the Hulk-Outs

 

[The Old Mixer]

In Alice's defense, Flashback David should have had The Courtship of Eddie's Father-era hair.

 

[Christopher]

Always enjoyed TIH growing up..but towards the end, it became more of the Hulk-Out ex Machina as the Hulk-Outs just seemed to solve the basic problem through applied violence...where in the early seasons, the problems were often made WORSE by the Hulk..and David would solve the problem in spite of the Hulk-Outs

Honestly, I can't think of many instances where the Hulk-out made things worse, except the climax of "747," maybe. I don't count the climax of "Never Give a Trucker an Even Break," because Hulking out didn't seem to have a material effect on David's control of the car even though it really, really should have. I guess there's the quicksand scene in "A Death in the Family." But usually, all along, the Hulk-outs were how the problems were solved. The Hulk would be instinctively driven to save whoever David wanted to save and to stop whoever David wanted to stop. And fragile vials of medicine or important documents would somehow survive being in the Hulk's pockets, none the worse for wear afterward.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Except that she still remembers the text of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland by heart and is quick to quote it within moments after first talking to David. So she clearly does have a strong memory of that part of her life. Why would she be so attached to her memory of the book, yet not remember the godfather who read it to her? She doesn't seem to be face blind, to have trouble recognizing people on sight. At the very least, there should've been a bit where she said "You know, you remind me a lot of this guy I used to know." But it wasn't even addressed.

Perhaps the Alice stories ultimately meant more to her than any one person. Its a rather engaging fantasy, and for a child in the grip of tragedy, fantasy can take on a greater personal meaning even over real relationships. Even in her hallucinations, she could not separate her father from images from the Alice stories.

Nightmares are usually about fear, not guilt. The Hulk is a big, angry, scary monster with incredible destructive power. McGee believes he's a killer. Naturally McGee would be afraid of being attacked and killed by the Hulk. I don't know why you think that wouldn't be enough to cause nightmares

Because McGee is not that afraid of the Hulk. He actively chases after the super-powered creature he believes to be a killer. If one is truly afraid of something--or someone (particularly someone thought to be a killer), he's not going to chase him to the point of several face-to-face encounters (over the course of the series). Further, as a witness to the lab explosion, and McGee trying to run toward the building--calling for Banner, but (in his mind) failing to help, that would cause a sense of survivor's guilt, which can haunt a person and certainly inspire nightmares.

 

[Christopher]

Perhaps the Alice stories ultimately meant more to her than any one person. Its a rather engaging fantasy, and for a child in the grip of tragedy, fantasy can take on a greater personal meaning even over real relationships. Even in her hallucinations, she could not separate her father from images from the Alice stories.

Or, more likely, it's just a gaping plot hole in a weakly written episode. Like a number of Hulk episodes, this feels like it was a generic script that could've been sold to any number of shows but got bought by this one and thus got rewritten to fit its premise. I gather that happened a lot in TV from the '60s to the '80s. In another show, Alice might have remembered her childhood benefactor, but this show required David to maintain his anonymity (except when he didn't), so they arbitrarily had Alice fail to remember him (and arbitrarily failed to explain what David's plan was when he called his old friend's wife).

Because McGee is not that afraid of the Hulk. He actively chases after the super-powered creature he believes to be a killer. If one is truly afraid of something--or someone (particularly someone thought to be a killer), he's not going to chase him to the point of several face-to-face encounters (over the course of the series).

You're either misunderstanding fear or misunderstanding professionalism. Lots of people choose to face danger in their jobs -- firefighters, storm chasers, US Marshals, animal control officers, epidemiologists -- and if they have any sanity or competence at all, then they have a healthy fear of the dangerous things they face. Fear is a necessary survival mechanism and a valuable impulse to listen to when undertaking a dangerous task, as long as you don't let it control you. (To quote Doctor Who, "Courage is being afraid but doing what you have to do anyway.") But in your sleep, in your subconscious, those fears that you manage on the job are free to break loose. I have no doubt that firefighters have nightmares about fire and tornado chasers have nightmares about tornadoes, at least when they're starting out.

Heck, we don't even have to limit ourselves to such unfamiliar examples. We've all had anxiety nightmares about failing to study for an exam at school, or being humiliated in front of other students. Going to school is full of fears and anxieties for most any child, and there are many common nightmares that result from those fears. But we still go to school and face those fears, because facing fears is the only way to have a life.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Or, more likely, it's just a gaping plot hole in a weakly written episode. Like a number of Hulk episodes, this feels like it was a generic script that could've been sold to any number of shows but got bought by this one and thus got rewritten to fit its premise. I gather that happened a lot in TV from the '60s to the '80s.

Oh, plots are still being recylced over and over again. I could not begin to count how many Grey's Anatomy scripts were borrowed from a drama (E/R) and even a medial sitcom (Scrubs--something the comedy even acknowledged in a stab at GA).

In another show, Alice might have remembered her childhood benefactor, but this show required David to maintain his anonymity (except when he didn't), so they arbitrarily had Alice fail to remember him (and arbitrarily failed to explain what David's plan was when he called his old friend's wife).

Since David never revealed his true identity to Alice, it stands to reason that the call to her mother would have been in the form of a "concerned stranger." With her mother already knowing Alice is a runaway, she would not take the call as a hoax, even if the caller never identified himself.

You're either misunderstanding fear or misunderstanding professionalism. Lots of people choose to face danger in their jobs -- firefighters, storm chasers, US Marshals, animal control officers, epidemiologists -- and if they have any sanity or competence at all, then they have a healthy fear of the dangerous things they face.

I understand both. Professionalism and a fear based on some related danger does not mirror the in-series reactions of McGee that would support his having nightmares. Do not forget, this is a man who...

• was seconds away from being killed by an organized crime group in "The Hulk Breaks Las Vegas," and he never expressed lingering fears or nightmares about that. In reality, exposing organized crime (particularly if leads to prosecution) places you on a very dangerous list, one where your new enemies may exercise the option of killing you if considered necessary, and you will never know if and when its coming. That is a job-related fear--but McGee never said anything about that truly dangerous situation troubling him.
• In the same episode, he is face to face with the Hulk--not an ounce of fear, but attempting to reason and question him.

Further, you are disregarding what the character has experienced in-series; as mentioned earlier, the most likely reason McGee would have nightmares about the Hulk is not rooted in the alleged inherent danger of his career (never explored up to this point in the series), but in an event that in real life, is known to cause nightmares--the survivor's guilt over failing to save someone's life. McGee not only failed to save Banner from the lab fire, he also watched the Hulk carry Marks off into the woods--and he--at ground zero of the entire event, could do nothing except watch helplessly. That has endless real world parallels (everything except the fantasy creature part) that are known to trigger months, even years of nightmares requiring professional help.

There's not much room for theory when you have McGee's major in-series experience--a tragedy far more likely to cause Hulk-related nightmares, but at the same time, his not having any residual emotional trauma from being pursued, captured & nearly killed by the mob (which--in reality--has no real end--there's always a replacement who picks up where others left off), then one can conclude that the inherent dangers of a job are not the source of his bad dreams.

 

[Christopher]

Since David never revealed his true identity to Alice, it stands to reason that the call to her mother would have been in the form of a "concerned stranger." With her mother already knowing Alice is a runaway, she would not take the call as a hoax, even if the caller never identified himself.

Here's the thing, though: People can recognize other people's voices. It doesn't make sense to just assume she wouldn't have recognized an old friend's voice over the phone, any more than it makes sense to assume Alice wouldn't have recognized David's face and voice. The point is, what if she had recognized his voice? What did he intend to do in the event that that happened? Would he have denied being David Banner, or would he have confessed it? Given the risk of recognition, would he even have attempted a direct phone contact at all, rather than writing a letter? The episode didn't even acknowledge the concern, which is the problem. It ignored the possibility that people who had been close to David in the past even could recognize him. And that was a flaw in the writing. You can try to make excuses for why they didn't recognize him, but the point is that they could have, and that a more honestly or attentively written script would have shown David being aware of the risk of recognition rather than just ignoring it.

I understand both. Professionalism and a fear based on some related danger does not mirror the in-series reactions of McGee that would support his having nightmares. Do not forget, this is a man who...

• was seconds away from being killed by an organized crime group in "The Hulk Breaks Las Vegas," and he never expressed lingering fears or nightmares about that. In reality, exposing organized crime (particularly if leads to prosecution) places you on a very dangerous list, one where your new enemies may exercise the option of killing you if considered necessary, and you will never know if and when its coming. That is a job-related fear--but McGee never said anything about that truly dangerous situation troubling him.
• In the same episode, he is face to face with the Hulk--not an ounce of fear, but attempting to reason and question him.

It is a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature to assume that anyone who feels fear would openly panic and flee and that anyone who remains calm and controlled is devoid of fear. That's not how it works. You manage and contain the fear on the job, but when you're asleep, you have no control over it.

Further, you are disregarding what the character has experienced in-series; as mentioned earlier, the most likely reason McGee would have nightmares about the Hulk is not rooted in the alleged inherent danger of his career (never explored up to this point in the series), but in an event that in real life, is known to cause nightmares--the survivor's guilt over failing to save someone's life. McGee not only failed to save Banner from the lab fire, he also watched the Hulk carry Marks off into the woods--and he--at ground zero of the entire event, could do nothing except watch helplessly. That has endless real world parallels (everything except the fantasy creature part) that are known to trigger months, even years of nightmares requiring professional help.

Wait a minute, wait a minute. Before I thought you were saying that there was no reason for McGee to have nightmares at all. I was trying to argue that it was plausible for him to have nightmares. If you're now saying that you agree it was plausible for him to have nightmares, then we're on the same page and there's no reason to quibble over the exact cause of those nightmares.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Here's the thing, though: People can recognize other people's voices. It doesn't make sense to just assume she wouldn't have recognized an old friend's voice over the phone, any more than it makes sense to assume Alice wouldn't have recognized David's face and voice. The point is, what if she had recognized his voice? What did he intend to do in the event that that happened? Would he have denied being David Banner, or would he have confessed it?

A faceless voice offers the ability to deny charges or answering uncomfortable questions. What would her mother do? Waste time questioning the identity of the faceless voice, or accept his information about her runaway daughter? While she's trying to ID the voice as someone she's accepted as dead, Alice could be on the edge of doing herself in. Not much of an option.
.

It is a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature to assume that anyone who feels fear would openly panic and flee and that anyone who remains calm and controlled is devoid of fear. That's not how it works. You manage and contain the fear on the job, but when you're asleep, you have no control over it.

No. it is a rather gross misunderstanding of how humans react to a kind of tragedy that leads to survivor's guilt--the one tangible experience in McGee's Hulk encounters that run the high risk of triggering nightmares. Admittedly, i've dealt with it personally, so I'm quite familiar with how that process unfolds, then evolves, which is why his "nightmare" dialogue immediately pointed to specific events from the pilot. Further, there is no hidden meaning to McGee's "nightmare" comment, which can only be accurately judged through the lens of his on-screen experiences up to that time.

It is beyond stretching an unsubstantiated assumption to think he's having nightmares about the Hulk based on inherent dangers of the job, yet defeat that belief by not admitting that his only true, job-related, life-threatening situation presented on screen (the mob) somehow had no effect on him. Even a TV fantasy cannot create an argument where that works as remotely believable.

Wait a minute, wait a minute. Before I thought you were saying that there was no reason for McGee to have nightmares at all. I was trying to argue that it was plausible for him to have nightmares. If you're now saying that you agree it was plausible for him to have nightmares, then we're on the same page and there's no reason to quibble over the exact cause of those nightmares.

Recall the initial idea about one part of the pilot finale as a source:

His dreams cannot be about the his role in the death of Elaina Marks (which brought the Hulk out in the incident), since he had no idea he spilled the explosive chemicals.

Thinking about the series up to this point, I had to go beyond McGee simply not knowing he started the chemical reaction--obviously (as I pointed out) that could not be a source, but he does remember his attempt to go after Banner and fail to help / watch the Hulk carry Marks into the woods. In other words, one can accept that he does not know what the audience does, but he certainly knows he was powerless to help Banner from being "killed" by the Hulk/burning alive.To anyone ever experiencing death firsthand--specifically one that could not be prevented by others, nightmares follow often. Some resort to a state of denial, anger, or blocking out their involvement, but survivor's guilt is a very real consequence for many, and I see that as the only reasonable Hulk-inspired night mare McGee would suffer through.

 

[Christopher]

A faceless voice offers the ability to deny charges or answering uncomfortable questions. What would her mother do? Waste time questioning the identity of the faceless voice, or accept his information about her runaway daughter? While she's trying to ID the voice as someone she's accepted as dead, Alice could be on the edge of doing herself in. Not much of an option.

You're still not getting my point. I'm not denying that it's theoretically possible that she wouldn't have recognized his voice. I'm saying that it was unrealistic to write David's actions as if that weren't even a possibility worth considering. If you were a man on the run, wanted for a murder you didn't commit and having to let the world think you were dead, and you found yourself face-to-face with someone who'd known you personally, wouldn't you at least be concerned that she might recognize you? Wouldn't you at least hesitate before attempting to call up an old friend? It should go without saying that that's a reckless thing to do if you're trying to keep your true identity hidden.

I mean, we'll see later that David hasn't even contacted his family to let them know he's alive. So obviously he is aware of the risk of being recognized and has reason to avoid contact with people who knew him. So his behavior here is out of character and illogical. At the very least, they should've shown him wrestling with the risk of recognition before deciding to make contact anyway. That would've made him more heroic and selfless. But the script and direction totally ignored the issue of recognition. They didn't even pay lip service to it.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I'm not denying that it's theoretically possible that she wouldn't have recognized his voice. I'm saying that it was unrealistic to write David's actions as if that weren't even a possibility worth considering. If you were a man on the run, wanted for a murder you didn't commit and having to let the world think you were dead, and you found yourself face-to-face with someone who'd known you personally, wouldn't you at least be concerned that she might recognize you?

He believed Alice was in a critical situation, so his first, natural instinct was to contact her mother, and hope the focus would be on Alice, not his ID. Additionally, you must remember that Alice's mother had long accepted an official fact: David Banner was dead. Even if his voice was familiar, her mind would not immediately leap to, "your voice sounds like my dead friend David Banner. Wait a minute--David, is that you?" since the mind does not leap to wild theories of people returning from the dead.

Wouldn't you at least hesitate before attempting to call up an old friend? It should go without saying that that's a reckless thing to do if you're trying to keep your true identity hidden.

Not if I just recognized a young friend in an obviously dangerous situation (underage, drunk). He's acting on his natural instinct, but he willing to take a certain amount of chances. Remember, he's risked more in Vegas calling--of all people--McGee (who thought David's voice was familiar, considering he was the last person to hear/talk to "David Banner" before his death), only mere months after the events of the pilot, than Alice's mother.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Here's a kookier thought, though it still would have been a problematic situation--Given that Alice's mom was out and about jetsetting or whatever she was doing, and David clearly hadn't had contact with this family since Ted died...is it possible that the mom didn't even know David was supposed to be dead?

"Oh, yeah, I'm doing fine, but, um, don't tell anyone I called you, okay?"

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

"Killer Instinct"--

David Burnett is working as an assistant trainer at the camp of the football team the Los Angeles Cougars. During scrimmage, star player John Tobey is too aggressive in his blocking, causing friction when he cracks the ribs of fellow player Kurt Donahue. While this is going on, Dr. Byron Stewart observes, shooting pictures of Tobey's actions/behavior. Tobey notes the team being close to the playoffs as the reason he's so intense during practice.

At an unnamed medical plaza, David drops off some team reports, then speaks to Dr. Byron Stewart about his research on aggression in football players; David reveals he's read Byron's books on the subject, quoting a line of interest:

"The seeds of aggression lie deep in the subconscious mind--aggressive behavior is nothing more than an acting out of those subconscious thoughts."

Byron is impressed, but others have said the same..including David Banner.

David: "But Banner was talking about strength, not aggression--the ability to find a well of hidden strength at a moment of crisis."

Byron criticizes Banner's theories, saying:

Byron: "Perhaps Dr. Banner failed to see that the source---that hidden well, is the same for both things."

Byron agrees to let David sit in on John Tobey's upcoming hypnotherapy sessions with Dr. Byron.
Later, Tobey invites David to dinner, and talks about his past, and his interest in miniature soldier dioramas (a hobby started by his taskmaster father). Teammate Tony Bowers reads The National Register (what else?), which asks if Tobey is the hardest hitting--or dirtiest player. Bowers thinks the negative publicity is good for the team, but Tobey's wife June is disturbed by the article.

June tells David that the article is not entirely incorrect--Tobey is playing differently--"turning mean" when he was not like that in the past.

At Bryon's hypnotherapy session with Tobey (where Tobey reverts to his childhood), Byron explains (to David) that the session takes Tobey back to the earliest point of his anger and aggression that now is a major part of his life.

At the Los Angeles Colosseum, David and Byron discuss his therapy--

David: "I've had some experience with hypnotherapy. Potentially, it's very dangerous."
Byron: "Yes, of course, but nevertheless, the aggression is there--we know that. The point is--is that we
must isolate it...then, maybe we can learn to control it. Perhaps someday in everyone."
David: "How?"
Byron: "I don't know...yet. That's exactly what I'm trying to find out. Perhaps by altering the memory."
Byron: "We call it the Colosseum. Every Sunday, they come out here and gear themselves to hit other human beings as hard as they possibly can, and 75,000 people come here to cheer them on. It's all out aggression-- except when the whistle blows, they turn it off...just like that."
David: "Anger and control...in the same moment."
Byron: "Exactly. We all have it in us, David, to varying degrees. When we need to be angry, or tough, or aggressive, we somehow reach into our subconscious, and come up with just the right amount, and the shut the rest off..hopefully. But if we don't...if we cross over that line, isn't that what abnormally aggressive behavior is all about? If you bring up just that one, bucketful of anger, and suddenly, you can't seem to stop it, then. You know what I mean?"
David: "Oh, yes. I know exactly what you mean."

At a game, Tobey is cheered on, as he physically punishes the other team....

Elsewhere at the training facility, a worried June tells David that Tobey is worse than ever before--any little thing sets him off. She asks David--as Tobey's friend--to talk to Tobey (Byron would just assure her that everything's alright), because David has seen both sides. David is reluctant to get involved, but June insists, as she thinks that somehow, David understands what's happening to Tobey.

At another session, Tobey reverts to childhood again, talking about his father's ideas on winning, cheating, and being a man by accepting cheaters--a character trait Tobey hates with a disturbing level of anger.

Another game is held, but Tobey is kicked out for violence, screaming about cheaters. In the locker room, David watches Tobey pummel a pillar, still ranting about hating cheaters.

David confronts Dr. Stewart--

David: "What I saw was irrational, doctor! The man thought that he had been cheated--he didn't know where he was, or what he was doing!"
Byron: "David, you are not a doctor, and if you were a professional, you would realize that you can't be sure of anything you think happened!"
David: "Did you see what he did to Kermit Connely--now we're not just talking about a hard-hitting football game!"
Byron: "Alright. What is it that you want me to do?"
David: "Well, I think we ought to talk to Coach Haggerty."
Byron: "Coach Haggerty--and what would I say?"
David: "That John Tobey is a threat to his teammates, that he's lost all control."

...in the waiting area, two of Tobey's teammates listen to the conversation, exchanging glances...

Byron: "I see. Suggest that he bench John Tobey--in the middle of the playoffs--for the first time in his career, because one assistant trainer thinks he's playing too rough."
David: "Alright..then bench him long enough for you to have a talk with him."
Byron: "David, I have been talking to him for months, remember? Now I'm not going to put my professional reputation on the line unless I have something a little more solid than your opinion! Now if you'll excuse me, I have a session to conduct!"

In the Cougars' locker room, Bowers and another player (who overheard David & Byron) harass David, snapping towels at him, then force him into a steam room, turning the thermostat up, which triggers a Hulk-out. The Hulk breaks out of the steam room, attacking the players; one cowers in fear, while Bowers runs off, only escaping thanks to the Hulk seeing his own reflection in a mirror. In a revealing moment, the Hulk is enraged at his image, and tosses a metal locker at the mirror, shattering it.

In the aftermath of the Hulk-out, David (note he shakes his head in a negative manner) helps clean up the locker room. Bowers and the other player tell the coach about the Hulk, but the angry, disbelieving coach tells them to "stop taking what you're taking, before the commissioner's office get wind of it!" The players walk off, but not before throwing a suspicious look at David. Byron arrives on the scene, shocked at a cracked helmet, but David pressures him to make Tobey an official patient. Byron argues that Tobey--and the team will not accept Tobey removed from the playoffs, flatly refusing to take David's advice.

Tobey visits the player he injured--Kermit Connely--apologizing for the broken foot, but Kermit accuses Tobey of being a violent, dirty player. Outside, David speaks to Tobey, with the latter not knowing why he was so filled with anger. David tells him he's suffering from transference reaction, which can be treated--if Tobey takes time off--a suggestion shooting the player's temper up.

David: "John, you have lost the ability to distinguish between anger you felt in the past, and the present--between what is real and what is not!!"
Tobey: "Shut up!! I told you--I don't want to hear this!!"
David: "I'm trying to tell this to you as your friend!"
Tobey: "I've got all the friends I need!! 75,000 of them, every Sunday--75,000 friends yelling 'Tobey! Tobey! TOBEY!!!'"

Later, Tobey gathers his miniature military figures, and goes to the Colosseum, positioning the figures in game formations. David calls June:

David: "June..June he needs help.Now we have to find some way to convince him of that."
June: "How?"
David: "I don't know--but there has to be a way."
June: "I can't get through to him! Not like his father could...I'm losing him, David! There's nothing tangible I can hold on to.! You're the only other one who cares that something's wrong.If you don't help us, no one will."
David: "I'll try."

David deduces that Tobey's aggression regarding cheaters started with his father teaching him football as a child, but Byron's therapy simply uncorked that longtime rage, with Tobey aiming at everyone, not just opposing teams. Byron initially balks at David's theory, and refuses to talk to David. David presses, warning Byron that Tobey might end up killing someone when he's in that zone. David challenges Byron--zeroing in on a possible financial angle--

David: "How much is your grant, doctor. 50..100 thousand dollars? Are you afraid that you're going to lose your funding if somebody finds out that one of your subjects cracked up--because of your research, and you did absolutely nothing to stop it?"
Byron: "...and if I was to do as you say, if i stand up before the world and tell them that I've done something wrong and then nothing happens.. The grant was for 225 thousand dollars!! And it took five years of MY LIFE to accomplish it!! Do you have any idea what that means?!?"
David: "What will it mean if John Tobey kills somebody today?"

The biggest playoff game arrives, and Bowers (still frustrated) quickly leaves the locker room. The coach--pissed off that David did not get several footballs autographed--orders his assistant to revoke David's pass. The coach warns Tobey against getting tossed out the game, but he only hears cheering voices in his mind.

David races to the Colosseum gates, but learns he has been fired, and blocked by security guards. David climbs a fence, but is caught by the guards and locked in a holding area with a group of rowdy men listening to the game on the radio. David overhears a sportscaster talking about Tobey's growing frustration, and "blood in his eyes" and fears the worst will happen (with Tobey now having flashbacks to training with his father). June is in the audience, watching with fear.

David's pleas to be set free is met by one of the holding area men hurling a metal bowl at an already charged David...who Hulks-out, races to the field (the sportscaster saying, "what the Hell is that?") and stops Tobey from killing the rival quarterback, picking him up like one would pick up a child, then plows through easily swatted players. The Hulk lays Tobey down in the end zone, and in his own frustration, bends the field goal post--ending the game. Tobey--still filled with rage--tries to attack the Hulk, but is held down by his head, then turns to escape the Colosseum.

Sometime later, a calm Tobey is back at home with June, playing his miniature war games with David, but Banner's battlefield strategy is not too sharp. Tobey wants David to stay, but Banner fears the publicity surrounding Tobey's case with Byron. June thanks David for helping Tobey get the right help, and hopes he works out his own troubles.

David stands outside of the L.A. Colosseum (after collecting some personal items), thinks for a moment, then leaves.

NOTES:

Another cure related episode.

Continuity: Byron Stewart is aware of Banner's work, just like Dr. Claudia Baxter from "The Beast Within," and of course, Caroline Fields.

Jack McGee does not appear, or is mentioned in this episode.

The Hulk has spotted himself in mirrors or bodies of water before, but I'm almost certain he's never reacted with rage. This new reaction might signal greater turmoil or resentment (of not wanting to be the Hulk) buried in the Banner side.

GUEST STARS:

Denny Miller (John Tobey) might be best remembered for being cinema's first blonde Tarzan in Tarzan, the Ape Man (MGM, 1959) and his send up as an actor fooling the Gilligan's Island castaways into thinking he was Tongo, the Ape Man, in the 1967 episode "Our Vines Have Tender Apes."--

Miller appeared in several fantasy roles, including two episodes of The Six Million Dollar Man ("The Pal-Mir Escort" and "Target in the Sky"), I Spy ("Anyplace I Hang Myself is Home"), The Girl from U.N.C.L.E. ("The Atlantis Affair"), Battlestar Galactica ("Gun on Ice Planet Zero" parts 1 & 2), Beyond Westworld ("My Brother's Keeper"), "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century ("The Dorian Secret"), and as a Visitor Trooper in the first V miniseries. Miller will return to TIH in season four's "The Harder They Fall," and like many a Hulk guest star, also turned up on another CBS superhero series--Wonder Woman's "The Pied Piper" from 1977.

Rudy Solari (Dr. Bryron Stewart) was a regular on the short-lived Dirty Dozen-inspired Garrison's Gorillas (ABC, 1967-68) as Casino, opposite then-future Planet of the Apes (TV) & Land of the Lost star, Ron Harper. But there's no doubt he is remembered by TOS fans for his role as the hostile Salish--rival of "Kirok" in season three's "The Paradise Syndrome."

Solari's other fantasy credits date back to Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea ("The Last Battle"), The Outer Limits ("Production and Decay of Strange Particles" & "The Invisible Enemy"), the Gary Collins ESP/horror series The Sixth Sense ("Eye of the Haunted" & "The Eyes That Wouldn't Die"), The Bionic Woman ("Max") and The Powers of Matthew Star ("The Triangle") before dropping out of acting in the early 1980s.

Barbara Leigh (June Tobey) had a short-lived career in acting, but landed roles in the exploitation thriller Terminal Island, (Dimension Pictures, 1973) opposite former Irwin Allen stars Don (Land of the Giants) Marshall & Marta (Lost in Space) Kristen, and then-future Magnum P.I. stars Tom Selleck & Roger E. Mosely. Leigh also appeared in the Roddenberry-scripted/produced trashy sex film (thinly disguised as a mystery) Pretty Maids All in a Row (MGM, 1971). To fantasy fans--specifically comic readers, she's well remembered as the first woman to be a cover model of Warren Publishing's anti-heroine Vampirella (#67, published in March of 1978).

Frank Orsatti (Kurt Donahue) was a big member of the Hulk family, being Billy Bixby's stuntman throughout the entire series. In fact, that is Orsatti as David in the Colosseum fence-climbing scene in addition to playing Kurt the football player. Orsatti also directed 12 Hulk episodes.

Below, Orsatti (center) clowns around with Ferrigno and Lou's Hulk stunt double, fellow bodybuilder and Mr. USA, Manny Perry--

As a stuntman in fantasy or adventure productions, he was used all over the place, with work in Star Trek V - The Final Frontier (Paramount, 1989), Irwin Allen's The Poseidon Adventure (Fox, 1972) and The Towering Inferno (Fox/Warner Brothers, 1974), two Charlton Heston classics--Planet of the Apes (Fox, 1968) and Soylent Green (MGM, 1973) and Polanski's Rosemary's Baby (Paramount, 1968).

 

[The Old Mixer]

The Incredible Hulk
"Killer Instinct"
Originally aired November 10, 1978

Los Angeles Cougars

a.k.a. the Not the Chicago Bears.

The use of fictional aliases for the football teams shown in the footage becomes more bizarre when they have the coach wearing a completely different logo depicting a cougar head on his hat and jacket.

And seriously...an NFL team from Memphis? (a.k.a. the Not the Cleveland Browns.) I don't follow sports in general, but something so blatantly fictitious just sticks out like a sore thumb.

But they did seem to be adding some grain to the closeups of the actors in the stadium scenes, which, assuming it was deliberate, was a nice touch to make it blend in better with the actual football footage.

Byron is impressed, but others have said the same..including David Banner.

Continuity: Byron Stewart is aware of Banner's work, just like Dr. Claudia Baxter from "The Beast Within," and of course, Caroline Fields.

Now I wish I'd kept a list of episodes in which Banner is referenced as a third party...I'd have to do some digging now to make sure there aren't examples other than the ones you've cited.

Also, David's Undercover Doctor angle is in play here. I was surprised, though, that the psychiatrist wasn't up to anything deliberately shady.

In the Cougars' locker room, Bowers and another player (who overheard David & Byron) harass David, snapping towels at him, then force him into a steam room, turning the thermostat up, which triggers a Hulk-out.

-27:18. At least they're getting a little creative with the old "throw him someplace out of sight" trope. And for segments of the audience who might appreciate it, we get sweaty Ferrigno in shorts.

And ugh, speaking of the shorts...very '70s, David, with the socks being longer than them. But they look curiously larger on the Hulk....

David: "How much is your grant, doctor. 50..100 thousand dollars? Are you afraid that you're going to lose your funding if somebody finds out that one of your subjects cracked up--because of your research, and you did absolutely nothing to stop it?"
Byron: "...and if I was to do as you say, if i stand up before the world and tell them that I've done something wrong and then nothing happens.. The grant was for 225 thousand dollars!! And it took five years of MY LIFE to accomplish it!! Do you have any idea what that means?!?"

David could have gotten him a nice new grant if he'd been willing to reveal himself to the world....

David climbs a fence, but is caught by the guards and locked in a holding area with a group of rowdy men listening to the game on the radio.

I can see a stadium having such an area, but would it have so many people in it? At least one of them was likely there for being drunk & disorderly.

David overhears a sportscaster talking about Tobey's growing frustration, and "blood in his eyes"

(Like the announcer could see his eyes....)

David's pleas to be set free is met by one of the holding area men hurling a metal bowl at an already charged David...who Hulks-out

-7:24.

Tobey--still filled with rage--tries to attack the Hulk, but is held down by his head, then turns to escape the Colosseum.

The climax here reminds me more than a little of "A Child in Need"...a notably calm Hulk dealing gently with an irrationally aggressive puny human fueled by daddy issues.

David stands outside of the L.A. Colosseum (after collecting some personal items), thinks for a moment, then leaves.

Ah yes...actual location shooting, thanks to the Hollywood-friendly setting.

Another cure related episode.

Keeping those episodes surprisingly competitive.

Rudy Solari

Ah, I had no idea that was Salish! Behold, the Hulk who bleeds!

Barbara Leigh

Quite striking, but a painfully weak actress.

Hot damn!

In fact, that is Orsatti as David in the Colosseum fence-climbing scene

Didn't know him by name, but I spotted him--another painfully obvious full-frontal stunt shot.

I'm surprised that you missed one genre-relevant piece of casting--The coach was played by Pepper Martin, whose name I had to look up, but who was instantly recognizable to me as Rocky the bullying truck driver from Superman II!

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[TREK_GOD_1]

Here's a kookier thought, though it still would have been a problematic situation--Given that Alice's mom was out and about jetsetting or whatever she was doing, and David clearly hadn't had contact with this family since Ted died...is it possible that the mom didn't even know David was supposed to be dead?

If David was as close to the family as suggested, i'm sure Alice & her mother did not miss Banner's funeral, or if she could not attend, was notified by Banner's sister and/or father (we have to assume they were present).

 

[The Old Mixer]

I wouldn't assume any of that...there was no indication of Banner's family having come out to his funeral, unless it was mentioned in their episode.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Eh, but by the time KISS' undeservedly inflated ego entered the solo record (while still a group) phase in '78 (I made the mistake of buying the Ace Frehley album...oh, I really paid for that!) that shined a light on how they were more image than decent content.

What angers me about this 'musical' group is that pressure was put onto the people behind the RRHOF to induct them. The RRHOF administrators wisely though that they were shit and refused to induct them for many years, then they finally were worn down and did do so a few years ago, but the stupid fuckers caused a stink about not being able to have all of the original members be there at the induction ceremony, when the RRHOF administrators wanted this, IIRC. All this pressure to induct a shitty band of costumed freaks that were rejects from Hanna-Barbera by way of Walt Disney with a touch of DC or Marvel Comics, and with none of the great content of any of the other inductees.