McCoy in TOS

[Commishsleer]

I was looking at the makers' likely intentions, during a cultural era that could produce "Turnabout Intruder," while you're pointing to things they failed to rule out. You're not wrong. There's a lot of wiggle room involved.

Didn't GR admit he deliberately wrote in that woman couldn't command starships because of his fight with his uppity soon-to-be ex-wife as she was obviously in the wrong in the divorce proceedings and this episode was a take that to her. Maybe it was just how GR was feeling at the time because we know that he had a woman as 2nd in command in the pilot episode.I know during the series we never saw a female Starfleet captain but if you think about it most of the Starship captains we saw were either crazy or doomed.
I prefer to think that if you were to have the con you would need "pilot" training and Uhura for some reason hadn't had it/wasn't interested in it. And on other ships they had women captains/1st officers. Maybe the doomed captains/senior officers in the Ultimate Computers were women.

Yeah, not sure why but the gold uniform never looked good on women. Maybe it was the design, the material or lighting but it looked inferior and ill fitting compared to the blue and the red,

I thought Nichelle looked good in everything she wore

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Yeah, not sure why but the gold uniform never looked good on women. Maybe it was the design, the material or lighting but it looked inferior and ill fitting compared to the blue and the red,

I see it too. And it's true that various women wore re-used velour costumes that didn't quite fit, and were pulled out of shape a little bit. But the color itself is mostly to blame. That yellow-green chartreuse is drab and unflattering compared to the red and blue, which are vivid and make an actor pop. On men the chartreuse says "I'm a dude, I'm on the job, I'm not here to look pretty for you." On women, it says "I know this isn't my color, the boss makes me wear it."

No woman's uniform ever looked better than Mira Romaine's blue one in "The Lights of Zetar." It was made of the superior third season fabric, and I'm certain it was tailor-made for her. It was a perfect fit, the construction was crisp, and the material looked new and freshly-dyed. There was no wear, no fading from repeated dry cleanings. Mira had the look, she was crushing it.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I seem to remember an interview with Jan Shutan (Starlog maybe?) where she expressed how she felt self conscious in the uniform because she felt her thighs were fat. I remember thinking she was nuts and looked gorgeous. She really rocked the Star Trek look and had those "Meg Foster" kinda eyes.

 

[dupersuper]

In extent I have long been pissed with the rationalization Star Trek Continues used in “Embrace The Winds” that women could not command ships in Starfleet simply because the Tellerites were chauvinistic pigs. What a steaming pile of crap.

I always just interpreted that as Tellerites blocking female captains from the prestigious constitution class starships, and no one below the admiralty (Commodorship?) realizing until it came to a head with Garrett. I'm sure there were female captains aplenty in Starfleet in general.

I prefer to think that if you were to have the con you would need "pilot" training and Uhura for some reason hadn't had it/wasn't interested in it.

Didn't Uhura take the helm in one episode?

 

[Warped9]

I always just interpreted that as Tellerites blocking female captains from the prestigious constitution class starships, and no one below the admiralty (Commodorship?) realizing until it came to a head with Garrett. I'm sure there were female captains aplenty in Starfleet in general.

I don’t buy that rationalization. It presupposes that no one could imagine a woman rising to command Constitution-class vessel. Thats still discrimination.

 

[dupersuper]

I don’t buy that rationalization. It presupposes that no one could imagine a woman rising to command Constitution-class vessel. Thats still discrimination.

To me it implies such sexism is so unusual to Starfleet officers that it honestly didn't register with them that all the captains of the 14 or so ships of the premier ship class were the same gender until assigning a woman brought the sexists among the Tellerite representatives out of the woodwork. Though I do admit that this is a rationalization on my part as I like Star Trek Continues.

 

[diankra]

I'm sure there was hesitation to put Uhura in command because of her gender. Race? Nah. Gene Coon had a wonderful relationship with his secretary, Ande, who was black. Stan Robertson, the NBC program manager for the first two seasons was black. Gene Roddenberry had an affair with Nichelle prior to the series. Finally, from what I understand, Bob Justman's wife Jackie was black. There was no racism on the set of Star Trek and no effort to "keep the black woman down."

Sexism? Probably.

As for Uhura's command gold in her first two appearances, you can bet that change was to add more color on the set and, quite frankly, the red went far better with Nichelle's skin tone. Of the three colors, gold never looked quite as attractive to me on the ladies as red and blue.

My simple thought is that in Corbomite Maunevor there are too many people in gold (green). Once Uhura is in red the regulars are two gold, two blue, two red, plus a guest.

 

[Commishsleer]

I always just interpreted that as Tellerites blocking female captains from the prestigious constitution class starships, and no one below the admiralty (Commodorship?) realizing until it came to a head with Garrett. I'm sure there were female captains aplenty in Starfleet in general.



Didn't Uhura take the helm in one episode?

I mean that while she can pilot the ship or take any other position she is qualified for perhaps only the people who took the test and pass that Captain Merrick failed are the only ones who can take command of the ship unless there's an emergency. So Kirk. Spock, Scotty, Chekov, Sulu, others,

I actually think Communications is an important position. They should be involved in working out treaties, legal stuff etc. I think that was what Uhura was doing in Mirror Mirror and the silver bikini episode before the landing parties were waylaid. I think Spock sometimes took this role when it was too dangerous or they had the sexist Friday's Child natives. .

 

[Pauln6]

I mean that while she can pilot the ship or take any other position she is qualified for perhaps only the people who took the test and pass that Captain Merrick failed are the only ones who can take command of the ship unless there's an emergency. So Kirk. Spock, Scotty, Chekov, Sulu, others,

I actually think Communications is an important position. They should be involved in working out treaties, legal stuff etc. I think that was what Uhura was doing in Mirror Mirror and the silver bikini episode before the landing parties were waylaid. I think Spock sometimes took this role when it was too dangerous or they had the sexist Friday's Child natives. .

All officers have command training. All officers are trained on all ship's systems. Making Troi seem inept in Disaster was a significant misstep. She could have sought advice without seeming incompetent. Even Rand, a petty officer, and chief DiFalco were trained to fly the ship. Or McCoy helping Spock modify a torpedo in STVI.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Well, I guess, but really I think Uhura was just there to record it on her tricorder. Actually, landing party assignments were usually based on the needs of the plot. Uhura needed to be in the episode, so she was on planet. Scotty and McCoy same. These were the oddest people to be in on a mining treating mission.

Same with The Gamesters of Triskelion. Why were Kirk, Chekov and Uhura needed to check out the automated station at the start of the episode? Because the staff wanted them in the story and George was filming The Green Berets.

Post series stories made Uhura's role greater than it was. As far as TOS was concerned, she was the switchboard operator who had a few other skills and could hop onto the pilot's seat in a pinch (so did Janice Rand). It's to Nichelle's credit that she made a much larger impact.

 

[Mytran]

Why were Kirk, Chekov and Uhura needed to check out the automated station at the start of the episode? Because the staff wanted them in the story

That's covered in the first line of the episode:

Captain's log, stardate 3211.7. We are entering standard orbit about Gamma Two, an uninhabited planetoid with an automatic communications and astrogation station. ​

Uhura is there for the communications systems, Chekov is there for the astrogation facilties.
It may be a thin justification but it's undoubtedly there.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Thanks, that's what I get for not checking the transcripts before shooting off my....fingers.

 

[Henoch]

That's covered in the first line of the episode:

Captain's log, stardate 3211.7. We are entering standard orbit about Gamma Two, an uninhabited planetoid with an automatic communications and astrogation station. ​

Uhura is there for the communications systems, Chekov is there for the astrogation facilties.
It may be a thin justification but it's undoubtedly there.

So, why was Kirk there?

 

[JonnyQuest037]

So, why was Kirk there?

Because it's a landing party. He's on 95% of them.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Because it's a landing party. He's on 95% of them.

When you're on a long deep-space deployment, getting off the ship is a privilege, and Kirk seldom passes up his chances. He didn't want to go in "Shore Leave," for reasons of self-denial, but that episode must have smacked some sense into him. After that, he wanted to get out and live a little.

 

[Neopeius]

Yeah, not sure why but the gold uniform never looked good on women. Maybe it was the design, the material or lighting but it looked inferior and ill fitting compared to the blue and the red,

I though it went well with some people. For instance, this unnamed officer looked better in yellow than in blue:

And I think this officer is well suited to yellow:

Regarding Uhura's place in the command structure,

1) She is the senior woman officer on the Enterprise in "The Lorelei Signal"
2) She is a department head (Communications) as indicated by her attendance at some of the briefings that are implicitly department head briefings.

I would have said that her experience as a navigator is also suggestive, but Yeoman Rand takes the helm at one point.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

When you're on a long deep-space deployment, getting off the ship is a privilege, and Kirk seldom passes up his chances. He didn't want to go in "Shore Leave," for reasons of self-denial, but that episode must have smacked some sense into him. After that, he wanted to get out and live a little.

But "Shore Leave" didn't mark any change in his behavior. Kirk goes on landing parties and boarding parties in almost every episode before "Shore Leave."

"Where No Man Has Gone Before" - He goes down to Delta Vega to oversee the operation of imprisoning Gary Mitchell there.
"The Corbomite Maneuver" - He beams over to Balok's ship at the end.
"Mudd's Women" - He beams down to the planet to negotiate with the miners.
"The Enemy Within" - He's on the landing at party at the beginning of the episode.
"The Man Trap" - He beams down to meet with Dr. Crater, and returns to the planet later in the episode.
"What Are Little Girls Made Of?" - He beams down with Nurse Chapel and a couple security guards.
"Dagger of the Mind" - He beams down with Dr. Helen Noel to personally inspect the Tantalus Colony.
"Miri" - Leading the landing party on the planet.
"The Conscience of the King" - Beams down to meet with Thomas Leighton.
"Court Martial" - Beams over to Starbase 11 for debriefing and the court martial.
"The Menagerie" - Beams down to Starbase 11 to meet with Commodore Mendez.

That's 11 out of the first 16 episodes. No one ever says anything about how the Captain shouldn't be beaming down, or how a special exception is being made in this case. Kirk beamed down because that was just how things were done in his era. Kirk didn't want to go down to the planet in "Shore Leave" because he's a workaholic, not because he didn't typically beam down.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I though it went well with some people. For instance, this unnamed officer looked better in yellow than in blue:

And I think this officer is well suited to yellow:

Regarding Uhura's place in the command structure,

1) She is the senior woman officer on the Enterprise in "The Lorelei Signal"
2) She is a department head (Communications) as indicated by her attendance at some of the briefings that are implicitly department head briefings.

I would have said that her experience as a navigator is also suggestive, but Yeoman Rand takes the helm at one point.

The gold looks ill fitting to me on both actresses. The blue slightly less so on the one actress. I assume they didn't really spend time fitting the costume to the actor with background characters. Guest stars usually looked better in their costumes. Not to many guest stars in gold, though. The widowed bride in BOT is the only one who comes to mind. Not sure if Lt. Rahda from a latter episode counts as a guest star. But she was a gold skirt.

 

[Commishsleer]

All officers have command training. All officers are trained on all ship's systems. Making Troi seem inept in Disaster was a significant misstep. She could have sought advice without seeming incompetent. Even Rand, a petty officer, and chief DiFalco were trained to fly the ship. Or McCoy helping Spock modify a torpedo in STVI.

Are they all trained in command in TOS? I doubt McCoy or MBenga is or most of the female office guest stars - I'd say Marla McGivers wasn't or the guy who stabbed himself in "the Naked Time". I just don't believe a surgeon would have the time to learn all the command protocols. Perhaps in TNG were systems were presumably more automated, the quartermaster or head of sanitation could take over perhaps. .

 

[Pauln6]

Are they all trained in command in TOS? I doubt McCoy or MBenga is or most of the female office guest stars - I'd say Marla McGivers wasn't or the guy who stabbed himself in "the Naked Now". I just don't believe a surgeon would have the time to learn all the command protocols. Perhaps in TNG were systems were presumably more automated, the quartermaster or head of sanitation could take over perhaps. .

You can't become an officer without command training. Of course, that doesn't mean you use it often enough to stay on track.