Menagerie, re-mastered on the Big Screen

[Garibaldi O'brien]

Saw the AMC showing in Brandon and really enjoyed it. It makes me wish the station here actually broadcast TOS-Remaster in HD, as the theatre projection was average at best. I am quite certain my home setup would outperform it if I had a copy of the episode in 1080i. I can't believe they're going to get me to re-buy TOS for the third time, but dammit, this showing made it a must buy on HD-DVD.

"The Women!" seemed to be the major laugh line at our showing too. Some giggling at the paper-printer, but not from me, since they didn't use Imagewriter or even worse, laser-printer sound effects for the printouts. One of the advantages of it being pre-Apple sound FX libraries. The Pike era bridge really does hold up better. I could really see them doing something with the gooseneck monitors and modern flat screen tech in the new movie. Mind you, I'm not quite sure how, but there must be a way to combine Sulu's targeting scanner's popup with the gooseneck in a satisfying way.

/Bring on the Doomsday machine and Ultimate Computer or Immunity Syndrome double bill. I would pay $9 to see them in the theatre.

 

[Matt]

The Transformed Man said:

Matt said:
Man was my showing dark. AMC really needs to upgrade their screens and projectors. Talk about garbage.

I assume you were at the Ahwatukee 24... yes, I HATE AMC theaters, wish it could have been at a Harkins. Very disappointed with the presentation... waaaay too dark and they needed to crank up the sound, but I blame that on AMC... not CBS/Paramount.


Yancy

Yup. I was down in front, too. Had to look straight up at the pixellated screen. The dude sitting next to me fell asleep towards the end of part 1, and was snoring so loud.

One thing I noticed about the "remastered" version that honestly bothered me, not in a nitpicking way, but a "I could have done better than that" way, was when the Pike-Enterprise was approaching Talos IV, Spock is in front of the viewscreen, with the new 3D CG planet zooming in, and the way they masked his ear to put in the new effects was bad because the mask was jumping around, so his ear looked like it was throbbing and changing shape.

We should make a Trek Meetup group or something. Once every few months, two episodes. I couldn't believe how hilarious some moments were with other people. The most people I've watched TV Trek with before was four or five, but with other Trekkies it's like hilarious. THE WOMEN! Unusually strong female drives. LOL.

 

[Matt]

Is there any way for us to know how well the Tuesday showing did?

BoxOfficeMojo.com reports "American Gangster" pulled in 1.5million on Tuesday.

I'm sure The Menagerie did better than that. Most theaters were PACKED for the showing, plus the ticket prices were 2x the normal amount.

 

[Therin of Andor]

propita said:
The Talosians said "in the shuttlecraft." That means they were projecting DAYS away from Talos!

Exactly! Meaning that any "Off Limits" rule was useless, and that fact underlines that the Talosians had learned their lesson 13 years ago, and their new, benevolent offer to the injured Pike was genuine. Because they could have attracted thousands of new zoo specimens over the previous decade, or destroyed Starfleet, but chose not to.

Why was Kirk in such "improved HD" but neither the yeoman nor Vina were? Can we say "soft focus"?

TOS always shot its female guest stars in soft focus. Including Marla McGivers, Edith Keeler and Mea 3.

 

[Green Shirt]

I have tickets for tonight's show for me and my son. Being a school night, there's a 50/50 chance that I will actually go. Its not playing at "my usual" AMC theater, so the travel time is what may actually stop me from going.

Are any Baltimore area fans familiar with the Regal Hunt Valley Mall Stadium 12? Too bad its not playing at White Marsh, its only 5 minutes away.

 

[RAMA]

Electric Coleslaw said:

RAMA said:
OK I've read several posts on here, that state: "laughter at the expected places", and laughter when Spock yells "the women!". OK why did people laugh at that? I don't get it! He's simply stating the obvious fact that only the two women were taken, and not the 4 men of the landing party.

RAMA

For me it's a combination of knowing the sexist attitudes of the 1960's and the fact that it's our supposedly non-emotion Spock getting upset because they took the babes!

Well this is incorrect...Spock was not emotionless in the "Cage", Number One was. Spock was alien but emotionless was not part of his description. And I honestly don't think in this particular case, that the line was sexist. So really, I still don't understand the reaction. Some of the other laughter I understood.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

22 Stars said:

Electric Coleslaw said:

RAMA said:
OK I've read several posts on here, that state: "laughter at the expected places", and laughter when Spock yells "the women!". OK why did people laugh at that? I don't get it! He's simply stating the obvious fact that only the two women were taken, and not the 4 men of the landing party.

RAMA

For me it's a combination of knowing the sexist attitudes of the 1960's and the fact that it's our supposedly non-emotion Spock getting upset because they took the babes!

I agree, how can anyone not react to that line? It's such a short, overy emoted (esp. for our non-emotional Mr. Spock)declaration/exclamation, and it does seem a bit dated and sexist in some wierd way.... Why would he yell, and why wouldn't he yell, Commander since the first officer and acting captain just got snatched?

Okayyy...let's pretend you have a transporter, and you are beaming 6 people down to a planet....well normally ALL who are intending to go down usually make it, but in this case, you know its wrong that only two people--both women--beam down and you don't. Wouldn't you be surprised?

RAMA

 

[Green Shirt]

RAMA said:

22 Stars said:

Electric Coleslaw said:

RAMA said:
OK I've read several posts on here, that state: "laughter at the expected places", and laughter when Spock yells "the women!". OK why did people laugh at that? I don't get it! He's simply stating the obvious fact that only the two women were taken, and not the 4 men of the landing party.

RAMA

For me it's a combination of knowing the sexist attitudes of the 1960's and the fact that it's our supposedly non-emotion Spock getting upset because they took the babes!

I agree, how can anyone not react to that line? It's such a short, overy emoted (esp. for our non-emotional Mr. Spock)declaration/exclamation, and it does seem a bit dated and sexist in some wierd way.... Why would he yell, and why wouldn't he yell, Commander since the first officer and acting captain just got snatched?

Okayyy...let's pretend you have a transporter, and you are beaming 6 people down to a planet....well normally ALL who are intending to go down usually make it, but in this case, you know its wrong that only two people--both women--beam down and you don't. Wouldn't you be surprised?

RAMA

I don't know if the line gets laughs from the theater audience because A.) most people have seen the episode 375 times, B.) the line IS sexist, in a 60's kind of way, or 3.) Spock shouting on the big screen makes it even bigger than life.

How about if Spock let out a loud "WHAT?, the F**K!!".

 

[RAMA]

klingongoat said:

RAMA said:

22 Stars said:

Electric Coleslaw said:

RAMA said:
OK I've read several posts on here, that state: "laughter at the expected places", and laughter when Spock yells "the women!". OK why did people laugh at that? I don't get it! He's simply stating the obvious fact that only the two women were taken, and not the 4 men of the landing party.

RAMA

For me it's a combination of knowing the sexist attitudes of the 1960's and the fact that it's our supposedly non-emotion Spock getting upset because they took the babes!

I agree, how can anyone not react to that line? It's such a short, overy emoted (esp. for our non-emotional Mr. Spock)declaration/exclamation, and it does seem a bit dated and sexist in some wierd way.... Why would he yell, and why wouldn't he yell, Commander since the first officer and acting captain just got snatched?

Okayyy...let's pretend you have a transporter, and you are beaming 6 people down to a planet....well normally ALL who are intending to go down usually make it, but in this case, you know its wrong that only two people--both women--beam down and you don't. Wouldn't you be surprised?

RAMA

I don't know if the line gets laughs from the theater audience because A.) most people have seen the episode 375 times, B.) the line IS sexist, in a 60's kind of way, or 3.) Spock shouting on the big screen makes it even bigger than life.

How about if Spock let out a loud "WHAT?, the F**K!!".

OK name WHY it is sexist?

What is the quickest description of the two kidnapped landing party members in a moment of surprise? If there were 4 women and two men instead, would you describe them as anything else?

 

[Green Shirt]

I think the line is sexist because it seem to me that by shouting "the women!!", it objectifies them. Then it classifies them according to their gender in a subervient manner -- rather than just being concerned that two "crewmwmbers" are missing.

What a load of crap I just wrote!

 

[Dorothy_Zbornak]

Therin of Andor said:

propita said:
The Talosians said "in the shuttlecraft." That means they were projecting DAYS away from Talos!

Exactly! Meaning that any "Off Limits" rule was useless, and that fact underlines that the Talosians had learned their lesson 13 years ago, and their new, benevolent offer to the injured Pike was genuine. Because they could have attracted thousands of new zoo specimens over the previous decade, or destroyed Starfleet, but chose not to.

Why was Kirk in such "improved HD" but neither the yeoman nor Vina were? Can we say "soft focus"?

TOS always shot its female guest stars in soft focus. Including Marla McGivers, Edith Keeler and Mea 3.

It's hard to HD-ify vaseline.

 

[Electric Coleslaw]

klingongoat said:
I think the line is sexist because it seem to me that by shouting "the women!!", it objectifies them. Then it classifies them according to their gender in a subervient manner -- rather than just being concerned that two "crewmwmbers" are missing.

What a load of crap I just wrote!

To me, the line itself is not sexist, the attitude towards women in general at that time and on TOS was sexist. And just knowing that attitude makes it seem funny when you see it blatantly used in TOS episodes.

And no matter that Spock was more emotional as a youth. It's still funny to see him upset.

 

[Maquis10of9]

I saw it Nov 13.
Things I noticed: When we first saw Pike, Spock requested a private conversation. During that, I was surprised to notice for the first time that Pike actually had a tear in his eye as he insisted (as best he could via lights and beeps) that Spock not do as he was planning.

Later when we saw the first contact video as Pikes landing party beamed down, I remembered one of the noteworthy effects on this alien world was a strange Lily that vibrated with an alien whine. When the landing party touched the stems, the sound changed (in the original TV version). For some reason, in this updated version the sound hardly changed at all. I view this bit of technical trivia as diminishing the memory of the original presentation, a mistake made by those doing the restoration.

Was the perceived value “worth” it? I have mixed feelings.
While the restoration was good, I still came away with the nagging feeling that I had just paid $12.50 a seat to attend a big infomercial. You see, the underlying thread before and after was a sales pitch for the dual sided HD/DVD release of the remastered digitized collection of the original series. Season One soon to be on-sale with Season Two soon to follow. Should I have paid more than the going rate for a new release feature film just to see this commercial pitch? I feel less than satisfied. Perhaps if the showing had included some special commemorative gifts for the audience, maybe if they randomly gave out a few gift vouchers for the HD/DVD collection, or even just an “x” dollars off coupon–something–perhaps I would have felt like I had made a better investment. If a similar
future presentation arises, I will probably skip it. The choice is yours…

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

^Yeah, I was a bit put off by the constant plugging of the HD/DVD but got over it because I was thrilled to see Kirk, Spock and the rest up on the big screen. It was the same thrill I got when I saw a preview screening of Superman Returns, because these are the two things from my childhood that still gives me a sense of adventure and thrill.

 

[Ghostface1701]

Maquis10of9 said:
I saw it Nov 13.
Things I noticed: When we first saw Pike, Spock requested a private conversation. During that, I was surprised to notice for the first time that Pike actually had a tear in his eye as he insisted (as best he could via lights and beeps) that Spock not do as he was planning.

Yes, I'd forgotten about that! I can't imagine that ever being noticeable to anyone watching this pre-HD, it's the tiniest little detail.

Later when we saw the first contact video as Pikes landing party beamed down, I remembered one of the noteworthy effects on this alien world was a strange Lily that vibrated with an alien whine. When the landing party touched the stems, the sound changed (in the original TV version). For some reason, in this updated version the sound hardly changed at all. I view this bit of technical trivia as diminishing the memory of the original presentation, a mistake made by those doing the restoration.

That's funny, I always remembered them just getting quieter as the leaves were held. There seemed no difference.

Was the perceived value “worth” it? I have mixed feelings.
While the restoration was good, I still came away with the nagging feeling that I had just paid $12.50 a seat to attend a big infomercial. You see, the underlying thread before and after was a sales pitch for the dual sided HD/DVD release of the remastered digitized collection of the original series. Season One soon to be on-sale with Season Two soon to follow. Should I have paid more than the going rate for a new release feature film just to see this commercial pitch? I feel less than satisfied. Perhaps if the showing had included some special commemorative gifts for the audience, maybe if they randomly gave out a few gift vouchers for the HD/DVD collection, or even just an “x” dollars off coupon–something–perhaps I would have felt like I had made a better investment. If a similar
future presentation arises, I will probably skip it. The choice is yours…

Of course it was a commercial for the HD-DVDs, but I didn't care. I paid £10 to see Trek in HD on a big screen, and that's exactly what I got. It's no good complaining about getting exactly what you willingly paid for! Unfortunately, ads are just something you have to put up with sometimes, like every other time you go to the movies. Be glad they didn't have commercial breaks during the eps!

On another note, all those unfortunates who got, in my opinion, ripped-off by seeing it from a low-definition projector, should be asking for their money back.

 

[Indysolo]

The leaves were supposed to stop making the sounds when they were touched. They didn't stop singing on the first 5.1 mix, but this was corrected for the season 1 DVD box set. It seems the old uncorrected mix was used for the high def "Re-Mastered" episode, so the leaves kept singing.

Neil

 

[Ssosmcin]

RAMA said:

OK name WHY it is sexist?

What is the quickest description of the two kidnapped landing party members in a moment of surprise? If there were 4 women and two men instead, would you describe them as anything else?

It was not written to be sexist and I'm sure in 1964, it wasn't sexist. And it obviously wasn't an intended laugh line. But it is dated and and a laugh line intoday's society.

Look at it like this. Substitute "the women" with any one of these:
"the negroes!"
"the Asians!"
"the Mexicans!"
"the cripple!"
"the retard!"

What it does, as stated in an above post, is classify them by gender. Really, seriously, if this happened to you, would you really shout "the women!" Or would you say something like: "Leutenant! Yeoman!" or "they're gone!" Or even "what happened?" since, not for anything, only the gals did what was intended, which was to beam down. The panic shouldn't have been that they beamed out, but that the other 4 did not.

It's also kind of humorous because, even though THIS Spock was not unemotional, the character in most of the rest of the episodes and movies is. Looking at it that way, our unemotional Spock suddenly screams "the women!" like he's upset his last chance to get laid just vanished.

This all reminds me of talking with some fans at conventions and most of us would pick something to make fun of in an episode and one guy would always say "um, that wasn't meant as a joke, you have to take it in context," etc. That guy always spoiled our fun. But we hung out with him anyway, because he was cool and big as a house and could beat us all up.

 

[Electric Coleslaw]

Another fun time from our theater was after Kirk and Mendez are beamed over and the report from the bridge says that the computer won't release control of the ship. Scotty goes off talking to himself which caused much laughter.

 

[Matt]

Yeah he's like huffing and puffing as he walks off camera. Everyone laughed.

Trek is so unintentionally funny when you're with a big group!

 

[General_Custer]

Was the big laser effect blasting the doors using the ships power cleaned up and crisp because I remember there was a lot of white flashes on the screen?