Meaning of the Enterprise [possible plot spoilers]

[KhanSolo]

Any time I've ever seen an Enterprise destroyed, it's always had meaning, or at least a legitimate reason for being destroyed. Usually it was written in to help further the plot or some narrative aspect. (The destruction of the Enterprise-D in Generations is iffy, and poorly written, but I'm okay with it). Lately, however, in the JJ universe, the Enterprise has been destroyed twice; the first time in Into Darkness and then clearly it gets demolished in Beyond. I guess what I'm getting at is nowadays they just do it because they can. They want action, and explosions. Look back at the Enterprise refit, we got attached to that ship, Spock dies in that ship, they encounter V'ger in that ship, they sacrifice that ship so that Genesis didn't fall into the wrong hands. IT HAD MEANING. Moreover, that meaning was intensified because we were familiar with it. Same with the Enterprise-D, we'd gotten to know that ship for 7 years. Some of the best, happiest, funniest, saddest, and intense moments happened on that ship. The Enterprise-C was destroyed defending a Klingon outpost and because of that, the Federation and Klingons became closer and more trustworthy of each other. When you destroy the Enterprise just to get people to come see your movie, it just cheapens the experience I feel like. The alternate universe Enterprise is nice and shiny and all, but I don't have that same connection I did to the other ones, they haven't made me want to put my faith in it because they destroy it every movie.

 

[Tom Servo]

Well, the ship wasn't destroyed in Into Darkness. Heavily damaged yes, but no more so then the Enterprise-E was in Nemesis.

This ship also doesn't have the benefit of a TV series to build up some emotional heft. How about we see the movie first before judging the emotion of how the handle the ship going down, if that is the case in this film.

 

[KhanSolo]

Well, the ship wasn't destroyed in Into Darkness. Heavily damaged yes, but no more so then the Enterprise-E was in Nemesis.

This ship also doesn't have the benefit of a TV series to build up some emotional heft. How about we see the movie first before judging the emotion of how the handle the ship going down, if that is the case in this film.

Yes, it wasn't technically destroyed in Into Darkness, I think that's a fair comparison to Nemesis as well. What I'm really trying to say is that there should be meaning to destroying or almost destroying the Enterprise. And you're right, they don't have a TV show to build up the emotional connection to it, which is why they should save that destruction card for when it counts.

 

[Shikarnov]

I'm the very last person to defend the Abrams movies, but I'm not sure this is a fair criticism... Firstly, we don't know the circumstances of the ship's destruction in Beyond, and secondly, in Into Darkness, the ship was defending Federation values against a man who was comfortable with blackmail and murder and bent on starting a vicious war with the Klingon Empire that surely would have claimed the lives of millions. I'd hardly call that meaningless.

 

[TheSubCommander]

Well, the ship wasn't destroyed in Into Darkness. Heavily damaged yes, but no more so then the Enterprise-E was in Nemesis.

This ship also doesn't have the benefit of a TV series to build up some emotional heft. How about we see the movie first before judging the emotion of how the handle the ship going down, if that is the case in this film.

This. The Alt Enterprise doesn't have screen time like the other versions, and the movies have only been around since 2009 and don't have the benefit of nostalgia, either. So, it's natural we won't have the same connection to it as the other enterprises. And we've only seen a glimpse of its presumed destruction (we assume it will be, but not 100% confirmed), so we don't exactly know the circumstances of its destruction. But what I can tell, it appears the loss of the Enterprise is intrinsic to the entire plot of STB.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The ship was heavily damaged in Into Darkness, not destroyed. Personally, I don't consider the TMP, WoK, SfS Enterprise to be the same as the TOS ship (same design concepts but a 100% different look and in TMP they even call it "an almost totally new Enterprise"), so losing this Enterprise in the third film feels familiar to me.

As for Star Trek Beyond, the destruction of the ship reportedly occurs at the start and drives the entire plot of the movie: They're trapped on a hostile world, beyond Federation space and with no hope of rescue. Have we ever seen our heroes in that situation in Star Trek before? Kirk's "We've got no ship, no crew. How are we gonna get out of this one?" says it all.

 

[SPCTRE]

oh noez, spoilerz you gais

 

[T'Girl]

oh noez, spoilerz you gais

In all honesty, if you want to avoid movie spoilers, this is probably the wrong sub-forum for you to be visiting. Perhaps you should stay away until after you've seen the movie?

they sacrifice that ship so that Genesis didn't fall into the wrong hands

That wasn't my impression, the only benefit derive from the ship's destruction was thinning out the Klingons. The only way Kruge was going to obtain any information on genesis would have been to question David Marcus, once he was murdered there was nothing more to protect.

So, it's natural we won't have the same connection to it as the other enterprises

One of the things that the last two movies completely skipped was James Kirk's personal connection to the Enterprise, I never saw a hint of this. He apparently enjoyed having a starship command, but nothing indicated that the Enterprise specifically was special to him.

 

[ralph]

One of the things that the last two movies completely skipped was James Kirk's personal connection to the Enterprise, I never saw a hint of this. He apparently enjoyed having a starship command, but nothing indicated that the Enterprise specifically was special to him.
+

Just remembering that in Star Trek Beyond two and half years have already passed since STID. In the IDW comics, Kirk and his crew have faced many dangers and adventures. Kirk is an experienced captain now.
The scene where Kirk is seeing the Enterprise being destroyed creates a feeling that he will greatly feel the loss of his ship. He cannot do more to resolve it. The sensation of death and uselessness.
This reminds me a bit of Voyager when the ship is stolen by Seska and the crew abandoned on a hostile planet.

 

[Timby]

This. The Alt Enterprise doesn't have screen time like the other versions, and the movies have only been around since 2009

The Abrams Enterprise has been around longer than the 1701 refit had been when it got blown to pieces.

 

[The Wormhole]

My only problem with destroying the Enterprise in this particular movie is that it supports the fan theory that the Abrams series really is just following the formula of the TOS movies. First movie, launch the new Enterprise, bring the crew together. Second movie, Khan! Third movie, destroy the Enterprise. If the fourth movie is anything other than a time travel adventure to save the whales, I will truly be shocked. Likewise, I fully expect the fifth movie to be about nuSybok and the sixth to be peace with the Klingons.

oh noez, spoilerz you gais

It's in the trailer, it's how the studio is promoting the film. Therefore, it's not a spoiler.

 

[M'Sharak]

oh noez, spoilerz you gais

In all honesty, if you want to avoid movie spoilers, this is probably the wrong sub-forum for you to be visiting. Perhaps you should stay away until after you've seen the movie?

Avoiding the forum is only a partial solution, O Wanna-be mod, if the spoiler happens to be in the thread title (and thus potentially visible to those outside the forum who may only have intended to view the main forum index.)

Spoilers should never appear in thread titles, as a matter of courtesy to any who wish to avoid them, and threads which contain (or may at some future point contain) spoilers should be clearly marked as such. The subject line for this thread has now been amended.

 

[TheSubCommander]

One of the things that the last two movies completely skipped was James Kirk's personal connection to the Enterprise, I never saw a hint of this. He apparently enjoyed having a starship command, but nothing indicated that the Enterprise specifically was special to him.

I've noticed that too. In TOS, TMP, and lesser extent, TWOK and TSFS, you had a clear sense of how attached Kirk was to not just his command and crew, but to the ship itself. Pine's Kirk may be attached to the captain's chair, and his crew, but I don't get that sense of attachment to the Enterprise.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Abrams Enterprise has been around longer than the 1701 refit had been when it got blown to pieces.

The TOS Enterprise was 40 years old when it was destroyed. (Refit or not, it was still the same ship.) The Abramsprise was in existence for what, a few years? 2 or 3 at most.

 

[STEPhon IT]

It definitely looks as if the JJ-Enterprise is gone but I'm hoping the film pulls an arbitrary revival ten minutes after, just like Kirk in Into Darkness. As for the ship, I think the producers got bored with what they have and needs to refresh it as much as they can. In the trailer it looks like the crew have new outfits, so maybe the crew needs a new ship to balance the changes.

 

[shapeshifter]

Any time I've ever seen an Enterprise destroyed, it's always had meaning, or at least a legitimate reason for being destroyed. Usually it was written in to help further the plot or some narrative aspect.

The meaning is in the trailer. As the ship is being shredded we hear: "This is where the Frontier pushes back, Kirk." They boldly go where no one has gone before and get their asses handed to them.

Just like all previous times the Enterprise gets destroyed the enemy had some element of surprise going for them. In this case it is swarms of razor sharp ninja stars capable of slicing and dicing the ship to pieces.

 

[KhanSolo]

Avoiding the forum is only a partial solution, O Wanna-be mod, if the spoiler happens to be in the thread title (and thus potentially visible to those outside the forum who may only have intended to view the main forum index.)

Spoilers should never appear in thread titles, as a matter of courtesy to any who wish to avoid them, and threads which contain (or may at some future point contain) spoilers should be clearly marked as such. The subject line for this thread has now been amended.

Sorry m8, I'm not entirely used to online forums yet, so give me some time. I almost got my head bitten off the other day for "resurrecting a dead thread" so I'm learning.

 

[KhanSolo]

...And we've only seen a glimpse of its presumed destruction (we assume it will be, but not 100% confirmed)...

If you watch the trailer frame by frame, the port nacelle can be seen falling off it's pylon, followed by a flaming saucer section plummeting towards the planet... I'd say that's 100%

 

[Timby]

The TOS Enterprise was 40 years old when it was destroyed. (Refit or not, it was still the same ship.) The Abramsprise was in existence for what, a few years? 2 or 3 at most.

Whoosh.

 

[M'Sharak]

Sorry m8, I'm not entirely used to online forums yet, so give me some time. I almost got my head bitten off the other day for "resurrecting a dead thread" so I'm learning.

No biting here, I promise. Just asking that you bear in mind that some folks prefer to see a new movie knowing as little as they can ahead of time about the plot. Keeping plot details out of thread titles and flagging threads which may contain spoilers just makes it easier for them to come to the story fresh at the theater.