Couldn't it be both? They used "The End" because of the end of the series but positioned it where they did intentionally?
MeTV's SuperSci-Fi Saturday Night
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Couldn't it be both? They used "The End" because of the end of the series but positioned it where they did intentionally?
The alliteration as the excuse for the name change is pretty lame considering that the comic book character had the same initials as the actor playing him.
I wonder, if Johnson didn't like "Bruce Banner," why he didn't just go with the character's full name of Robert Bruce Banner and call him Robert instead of David. When was "Robert Bruce Banner" established as his full name? (I know it was a retcon to fix Stan Lee's mistake of calling him "Bob Banner" in one or two early issues, but how late a retcon was it?)
Although I was always more familiar with this series than with the comics or cartoons, so "David Banner" still sounds more right to me.
Yup. Lots of fans get up in arms about wanting every adaptation to be perfectly exact and literal, because they believe that's the only way it can be good, but this is the disproof of that belief. It was as completely unlike the comics as Johnson could make it, and yet it's beloved by Hulk fans today because it was good in its own right.
In a way, though, maybe it's not so different. I'm remembering that Marvel put out horror and romance and war and other genres of comics before doing superheroes, and a lot of elements from those other genres made their way into the superhero books. The Incredible Hulk was always as much a monster story as a superhero story, and Johnson played up that angle. So maybe the foundations were there after all.
But it was the second-last episode, not the last. I mean, the scene in question was the teaser for the next episode, after all. So that's not a place where you'd put an announcement of the end of the series; that would be weird. So no, I think it's just a butt joke.
Again, you are incorrect. Dozier knew well in advance that the series was cancelled, and he teased "the end" for the first and last time in series history, for the obvious reason that the next episode would be--the end of the series.
There's no precedent for "butt humor" of that kind (if at all) on the series before that, so its absence strongly means it was not anything to be considered before post production of episode #119. Further, Dozier--already knowing the series was over--was not inclined to try anything new at the end of a third season that was a complete failure.
It was first established in a letter column in answer to fans pointing out the "Bob Banner" mistake, so that much was early on (ca. 1964). I couldn't say offhand exactly when it was first used in-story, but I'm picturing one particular panel from the Tales to Astonish days...possibly because it was posted here in a previous discussion years ago...but I'd have to do some digging to find it. It was definitely around by the time of the TV show, though.
FWIW, I think that David Banner sounds better, too. But everything has its place--I balked when an early '80s Hulk story saw the name David Bruce Banner used in print (Reagan signing off on Banner's amnesty during the intelligent Hulk storyline)...if it was an attempt at a retcon, it didn't stick.
I should add regarding the show...all the good intentions and effort towards a serious tone wouldn't have worked if the lead actor had been bad, dull, and/or unlikable. With all respect to Lou Ferrigno (who gets kudos for making the Hulk likable without the use of dialogue) and Jack Colvin...Bill Bixby carried this show with his sympathetic, engaging performance. He made Banner, who was often treated as a cipher in the comics, into a real human being, and brought an essential ingredient to the show...getting us to root for him not to become the Hulk, even though the Green Goliath was ultimately the reason that we were watching.
Good to know.
I'm curious about how much the Hulk comics changed to resemble the series while it was on. Superhero comics have been following the lead of their media adaptations ever since Jimmy Olsen and Perry White migrated from radio to comics. I have heard before that there was some attempt to do a storyline with Banner as a lonely man hitchhiking across the country, but I'm not clear on just how far the changes went.
Oh, absolutely. Bixby brought a charm, solemnity, and depth to Banner that no actor since has approached until Mark Ruffalo (and I think it's fair to say that Ruffalo's performance is influenced by Bixby's). But you're right about Ferrigno too -- he managed to make the Hulk poignant and sympathetic through a strictly nonverbal performance.
There is, of course, the episode where Ferrigno appears in a speaking role as a weightlifter, but I always wish they'd done an episode where one of Banner's cure attempts led him to Hulk out with his mind intact and let the Hulk speak. Not "Hulk smash" and "Puny Banner" and stuff like that, but more like David being aware of himself while in Hulk form, though maybe with his intelligence dulled as in "Prometheus." Not sure how it would've worked, but it would've been interesting to see them try it.
Interesting catch.
The alliteration as the excuse for the name change is pretty lame considering that the comic book character had the same initials as the actor playing him.
Ah, but culturally, Bruce Banner, Lois Lane, Peter Parker and names of that sort were heavily associated with comic book characters. No one saw popular actor Bill Bixby's name in that way, so Johnson wanting the change--when he was already moving away from the "comic booky" trappings--made sense.
Well observed. The David/Laura flashback drops hard on the audience, letting them know that this was not going to be a show tossing around "THWACK!" and "ZAMM!" (Batman), have the hero smile at the end of the episode (Wonder Woman) or wink to the audience (like George Reeves). The flashback allowed the audience to instantly sympathize with every decision Banner made from the second he arrived at work--and find the pressing of Jack McGee (as a potential threat) annoying every moment he's on screen.
Right again--the struggles of Banner not wanting to be a monster was--at the time Johnson was developing the series in 1977--the standard comic scripting of the Hulk in both his own title, Tales to Astonish, and any other title in which he appeared. That was the heart of the approach to TIH--more than the creature's strength.
That said, the series played around with the Hulk's strength, from punching large dents in the metal enclosure that captured him in "Prometheus" (part one), tearing through steel chambers, regularly punching his way through brick walls, turning cars over, hurling parts of trees into the sky, etc. So, while he was not taking mile-long leaps, or tossing tanks, the series was successful at painting the Hulk as an unmatched force.
I will say this: the Spider-Man series scored with Nicholas Hammond's Peter Parker; he was as intelligent, forthright and likable as the Parker of the Spider-Man comics of the period. Starting off, the series was not going to have him as emotionally weighed down with the then-fairly recent comic-book tragedies/aftermath of Captain Stacy (1970) and Gwen Stacy (1973), but again, the series captured the heroic, pleasant side of Parker/Spider-Man, even without the larger than life comic book rouge's gallery.
In fact, the approach to the Hammond Spider-Man was similar to Johnson's Hulk--trying to ground a big fantasy character in a realistic world, hence the reason the TV series had him face off against terrorists, mobsters, etc. Although they did manage something out of the ordinary in "Night of the Clones," inspired by the comic's original clone plot (Amazing Spider-Man 127-151. 169), but the overall tone was to keep Spider-Man in the real world.
In the series' run, David eventually had allies who knew his secret, but he could not stick around long enough to really benefit from the relationship. Regarding Ben, it would not work, since he (Ben) was tied to David's life pre-Hulk, and in the wake of the lab explosion, it would have been too dangerous to maintain any contact, with McGee believing Banner (along with Elaina Marks) and anyone in his professional life might have known about the Hulk.
Same here. Joe Harnell created one of the most memorable pieces composed for TV, no matter the genre.
Spidey...wasn't feeling it, definitely not on later rerun watching. They lost the core element of Peter Parker being a neurotic schmuck with a complicated social life to do a generic threat of the week show that had the otherwise generic protagonist occasionally switching into a costume, a la Wonder Woman. When I wrote "dull" as a disqualification for a good David Banner performance above, the image of Hammond was popping into my head.
There are probably a lot of discrepancies in the magnitude of Hulk's strength on the show, but one could easily handwave them away as his power level varying with his anger, a trope that was well established in the comics by that time.
I started reading the comics in the wake of the TV show, and the first thing I noticed was how different the comics version was, so I'd say not much. They did feature Banner on the run a lot, but there was ample precedent for that, and it was on a more global scale. There was a memorable run of issues around the turn of the decade that had the Hulk visiting a new country every issue, sometimes running into heroes from those countries who were making their debuts, like Arabian Knight and Sabra.
There are probably a lot of discrepancies in the magnitude of Hulk's strength on the show, but one could easily handwave them away as his power level varying with his anger, a trope that was well established in the comics by that time.
I started reading the comics in the wake of the TV show, and the first thing I noticed was how different the comics version was, so I'd say not much. They did feature Banner on the run a lot, but there was ample precedent for that, and it was on a more global scale. There was a memorable run of issues around the turn of the decade that had the Hulk visiting a new country every issue, sometimes running into heroes from those countries who were making their debuts, like Arabian Knight and Sabra.
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As I recall, the color comics didn't change much to reflect the TV show: you still had Thunderbolt Ross chasing the Hulk, who was still fighting aliens and mutants and super-villains, and such. But the short-lived HULK magazine did eventually make an effort to emulate the feel of TV show, eschew alien invasions and killer robots in favor of more "grounded" TV-style stories.
So that was Lara Parker as Mrs. Banner in the prologue? I thought as much (those eyes are unmistakable). By coincidence, I wrote the jacket copy for Parker's new DARK SHADOWS novel last week, so I was binging on DS clips on YouTube just a few days before last night's HULK episode.
So that was Lara Parker as Mrs. Banner in the prologue? I thought as much (those eyes are unmistakable). By coincidence, I wrote the jacket copy for Parker's new DARK SHADOWS novel last week, so I was binging on DS clips on YouTube just a few days before last night's HULK episode.
Now that I've become much more familiar with the Spidey of the comics (and even written a novel about him), I can definitely see all the ways the Hammond show fell short. But when it was first on, it was pretty much the only version I knew of Spider-Man aside from having seen some of the "Does whatever a spider can" cartoon here and there. So I actually kind of liked it. I thought Hammond was a likeable lead, and they did a reasonable job with the Spidey costume and the stunts, within the limits of '70s technology and budget. And I've always loved Dana Kaproff's score to the second-season episodes, with the funky '70s guitars and trumpets and the jazzy sax. That's still one of my favorite superhero themes to this day.
So maybe the magazine was marketed more for general audiences while the main comic was aimed more at loyal Marvelites?
^I think that was the case. The magazine would appear on magazine racks where comics might not otherwise be on sale.
You guys know a thousand time more about this series than I do and I'm not second guessing you but as someone who remembers the "oncoming thrusts of manhood" bit over twenty years after first seeing it and with the gag about flattening making a gag about "The End" didn't seem out of place. Maybe those jokes are the product of seeing the show through the lens of later years but it certainly seemed a bit suggestive when I first caught it.
^There's also the fact that it's Zsa Zsa Gabor we're talking about. Her image was that of a sexy and promiscuous socialite who went through a string of husbands; she'd just recently been divorced for the fifth time when this episode aired (hence her line about "looking for a new man"). She was known for her Mae West-like sexual innuendoes and jokes. So putting "The End" over a shot of her undulating rear as she leads two men into her clutches? That's undoubtedly about Zsa Zsa herself, not about the impending cancellation of the series.
I've read / collected nearly all Spider-Man & related titles from the first 20 or so years of the character, and that "neurotic schmuck" thing was not as prominent as post McFarlane, "everyone is a misfit" Marvel BS would have some believe (like the horrible Garfield movies). Parker came into his own with self confidence even during the last couple of Ditko years, and certainly he turned into anything other than a geek during its height--the Romita era. That version of Parker--the one which defined the character for most of the 60s/70s was the basis for Hammond's performance.
That's right--just as long as his power way far beyond any other being on earth. The only one even hinting at that kind of strength was the Frye character's Hulk-like creature from "The First" two-parter from season four.
I'd probably do the same to that Datsun. He almost seemed to enjoy that first transformation--like some orgiastic drug.
He wrecks a car and breaks a gun. Definitely a good Green.
Alvino ray--I love that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvino_Rey
http://www.batgirlbat-trap.com/arganaly.html
On the hulk
http://kool1079.com/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-the-incredible-hulk/
Per the wiki--there is a very brief shot of Richard Kiel (as the Hulk) remains in the pilot.
I wonder if the same make-up artists worked on THE NORLISS TAPES.
The creatures there have a similar look.
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There's no evidence (I've not foiund any in any of the university Dozier / Greenway papers i've seen) that "the end" was a direct reference to Gabor's butt as a joke. What is a fact is that her episode--#120--was a settled matter as the finale of the series by Greenway/ABC. The tease of "the end" was simply a one-of-a-kind acknowledgement that Batman had reached its conclusion, and nothing else. The send-off was also supported by both Dozier and Howie Horwitz appearing as two of Minerva's victims in the episode, in a more prominent way that any other cameo--as the two men who (more than any others) had brought Batman to TV and turned it into a phenomenon, so for them, it was a last chance to be a more visible part of the show's final episode.
Even if all of that evidence did not exist, if Dozier wanted to play on such "humor," he had endless opportunities to do so between episode #1 - #119, with female guest stars with more of a public sexualized identity than Gabor in that decade.. It never happened, because "the end" was not a joke.
I didn't see the "The End" gag myself, but from what you guys are describing, it sounds to me like they might have been going for both meanings (guess that would be a triple entendre in this case).
Post-McFarlane isn't my influence at all...the vast bulk of my Spidey reading is first-hand 70s and second-hand 60s. He gained confidence as time went on and shed the role of the picked-on geek, but he was still neurotic (tended to focus a lot on his woes and take actions that made situations worse) and had a social and home life that complicated his super-heroing and vice versa. That's an essential trait of classic Spidey, and to my recollection, any sign of it was woefully lacking in the Hammond TV series. Much like the '60s animated series, they did away with most of the supporting cast and focused on his work life at the Bugle.
Tore down a big-ass tree, too.
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There was one nice bit in the original pilot movie, where a defeated Spidey had to ride home in the back of a garbage truck that I thought really captured the "lovable loser who can't get a break" tone of the early Lee/Ditko comics. The rest of the series . . . not so much.
But that garbage-truck bit was perfect.
"And nothing else?" The screencap you posted yourself last night clearly shows that the caption is positioned directly over Gabor's posterior, not in the center of the screen as it would be if it weren't intended as an innuendo at all. Even if it was intended as a reference to the end of the series, it clearly wasn't meant exclusively that way.
Oh, come on, the series was full of sexual innuendoes, going back to Newmar's "brush my pussywillows" at the very least.
You mean Richard Kiel, who was originally cast as the Hulk and appears in one shot in the pilot (he was replaced when Kenneth Johnson's kid pointed out that he wasn't bulky enough). Ted Cassidy provided the Hulk's vocalizations throughout the series, as well as narrating the opening titles.
