Matrix Revolutions--Holy CRAP
- Thread starter Professor Zoom
- Start date
The ending of LOST wasn't universally hated. Some people loved it, while some hated it. It was very controversial, but it wasn't panned by nearly all of its fans like Revolutions.
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
Would you also sell your copy of Titanic?
Look, I can certainly see why you would be frustrated ... but the fact of the matter is they pulled a long con on everyone. The show was never about those mysteries; it was never about the Others or Dharma or the island. They were Macguffins. I thought it was an exceptional finale; beautifully done and very satisfying. It didn't close off every avenue or answer every question and I think the path they chose was really the best one they could have -- leave it ambiguous because they'd never be able to answer every question to every fan's satisfaction.
Which is entirely beside the point that again, the show was never about that. It wasn't about being lost on a faraway island in the middle of nowhere; It was about how the characters were lost emotionally, personally and in their own lives, aimless and unhappy, and the finale showed us how they resolved that particular issue. The big lesson to be learned is simply "no man is an island." The same way Angel sums up the mission statement of his own series, Christian Shephard did same.
It sounds like you were looking for more direct, literal resolution to the plot arcs on the show; I'm sorry you didn't get that but to me those were less meaningful than the actual resolution they gave us, and why I agree with RoJoHen that it's likely the best series finale I've ever seen.
I've never been impressed with criticisms of the sequel. (Matrix Reloaded/Matrix Revolutions is one movie in two parts. It doesn't even have a break in the action!) The problem with the critics is that they all start off with the premise that The Matrix, the first movie, is really good.
Think about it. The first movie focuses on Neo, played by Keanu Reeves, and ends when he suddenly turns into God, or at least the Messiah, for no apparent reason except otherwise he'd be dead. It is an article of faith that Keanu Reeves is the most godawful actor on the face of the Earth, from prehistory to the posthuman epoch. Yet the sequels, which have less Reeves, are widely hated. There's something wacky going on. But it's not drama criticism.
Think about it. The first movie focuses on Neo, played by Keanu Reeves, and ends when he suddenly turns into God, or at least the Messiah, for no apparent reason except otherwise he'd be dead. It is an article of faith that Keanu Reeves is the most godawful actor on the face of the Earth, from prehistory to the posthuman epoch. Yet the sequels, which have less Reeves, are widely hated. There's something wacky going on. But it's not drama criticism.
I loved the first movie and consider it a modern classic. I don't see it as "pseudo-philosophical BS" either. It was a good take on man's quest for enlightenment and/or escape from bondage. It's one of the few movies out there that has a lot of style and a lot of substance, but it looks like for some people, the style detracted from the substance.
The last two movies, I didn't like. They were actually a single 5-hour movie cut into two parts and didn't add much of anything to a story that was already told. The only other part of the franchise I liked were the Animatrix shorts. Now those really added something by either providing a bit of background, or by simply telling a few interesting tales about the world that was created in the original movie.
About Lost's finale... I agree with Trekker. It had some good ideas in there and I did enjoy it when I saw it, but they did spend six seasons building up a mythology only to drop the the ball. I don't see it as a propper ending anyway. I prefer it when the mythology gets some closure along with the characters. With Lost, one character got some emotional closure, while pretty much everything else was left up in the air with the potential for more story to be told. I still think of Lost as a great show on the whole though, as well as one of my all-time favorites.
About RoJoHen's avatar... Love the Col. Tigh pumpkin.
The last two movies, I didn't like. They were actually a single 5-hour movie cut into two parts and didn't add much of anything to a story that was already told. The only other part of the franchise I liked were the Animatrix shorts. Now those really added something by either providing a bit of background, or by simply telling a few interesting tales about the world that was created in the original movie.
About Lost's finale... I agree with Trekker. It had some good ideas in there and I did enjoy it when I saw it, but they did spend six seasons building up a mythology only to drop the the ball. I don't see it as a propper ending anyway. I prefer it when the mythology gets some closure along with the characters. With Lost, one character got some emotional closure, while pretty much everything else was left up in the air with the potential for more story to be told. I still think of Lost as a great show on the whole though, as well as one of my all-time favorites.
About RoJoHen's avatar... Love the Col. Tigh pumpkin.
Noooo.... Because I have no issues with that movie.
Thus the crux of my problems with the show.
Then why did they spend the bulk of three or four seasons around those "MacGuffins?" Watch those first few seasons with all of the stuff going on, pressing the button, The Others, the smoke monster, etc. and it was all a MacGuffin to tug at my heart strings? So the movie cock-teased me for five seasons and then decided to just lay there and talk rather than making with the goods? That's pretty much the definition of bullshit.
On your first point: I admit the finale was well made and tugged at the heart strings and all of that but it didn't satisfy me because that's not why I got into the show. I got into the show because of the WTF?!-ness of it. The radio transmission we hear at the end of E1x01 when they hear the transmission and Charley says "Where are we?" I wasn't wondering what emotional changes, challenges, and hurdles these people were going through in their lives or what they needed to accomplish. I was wondering what the heck was going on on the island?! What was with the monster? The transmission, etc. And while some of the questions were, sort-of, answered it didn't answer all of them in satisfactory manner. They pretty much said, "Well, we posed too much crap, can't answer any or all of it so... Ooo look! Death and purgatory!"
It was well done and emotional, but it was satisfying to me as it didn't really resolve the stuff on why I got into the show. Frankly, during the show I was getting tired of the flashbacks/forwards/sideways/upways/roundaboutways/whateverways and just wanted them to stick to the damn island and get with the freaking answers!
Well, as I said, for the first couple of seasons they had a funny way of showing this was their intent. I think they could've still done this "lost in their lives" thing without this mysterious island nonsense. If they weren't going to really have a reason for the smoke monster, DHARMA, the hatches or any of that they should've just stuck with the "lost on island" thing, found a better way to drive the survival story there, and then still done all of this flashback nonsense. Because as it is they raised all these questions and, well, shrugged and said "Whaddayagonnado?" and waved it off.
I'll agree to disagree here. Best series finale? Perhaps from a standpoint of characters and emotion (I think TNG's series finale still ranks high with me) but from solving the six years of crap they built up? Nadda. Me saying/implying it was one of the worst is, perhaps, extreme and I'll admit that but the show just didn't resolve anything.
When the show was going people weren't wondering what was going to happen to Jack, why he was lost in life and "what it all meant." They were looking at screen-captures of that black-light-painted door in the bunker trying to figure out what all of it meant. They were analyzing what the mechanical/chain/and ticker-tape sounds of "Lostzilla" meant about it they were trying to figure out what the fuck was going on with the island!
Yeah, Jack had daddy issues that tortured his life, Sawyer had his own daddy/past issues, there was a love triangle and while we cared about the characters and what would happen to them most the focus, to me, seemed to be on The Island and what was going on. Now... we'll never know.
Well made show, the finale was emotionally deep and resonated but if they wanted the whole thing to be about the characters and their individual paths and "what it all meant" they should've done it without all of the Island bullshit.
About RoJoHen's avatar... Love the Col. Tigh pumpkin.
That's not Tigh. If you check out the name of the avatar, it says Pirate.
That's what got me into the show as well.
That's a good point. We spent six years discussing every mystery and detail, then suddenly everyone says they never cared about that stuff and that it was about the characters the whole time.
I'm still calling it "Col. Tigh".About RoJoHen's avatar... Love the Col. Tigh pumpkin.
That's not Tigh. If you check out the name of the avatar, it says Pirate.
That's what I think of whenever I see it.
For what it's worth, I'm one of those that fell in love with LOST because of its character work and bemoaned the obvious shift away from character-driven to plot-driven episodes as the series progressed. It's final season was a mess, too. But I still contend that the mystery of the Island -- the mystery that pulled in so many viewers -- would have meant almost nothing if the audience wasn't invested in the characters to begin with, an investment that was explicitly made by the first season of the series. The Matrix, while it did some work with character, certainly didn't make character as high of a priority as LOST.
And that's where LOST and The Matrix differ as stories.
Indeed. Every. Single. Detail of that show was examined and picked over. That black-light blast door was screen captutred, poured over, altered, detailed and scrutinized to no end! Looking at the four-toed statue, the symbols on the flip-timer inside the hatch (the ones that appeared when the clock got to 0 but before things went to complete hell.) And now no one cares?! I'm blowing a whistle, throwing a flag down and calling "Bullshit."
That stuff was poured over, analyzed and just... ugh. But, nope, it was the characters and the emotion. Screw all that mystery and intrigue they built up for four fucking seasons before turning more to the characters.
It IS really good. It's a really good action flick. That's it. It uses a very classic story in a very exciting package. The hero's journey.
No, like all hero's journey pictures, Neo discovers the power within. In ALL of those movies there's either a death and resurrection, or a spiritual death and resurrection.
He becomes the hero he was always meant to be. And he brings a boon of knowledge... blah blah blah.
It's a good movie telling a classic story in this day of the internet, where the hacker wins.
Reeves IS a horrible actor, but his absence was a positive or a negative for the sequels.
The problem is there was no more story to tell.
Not going to lie, I sort of fall into the same group. My feelings about it sort of mimic my feelings on BSG. I spent years thinking there was a plan. Much to my disappointment, there was never really a plan. While entertaining I feel as if I never got a payoff...aka, I was blue-balled
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
I won't try to pretend I wasn't also one of those people who wanted answers to the mysteries or had theories about what was going on. I was. We all were. To claim otherwise is insincere and stupid.
But what I'm saying is for me, once it became clear what the writers were doing with the show in the finale -- that speech Christian gives, and the realization of what it all means -- that mindfuck, as it were, made it worthwhile. Not just because I 'got it' but because the message really was more important than any answers about polar bears, blast doors, and time travel.
I mean, the idea that we'll be reunited with the people who were the most important to us in our lives after we die, (the same message from the end of Titanic, Trekker, which is why I asked you about that DVD) was worth it to me.
Maybe because I've had several friends die in the last few years and have lost others who were important to me in other ways as well, the pseudo-Buddhist take on these characters, their lives and what ultimately happened to them makes it much more meaningful to me. I don't know. Whatever the case, I'll just paraphrase John Locke and say that "I hope someone does for you what that finale did for me."
But what I'm saying is for me, once it became clear what the writers were doing with the show in the finale -- that speech Christian gives, and the realization of what it all means -- that mindfuck, as it were, made it worthwhile. Not just because I 'got it' but because the message really was more important than any answers about polar bears, blast doors, and time travel.
I mean, the idea that we'll be reunited with the people who were the most important to us in our lives after we die, (the same message from the end of Titanic, Trekker, which is why I asked you about that DVD) was worth it to me.
Maybe because I've had several friends die in the last few years and have lost others who were important to me in other ways as well, the pseudo-Buddhist take on these characters, their lives and what ultimately happened to them makes it much more meaningful to me. I don't know. Whatever the case, I'll just paraphrase John Locke and say that "I hope someone does for you what that finale did for me."
Stupid Rose, the only person important to her was some guy she knew for a week eighty years ago and not her freaking husband and father of her children?!
Maybe because I've had several friends die in the last few years and have lost others who were important to me in other ways as well, the pseudo-Buddhist take on these characters, their lives and what ultimately happened to them makes it much more meaningful to me. I don't know. Whatever the case, I'll just paraphrase John Locke and say that "I hope someone does for you what that finale did for me."
I'm sorry for the losses you've suffered in the past, 00. I've yet to suffer any real, deep, and meaningful loss so maybe I'm just blissfully ignorant in that regard. But, again, while the Lost finale was touching in all the ways you said I was still disappointed in them shrugging off the several seasons worth of intrigue and questions they built up. I felt ripped off and asked myself why I've been so involved with the show for so long. Good ending on the character end but it still pissed me off.
I'm afraid The Sopranos is going to do the same damn thing to me.
I stopped watching Lost after only a few episodes because I knew they wouldn't resolve these mysteries. Too bad I didn't tell anyone because now I could say "I told you so." and get a kick out of that.
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
Yes, sadly you'll be relegated to your pointless gloating here.
This should be the forum description for TNZ.